Amazon Marketplace not worth the hassle - Update: I was wrong, read the entire thread...

[mrSHEiK124]

Normally I'd only expect this shit from eBay users, since they rank below BB.com Misc posters but above 4chan users in the Internet cesspool.

This is a Biology textbook.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321543254/

It comes shrinkwrapped with an access code to "MasteringBiology", which the publisher sells alone on their website for $90. I listed two of them, with the following description:

STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY. This includes the E-BOOK. YES, this includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook + study material. BRAND NEW NEVER USED. COSTS $90+ NEW!!!

I made it very fucking clear that that does not in any way shape or form include a hardcover text book. People selling new copies of the book frequently indicate that they are not selling the student access kit, I did the opposite. The MasteringBiology kit is basically the e-book, and college bookstores don't buy them back. I paid my friends $20 for them to sell them at $60 on Amazon, netting me about $30 after fees and my friends $20. I now have a dolt raiding my inbox with large amounts of stupid:

Hello from Amazon.com.

The buyer of the following order has sent you a message. Please respond to the individual directly by replying to this e-mail. For your reference, the buyer's e-mail address is removed.

Order ID:
* 1 of Biology with MasteringBiology (8th Edition) (MasteringBiology Series)

Important Notice: Only ship to the address shown in your seller account. Do not honor buyer requests to ship orders to any address other than the one provided by Amazon.com. Do not accept any payment method other than Amazon Payments. Payment for the sale may be withheld if these guidelines are not followed.

-------------- Begin message ---------------------

Hi,

On Tuesday I recieved a Mastering Biology CD package. I ordered the Biology book as well and I am wondering when it will arrive.

Please respond back to me as soon as possible.

Thanks,
Moron

-------------- End message ------------------------

Notice: Amazon.com may retain copies of all forwarded e-mails, and takes no responsibility and assumes no liability for the content of any messages forwarded to you.

Amazon.com will never e-mail you and ask you to disclose or verify your Amazon.com password, credit card, or banking account number. If you receive a suspicious e-mail with a link to update your account information, do not click on the link--instead report the e-mail to Amazon.com for investigation. Go to amazon.com/phish to find out more.

Reply from me:

Hi Moron,

The item description read as follows, I've put the important parts in bold for you:

"STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY. This includes the E-BOOK. YES, this includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook + study material. BRAND NEW NEVER USED. COSTS $90+ NEW!!!"

I'm sorry if you thought otherwise, but that clearly does not include the textbook. It was an unused MasteringBiology Student Access Kit, which is sold for $90+tax from the publisher's website.

Thanks, moi

Reply from moron:

Hi.



I have copied what it says I ordered from the Amazon.com website below:



Items Ordered


Price

1 of: Biology with MasteringBiology? (8th Edition) (MasteringBiology Series) [Hardcover] (please note HARD COVER)
By: Neil A. Campbell, Jane B. Reece




I think hardcover clearly implies a book.



Thank you.

Moron

Reply from me:

Hello again,

That is simply the name of the Amazon item under which my Marketplace listing was located.

I've attached a screenshot of what I am talking about [the screenshot is the New marketplace listings for that book, with the "Comments" field highlighted], that is where the text I cited in the last e-mail was located. The Student Access Kit (MasteringBiology) is a part of the regular package under which the hardcover textbook is regularly sold in bookstores. One of the listings I highlighted in the screenshot indicates it may not come with the "online supplements," and I would also consider it unreasonable for the buyer to expect them in that scenario since the listing clearly indicates the supplements are not included.

My listing on the other hand, clearly says that it is the Student Access Kit / MasteringBiology ONLY.

"STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY. This includes the E-BOOK. YES, this includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook + study material. BRAND NEW NEVER USED. COSTS $90+ NEW!!!"

The statement was written clearly, and nearly entirely in capital letters to make sure buyers were not confused. I am certain that if you were to take this up with Amazon and forward them this correspondence, the final result would be in my favor.

I've sold two of the same listing (you were the second) and I've yet to receive any complaints. I am not to be held responsible for your negligence in checking the listing.

Thanks, moi

 

[rudeguy]

TL;DR

 

[mrSHEiK124]

What should I do?

Also, the quadruple line breaks in the reply were there in the Moron's original e-mail. I'm guessing Amazon's "Contact Seller" filtered them out the first time around.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: NSFW
TL;DR

Damn it, I've been using TL;DR all this time and I never thought it'd be used against me

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: NSFW
TL;DR

Damn it, I've been using TL;DR all this time and I never thought it'd be used against me

Karma

Without reading a word of your thread, my advice is to cut your losses and move on.

 

[KevinCU]

Cliffs?

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: NSFW
TL;DR

Damn it, I've been using TL;DR all this time and I never thought it'd be used against me

Karma

Without reading a word of your thread, my advice is to cut your losses and move on.

I don't think Moron can initiate a refund. Moron's first e-mail is damning enough, "I RECEIVED A STUDENT ACCESS KIT ON TUESDAY." Then you fucking got what you bought from me and I've fulfilled my end of shit.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Cliffs:

I list part of the regular textbook package under the textbook listing. It's a new access kit for the online supplements, which include the e-book. Bookstores don't buy them back.
My listing indicates that clearly.
I sell many, Profit actually comes before ... this time
...
Everyone is happy
One moron comes out of the woodwork trying to get a hardcover textbook out of me.

 

[KevinCU]

Yeah, I can see how he got that impression. However, it's tough shit for him. You're in the right.

 

[aphex]

I think your screwed in this case. Since you listed the item under the textbook itself, under the Amazon A-Z guarantee I think they would side with the buyer unfortunately.

To be honest though, you never explicitly said it didn't include the textbook. You said "STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY. This includes the E-BOOK. YES, this includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook + study material. BRAND NEW NEVER USED. COSTS $90+ NEW!!!" You just said it includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook, includes can be interpreted to mean that it includes the ebook IN ADDITION to the hardcover.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. Saying 'Includes' doesn't necessarily imply that something is 'Excluded'.

 

[Maetryx]

It probably depends on Amazon's policy on listing items for sale under a link for a hardcover book that are not in fact that hardcover book.

 

[DaveSimmons]

You attached your sale to the printed, hardcover edition so I can see how someone would expect to get that.

You should have made it painfully clear with a first sentence something like:

Electronic version only, does NOT include the hardcover book.

Instead you have:

STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY

Which is not very clear to someone who hasn't seen the book and "student access kit" in person. Clear to you, having it in hand, not so clear to a book buyer.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Actually, based on what you posted, i don't think it was totally clear that this did not include the book. If all this is was the e-text and access code, why did you say it INCLUDES the e-book? You should have stated this is ONLY the e-book. Your post on Amazon may have been posted in a way that made it more clear, but if it really is just what you put here, you're iffy IMHO. You are relying on the buying knowing and understanding that the Student Access Kit is ONLY the e-book and code., and not the book, e-book and code. I for one do not know that and expecting the average buyer to know that distinction is what got you in this mess.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: aphex
I think your screwed in this case. Since you listed the item under the textbook itself, under the Amazon A-Z guarantee I think they would side with the buyer unfortunately.

To be honest though, you never explicitly said it didn't include the textbook. You said "STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY. This includes the E-BOOK. YES, this includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook + study material. BRAND NEW NEVER USED. COSTS $90+ NEW!!!" You just said it includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook, includes can be interpreted to mean that it includes the ebook IN ADDITION to the hardcover.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. Saying 'Includes' doesn't necessarily imply that something is 'Excluded'.

Yes, but saying "ONLY" implies exclusion of everything else.

Originally posted by: Maetryx
It probably depends on Amazon's policy on listing items for sale under a link for a hardcover book that are not in fact that hardcover book.

But it is in fact "part" of that hardcover book in the sense that it comes attached to the back cover. If a listing can say does or does not include MasteringBiology, why can't I say "MasteringBiology ONLY."

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You attached your sale to the printed, hardcover edition so I can see how someone would expect to get that.

You should have made it painfully clear with a first sentence something like:

Electronic version only, does NOT include the hardcover book.

Instead you have:

STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY

Which is not very clear to someone who hasn't seen the book and "student access kit" in person. Clear to you, having it in hand, not so clear to a book buyer.

Fuck, hindsight is 20/20. The other buyer (I sold another one before) knew what they were buying. I've saved some $$$ buying books on Amazon this way (buying the online supplements only).

 

[frostedflakes]

I think it was kind of stupid to list the eBook on the page for the hardback. You should have expected that somebody wouldn't read the description and end up buying your item under the assumption it was the hardback.

Does Amazon offer any mediation in matters like this, or do they leave it to the buyer/seller/3rd parties to take care of? I'd think they would side with the buyer since you listed the eBook in the wrong place, but who knows. I'd just cut my losses and have the buyer ship it back, then refund him. Next time list it on eBay.

 

[Jeff7]

I'm going with what Aphex said.

STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY. This includes the E-BOOK. YES, this includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook + study material. BRAND NEW NEVER USED. COSTS $90+ NEW!!!

"Includes" an electronic copy - this says to me that you get the listed (hardcover) book WITH the electronic copy.

If you'd say, "This IS the e-book (electronic) only, no hardcopy is included," then that would tell me that I should expect a CD and nothing more.

Saying, "Includes an electronic copy" tells me that I will receive a book and a CD.


I'll vote that the OP is in the wrong for an incorrectly-worded description.


Possible ownage of the year material here?
Quoted, just in case.

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
Normally I'd only expect this shit from eBay users, since they rank below BB.com Misc posters but above 4chan users in the Internet cesspool.

This is a Biology textbook.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321543254/

It comes shrinkwrapped with an access code to "MasteringBiology", which the publisher sells alone on their website for $90. I listed two of them, with the following description:

STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY. This includes the E-BOOK. YES, this includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook + study material. BRAND NEW NEVER USED. COSTS $90+ NEW!!!

I made it very fucking clear that that does not in any way shape or form include a hardcover text book. People selling new copies of the book frequently indicate that they are not selling the student access kit, I did the opposite. The MasteringBiology kit is basically the e-book, and college bookstores don't buy them back. I paid my friends $20 for them to sell them at $60 on Amazon, netting me about $30 after fees and my friends $20. I now have a dolt raiding my inbox with large amounts of stupid:

Hello from Amazon.com.

The buyer of the following order has sent you a message. Please respond to the individual directly by replying to this e-mail. For your reference, the buyer's e-mail address is removed.

Order ID:
* 1 of Biology with MasteringBiology (8th Edition) (MasteringBiology Series)

Important Notice: Only ship to the address shown in your seller account. Do not honor buyer requests to ship orders to any address other than the one provided by Amazon.com. Do not accept any payment method other than Amazon Payments. Payment for the sale may be withheld if these guidelines are not followed.

-------------- Begin message ---------------------

Hi,

On Tuesday I recieved a Mastering Biology CD package. I ordered the Biology book as well and I am wondering when it will arrive.

Please respond back to me as soon as possible.

Thanks,
Moron

-------------- End message ------------------------

Notice: Amazon.com may retain copies of all forwarded e-mails, and takes no responsibility and assumes no liability for the content of any messages forwarded to you.

Amazon.com will never e-mail you and ask you to disclose or verify your Amazon.com password, credit card, or banking account number. If you receive a suspicious e-mail with a link to update your account information, do not click on the link--instead report the e-mail to Amazon.com for investigation. Go to amazon.com/phish to find out more.

Reply from me:

Hi Moron,

The item description read as follows, I've put the important parts in bold for you:

"STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY. This includes the E-BOOK. YES, this includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook + study material. BRAND NEW NEVER USED. COSTS $90+ NEW!!!"

I'm sorry if you thought otherwise, but that clearly does not include the textbook. It was an unused MasteringBiology Student Access Kit, which is sold for $90+tax from the publisher's website.

Thanks, moi

Reply from moron:

Hi.



I have copied what it says I ordered from the Amazon.com website below:



Items Ordered


Price

1 of: Biology with MasteringBiology? (8th Edition) (MasteringBiology Series) [Hardcover] (please note HARD COVER)
By: Neil A. Campbell, Jane B. Reece




I think hardcover clearly implies a book.



Thank you.

Moron

Reply from me:

Hello again,

That is simply the name of the Amazon item under which my Marketplace listing was located.

I've attached a screenshot of what I am talking about [the screenshot is the New marketplace listings for that book, with the "Comments" field highlighted], that is where the text I cited in the last e-mail was located. The Student Access Kit (MasteringBiology) is a part of the regular package under which the hardcover textbook is regularly sold in bookstores. One of the listings I highlighted in the screenshot indicates it may not come with the "online supplements," and I would also consider it unreasonable for the buyer to expect them in that scenario since the listing clearly indicates the supplements are not included.

My listing on the other hand, clearly says that it is the Student Access Kit / MasteringBiology ONLY.

"STUDENT ACCESS KIT (MasteringBiology) ONLY. This includes the E-BOOK. YES, this includes an electronic copy of the entire textbook + study material. BRAND NEW NEVER USED. COSTS $90+ NEW!!!"

The statement was written clearly, and nearly entirely in capital letters to make sure buyers were not confused. I am certain that if you were to take this up with Amazon and forward them this correspondence, the final result would be in my favor.

I've sold two of the same listing (you were the second) and I've yet to receive any complaints. I am not to be held responsible for your negligence in checking the listing.

Thanks, moi

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

this is how you probably should have sold it

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-SEALED...p=TL090112122005r35034

 

[mrSHEiK124]

I said "STUDENT ACCESS KIT ONLY"

book =! student access kit

If they opened it/broke the seal then it's worthless to me anyways and in no way will I agree to refunding the purchase.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
I said "STUDENT ACCESS KIT ONLY"

book =! student access kit

If they opened it/broke the seal then it's worthless to me anyways and in no way will I agree to refunding the purchase.

Then you're just an asshole seller. It was as much your mistake if not more your mistake.

 

[darkxshade]

Just send him a copy of the hardcover book, throw in a free copy of how to interpret the English language and be done with it!

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: darkxshade
Just send him a copy of the hardcover book, throw in a free copy of how to interpret the English language and be done with it!

I don't have a copy of the hardcover book

 

[Brainonska511]

I think I'm going to stop selling on Amazon Marketplace, just because of the huge cut they take for themselves.

I actually got a book back in the mail marked "Return to Sender" by the USPS. Apparently, the moron I sold the book to never bothered to check their e-mail (for DC #), their mailbox (to see the USPS note(s) left behind), or live at their address (for the 3 delivery attempts made). I sold the book 12/6 and shipped it 12/7; I got the book back on ~1/8 and proceeded to sell it instead through my school's craiglist-like site. I ended up getting $20 more than on Amazon and just refunded the original buyer his money - shipping and fees Amazon would keep.

 

[lizardboy]

Originally posted by: aphex

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. Saying 'Includes' doesn't necessarily imply that something is 'Excluded'.

Exactly - you fail at describing.

Edit - the more I think about this, the more amazed I am at what a MORON you are. (I'll put the important words in ALL CAPS for YOU.) You can't repeatedly use the word "INCLUDES" and not expect people to be confused. Especially when "ONLY" (which is the linchpin upon which your entire defense rests) comes immediately after an odd little PARENTHETICAL. And not only do you manage to construct this POORLY WRITTEN description, then you come to ATOT to bash the buyers who were confused by your SHITTY-ASS WORD USAGE.

 

[AccruedExpenditure]

You're in the wrong you listed the product under the wrong ASIN.
-AE

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
I said "STUDENT ACCESS KIT ONLY"

book =! student access kit

If they opened it/broke the seal then it's worthless to me anyways and in no way will I agree to refunding the purchase.

I am not familiar with your product. If I go on amazon to find the Mastering Biology textbook and supplemental stuff, and I see under the textbook listing something that says it's the Student Access Kit, how do I know that doesn't include a hardcover textbook? I'm in the hardcover textbook section, there's nothing in the name that suggests it isn't a textbook, the amazon printout page explicitly says I will get a hardcover textbook, and nowhere in your description does it say that I won't get a hardcover textbook.

What is in a student access kit anyways? Is it so hard to believe that a student access kit in a hardcover textbook section on amazon would come with a hardcover textbook?

It includes an electronic copy? Sweet. I get an ebook along with my textbook.

You didn't do it on purpose, but you messed up. Nowhere did you say it didn't come with a hardcover copy, yet you sold it in the hardcover textbook section.

I'll put it another way:

You go to newegg.com for a new video card. You click on the video cards section, then list all the nVidia GTX 280 cards. You see EVGA has a "GTX 280 gaming starter kit". You click on this and it says: "GTX 280 gaming starter kit only. Includes extra heavy duty heatsink and fan". You buy it. The shopping cart says: "EVGA GTX 280 video card PCI-X". You pay your money.

A few days later you get a pamphlet, a heatsink, a fan, some thermal grease and that's it.

Would you be pissed? It makes sense that a gaming starter kit would include a video card, especially if you found it in the video cards section of newegg, and certainly because the shopping cart confirmed it.

Again, you messed up. Eat your loss and refund the guy his money.

*disclaimer - I know little about current hardware. GTX 280, PCI-X, etc, are terms I pulled out of memory without looking them up. Bite me if they're not accurate.