Am I being too harsh? *edited a bit*

[slackerinabox]

So I was at a meeting discussing a new film I'm working on.. I started this film production group to create no-budget videos for the sake of making videos.. The heart of the project was to focus on the process and not the finished product (you gotta crawl before you run sorta mentality). A scene in the short that I wrote required posters.. I asked the producer to email everyone and ask them to donate some if possible... Eric, my friend for like 10 years and co-director, said that he'd just buy some posters... I resisted and told him that I don't want anyone to spend anything at all.. I put my foot down but, still, he was pissed and still insists that we should spend the money.. The other day I met with him and our producer to discuss another short- again, he said that he'd pick up a prop that we may have needed. Again, I explained that having a zero budget forces us to be creative instead of just spending money.. He doesn't seem to get it..

So I'm about to send this letter to him and our producer.. Is is too harsh?

Hey guys,
I just want to explain something and clear things up? We?re zero-budget not because I?m broke but because it?s part of our aesthetic and our project at this point. Now if I sound pretentious.. Fvck it, I am being pretentious. But sticking to our objective and keeping our integrity is what?s important to me? People have picked up on this and the response has been great? People want to give us money but by rejecting it I come of as committed and ambitious instead of a kid fvcking around with his mom?s camcorder.? Now instead of getting upset that I won?t let someone buy a certain costume or prop I suggest you put that money in a box somewhere and save it for when we really need the money. I?m tired of fighting over money in front of other crew members ? it simply won?t happen again?

 

[Toasthead]

nah i think yer right on. Its kind of hard to buy things and stick to a zero budget.

 

[Jzero]

The "truer artists" part is pretty silly, but if the point of the exercise is to make do with what you've got, then it's not unreasonable to ask people to not go buy stuff.

 

[jjones]

Pretentious prick.

BTW, I think you're right and not too harsh in your letter. If it's supposed to be a zero budget exercise then that's what it should be.

 

[poopaskoopa]

I didn't much care for the looking like truer artists part either. So... the objective is to make a short film with zero budget, and your buddy wants to spend money on it? WTF?

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: Jzero
The "truer artists" part is pretty silly, but if the point of the exercise is to make do with what you've got, then it's not unreasonable to ask people to not go buy stuff.

It sounds silly but by sticking to my guts people see that I'm not just a kid screwing around with a camcorder, know what I mean? I've gotten gigs to direct music videos and investors contacting me pased partly on my past work but mostly on my attitude.. It sounds pretentious but your attitude and integrity does make a difference.

 

[waylman]

Originally posted by: Jzero
The "truer artists" part is pretty silly, but if the point of the exercise is to make do with what you've got, then it's not unreasonable to ask people to not go buy stuff.

agreed. drop truer artists. and no need to say fvck it. in fact, drop the whole pretentious BS in there also.

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: waylman

Originally posted by: Jzero
The "truer artists" part is pretty silly, but if the point of the exercise is to make do with what you've got, then it's not unreasonable to ask people to not go buy stuff.

agreed. drop truer artists. and no need to say fvck it. in fact, drop the whole pretentious BS in there also.

I editted out the truer artists thing.. the pretentious things is in response to my friend calling me pretentious for getting upset.. I'm aware that it may seem pretentious but I'm explaining that I have deeper motives .

 

[slackerinabox]

I'm more worried about the "it won't happen again" line.. Now I'm not a push over and will tell someone to leave a set - I've done it and people know that I will do it again (I was a manager at an investment bank so I've had practice) but it's hard being so direct to a friend..Is it too harsh? Now I would prefer if he didn't volunteer at all - I hate mixing business with friendships.. Oh well..

 

[slackerinabox]

any other thoughts?

 

[poopaskoopa]

You don't need that last line.

 

[Viper GTS]

Perhaps you should learn to get along with people if you want to be a director.

How many threads is this now of you having issues with people you're supposed to be working with?

The common denominator is you.

Viper GTS

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Perhaps you should learn to get along with people if you want to be a director.

How many threads is this now of you having issues with people you're supposed to be working with?

The common denominator is you.

Viper GTS

Directing is not about group hugs and getting along with people... I'm working with exactly 63 people.. I've had problems with 4 of them... Having a problem with 1 out of 16 volunteers does not mean that I'm not willing to hear ideas or compromise...

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Perhaps you should learn to get along with people if you want to be a director.

How many threads is this now of you having issues with people you're supposed to be working with?

The common denominator is you.

Viper GTS

Directing is not about group hugs and getting along with people...

Of course not, but you'll have a much easier time getting what you want if you get along with people.

I said to work with people, not give handjobs.

Viper GTS

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Perhaps you should learn to get along with people if you want to be a director.

How many threads is this now of you having issues with people you're supposed to be working with?

The common denominator is you.

Viper GTS

Directing is not about group hugs and getting along with people...

Of course not, but you'll have a much easier time getting what you want if you get along with people.

I said to work with people, not give handjobs.

Viper GTS

If you were at a meeting or experienced how I work then your opinion about the way I interact with people would matter to me... I'm a total softy and listen to ideas and let everyone be as creative as they want to be.. In fact, I implore everyone to take extra shots and try things - that's why I book 9 hour shoots to film a 3 min long production.. I never stifle ideas...I stifle attitudes. It's up to a director and producer to set the guidelines (such as budget). If a crew member protests about how we RUN things (budget) then it's up to the producer to take action.

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Perhaps you should learn to get along with people if you want to be a director.

How many threads is this now of you having issues with people you're supposed to be working with?

The common denominator is you.

Viper GTS

I apologize for flaming you - who knows, maybe you thought that your comments were constructive.. And perhaps my threads give a false imression about what's really going on.. In the three or so weeks this project has been going on I've had 4 group meetings and all of them introduced me to some amazingly talented and hard working people. I've had personality conflicts with a handful of people and, yes, my response has been harsh.. But I've also made valuable connections and am developing my own style as a director.. yes, the politics/ etc. associated with a project of this scope is frustrating, but a few incidents do not mean that I do not know how to work with people. If you're around NYC than join us for a shoot - you'll see what I'm about

 

[pulse8]

No one will ever judge you on the process of making a film, but ONLY the final product.

If you're doing it for production experience, work on a professional production. This whole idea of zero-budget filmmaking is silly. It doesn't force you to be creative, it only causes bad production value.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: pulse8
No one will ever judge you on the process of making a film, but ONLY the final product.

If you're doing it for production experience, work on a professional production. This whole idea of zero-budget filmmaking is silly. It doesn't force you to be creative, it only causes bad production value.

That's not really true. For a great real-world example, compare the Star Wars IV to Star Wars I. In the beginning, Lucas did some amazing things on a shoestring budget because he was forced to innovate instead of just buying everything up.

I don't have much experience in film, but I have extensive experience in community theater where shoestring budgets are a way of life. Sure, it's cool to have an elaborate, professionally painted set, but that set could cost you your royalty payment for your next show if the turnout is bad. OTOH, making a great set just out of the stuff you have laying in storage could be the cost savings that produces your next show. It also helps you learn more skills and build a more cohesive team as they work together.

Learning to make do with what little you have is a great skill to learn.

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: pulse8
No one will ever judge you on the process of making a film, but ONLY the final product.

If you're doing it for production experience, work on a professional production. This whole idea of zero-budget filmmaking is silly. It doesn't force you to be creative, it only causes bad production value.

You're missing the point.. I've interned at a film studio, i've worked with many professional crews.. Over the years I must have served 300 cups of coffee and held countless light stands... Zero-budget filmmaking is not silly... Bad production values is the result of poor planning and laziness.. I've researches this and thought it over... You can film something three ways : 1) cheap and quick (final product looks cheap), 2) quick and expensive (the hollywood way) or 3) cheaply and deliberately, resulting in a superior product. Time is something I have a lot of.. Digital video allows us to reshoot a scene 20 times if we have to so we CAN deliver a good product for very little money.

Also, no one will be judging these shorts.. THey can be set on fire for all I care.. In 6 months to a year I'll be worried about both the process and the final product (when I submit shorts to film festivals). i'm using training wheels now,..

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: pulse8
No one will ever judge you on the process of making a film, but ONLY the final product.

If you're doing it for production experience, work on a professional production. This whole idea of zero-budget filmmaking is silly. It doesn't force you to be creative, it only causes bad production value.

That's not really true. For a great real-world example, compare the Star Wars IV to Star Wars I. In the beginning, Lucas did some amazing things on a shoestring budget because he was forced to innovate instead of just buying everything up.

I don't have much experience in film, but I have extensive experience in community theater where shoestring budgets are a way of life. Sure, it's cool to have an elaborate, professionally painted set, but that set could cost you your royalty payment for your next show if the turnout is bad. OTOH, making a great set just out of the stuff you have laying in storage could be the cost savings that produces your next show. It also helps you learn more skills and build a more cohesive team as they work together.

Learning to make do with what little you have is a great skill to learn.

I totally hear ya, man.. Also, if I have a stunning finished product that cost me say $10,000 to make (hypothetically)- it gives me a MAJOR edge in the eyes of investors to the guy who's equally competant film cost $100,000...

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: pulse8
No one will ever judge you on the process of making a film, but ONLY the final product.

If you're doing it for production experience, work on a professional production. This whole idea of zero-budget filmmaking is silly. It doesn't force you to be creative, it only causes bad production value.

Also, have you heard of El Mariachi, The Blairwitch Project, and Clerks? These three were all mediocre to good movies that were made famous more for the WAY (the process) that they were made than the actual films themselve.. Dogme95, neorealism, cinema verite.. All movements based on the process and not just the finished product..

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: pulse8
No one will ever judge you on the process of making a film, but ONLY the final product.

If you're doing it for production experience, work on a professional production. This whole idea of zero-budget filmmaking is silly. It doesn't force you to be creative, it only causes bad production value.

Also, have you heard of El Mariachi, The Blairwitch Project, and Clerks? These three were all mediocre to good movies that were made famous more for the WAY (the process) that they were made than the actual films themselve.. Dogme95, neorealism, cinema verite.. All movements based on the process and not just the finished product..

Pi?

 

[pulse8]

Learning to make do with what little you have is a great skill to learn.

But limiting yourself doesn't help.

I'm not saying that you can't do much with low budgets, what I'm saying is that it is silly to limit yourself to NO budget. I say don't make a box outside of the box you were just in. Creativity is not something that is forced it's something that you have.

I totally hear ya, man.. Also, if I have a stunning finished product that cost me say $10,000 to make (hypothetically)- it gives me a MAJOR edge in the eyes of investors to the guy who's equally competant film cost $100,000...

That's not necessarily true. It might just show that you'll work for peanuts or that you're not on the same level as someone who's doing $100,000 films.

It's harder to trust someone with $100,000 when they've never done something on that level before. There are exceptions, of course, but not everyone is a Kevin Smith. There are some who are the guys who made Blair Witch and then when given the chance to do something better, you make Blair Witch 2 which was horrible and made no money.

I just get the impression from your posts about this stuff that you're not trying to make quality product. You're just doing them for the sake of doing them. My point is that if you want to learn the process (which it seems you already know) then put it to good use and make a good product.

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: pulse8

Learning to make do with what little you have is a great skill to learn.

But limiting yourself doesn't help.

I'm not saying that you can't do much with low budgets, what I'm saying is that it is silly to limit yourself to NO budget. I say don't make a box outside of the box you were just in. Creativity is not something that is forced it's something that you have.

I totally hear ya, man.. Also, if I have a stunning finished product that cost me say $10,000 to make (hypothetically)- it gives me a MAJOR edge in the eyes of investors to the guy who's equally competant film cost $100,000...

That's not necessarily true. It might just show that you'll work for peanuts or that you're not on the same level as someone who's doing $100,000 films.

It's harder to trust someone with $100,000 when they've never done something on that level before. There are exceptions, of course, but not everyone is a Kevin Smith. There are some who are the guys who made Blair Witch and then when given the chance to do something better, you make Blair Witch 2 which was horrible and made no money.

I just get the impression from your posts about this stuff that you're not trying to make quality product. You're just doing them for the sake of doing them. My point is that if you want to learn the process (which it seems you already know) then put it to good use and make a good product.

I disagree with ya, man... I think Kevin Smith, Robert Rodriguez, and a few other people have strong careers based on their early career pinching every penny... You could have your philosophy and I can have mine, one is not more valid than another. If I'm offered $100,000,000 to make a movie I would do it and push my creativity even further with that budget..

Also, many artists believe that starving is what forces them to be creative... I had a job (at 19 mind you) that paid $80,000 a year... My creative output those 3 years? Zippo.. I'm broke, living with my parents, worrying about paying bills.. My creative output so far? 6 short films in the can, 9 in production in 7 months... Of course, there's a balance to be had...

p.s. I don't think of budgets when WRITING... I have a film written that would probably cost $50 million to make..
p.p.s. ed sanchez (the director of blair witch project did not have anything to do with the blair witch project 2- he's not to blame for it's suckiness

 

[pulse8]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: pulse8
No one will ever judge you on the process of making a film, but ONLY the final product.

If you're doing it for production experience, work on a professional production. This whole idea of zero-budget filmmaking is silly. It doesn't force you to be creative, it only causes bad production value.

Also, have you heard of El Mariachi, The Blairwitch Project, and Clerks? These three were all mediocre to good movies that were made famous more for the WAY (the process) that they were made than the actual films themselve.. Dogme95, neorealism, cinema verite.. All movements based on the process and not just the finished product..

Pi?

And how much money do the Dogme95 and such movies make? Do you plan on doing this for a living or for fun?

You mention those 4 movies (including Pi) and out of the millions of filmmakers and films in this country that get made there are only a handful that actually make it to that level. Most just live in obscurity. I'm not trying to put you down or say that you can't make it, I just get the impression that your approach is a little unrealistic.

There are always exceptions to every rule, but what you need to seriously ask yourself is if you're one of those exceptions. It's not impossible, but it is a huge longshot and I wish you the best of luck.

My creative output so far? 6 short films in the can, 9 in production in 7 months... Of course, there's a balance to be had...

But it's quality, not quantity and you've said yourself you don't plan on showing those to anyone. I can make 6 films this week if I really wanted to.