[allthingsd.com] AMD getting ready for another round of Layoffs

[ShintaiDK]

Granted we're all biased atm by all the news about AMD and intel's flawless execution past 6-7 years.


The question is - can anyone compete against Intel?
When will Intel make another p4?


Does Samsung have enough power to advance smaller nodes ?
Does IBM?

Is there a market for the foundry situation we have currently?


It's an exciting time - but even as a long time intel buyer i'm kinda worried this is going bad for the consumer very fast.
It takes time to change direction and turn the boat in the semiconductor industry.

Very long time.

Intel making another P4 wont affect them, unless the competition makes flawless execution and delivers perfect designs.

Samsung might, but Intels main competition node wise is TSMC.

IBM is gone long time ago.

Foundries needs to consolidate. Basicly the endgame is between Samsung, TSMC and Intel. And Samsung will give up first unless they radicaly change their business.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Consulting is a business.

I was a consultant for a while and there was a good reason why it made sense for me to be one, just as there was a good reason why it made sense for my customers to hire me as a consultant versus hiring me as a full-time employee.

In the specific situation that AMD is in, the consultant is getting paid to be the bad cop to internal managements good cop persona. Internal management has no choice but to let people go, even the good people, because they have a cash crunch coming and they must take drastic action to avoid catastrophe.

But internal management also has to retain confidence in the eyes and minds of the employees that aren't being let go. It is morale triage, attempting to keep the absolute worse from happening.

Consultants in this situation provide two benefits - limited liability (reduces claims of biased or prejudicial layoff selections) and filling in the role of the bad cop.

Just look at the response within this thread to the very concept of an external consultant being involved in providing guidance for the layoffs. People love to hate, and they just need a sacrificial lamb to vent that rage towards.

Downsizing consultants willingly let themselves become the scapegoats so that management can avoid taking that blunt force full salvo of anger and hurt from the employees that don't get let go - management needs them to still take direction and rally themselves to come in to work and actually get the work done.

The charade of the downsizing consultant fulfills the morale triage that is needed internally with employees, and the association of making downsizing decisions on the basis of external benchmarking and guidance provided by consultants fulfills the morale triage that is needed externally with shareholders and creditors who also need to have confidence that management is doing what it is doing because it needs to and not because it has no idea what it is doing.

That is true, especially as towards legal liability. But I think basically the same amount of bad feelings will be directed towards top management whether they do the "dirty work" themselves for just hire someone to do it. Someone who is fired will be angry at the consultant, but they and everyone else will know ultimately that top management of the company is responsible.

 

[Olikan]

Actually it is.
NVIDIA is out-competing Intel in the discrete GPU market..and in the GPGPU market.

What was your question again?

dude,
you asked me if nvidia does a better job at GPUs, and i said yes...

the problem is the long run, intel is finnaly putting money at igps...and no good this is to nvidia

 

[Nemesis 1]

Actually it is.
NVIDIA is out-competing Intel in the discrete GPU market..and in the GPGPU market.

What was your question again?

Your getting ahead of yourself . Intels Phi will more than likely be a hammer to NVs plans in that market . Will know more when Both Intel and Nv products come out . Intel PHi has already taken a chunk of this market and its not even released yet . So it must be pretty dam good than there is the x86 factor in that space . Lets not make a war out of a space none of us really care about .
I really thought NV blew it . Intel was looking for partners to use intels fabs for their products . NV should have been all over that , Intel taking NV on as a fab partner not sure they would be open to NV. I think maybe intel wanted Apples business

 

[ShintaiDK]

Your getting ahead of yourself . Intels Phi will more than likely be a hammer to NVs plans in that market . Will know more when Both Intel and Nv products come out . Intel PHi has already taken a chunk of this market and its not even released yet . So it must be pretty dam good than there is the x86 factor in that space . Lets not make a war out of a space none of us really care about .
I really thought NV blew it . Intel was looking for partners to use intels fabs for their products . NV should have been all over that , Intel taking NV on as a fab partner not sure they would be open to NV. I think maybe intel wanted Apples business

Intel would never open its fabs to competitors. Just look at who Intels opens it fabs for.

 

[Ferzerp]

IBM is gone long time ago.

No they aren't. They just aren't a player in the consumer space. In the enterprise space, their hardware is generally faster and more reliable (due to more RAS features), but at a price that only rarely justifies it.

 

[ShintaiDK]

No they aren't. They just aren't a player in the consumer space. In the enterprise space, their hardware is generally faster and more reliable (due to more RAS features), but at a price that only rarely justifies it.

Same place with Sparc and Itanium. But they are still a very small player. IBM earns its money on service contracts. And foundry wise they are a goner.

 

[pelov]

Intel would never open its fabs to competitors. Just look at who Intels opens it fabs for.

I have a feeling that might be Intel's biggest problem going forward. They're going to have a hell of a time trying to invest in their fabs when PC sales slump.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I have a feeling that might be Intel's biggest problem going forward. They're going to have a hell of a time trying to invest in their fabs when PC sales slump.

Answer is here:
http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23660312

And PC sales are still increasing...

 

[CHADBOGA]

You are clueless about GF.

It is owned by ATIC wich has almost unlimited cash at its disposal...

Yeah and even though they are meant to be investing money to make money, ATIC are going to throw that all away to win the hearts of some forum members.

 

[fleshconsumed]

We have a winner. It seems people want to hold on to AMD for the sake of holding on to it. Aka feelings getting involved and wrong assumptions in an illusion of competition and/or devotion to a company. But thats now how business works and its destructive to think that way.

In the shrinking discrete GPU market, there aint room for 2 players in the long run. Might not even be room for 1. In an ever more expensive CPU world there aint room for more players either in the endgame due to costs.

I don't think people want to hold on to AMD for old times sake. They want it to survive because it's the last competitor to intel on CPU side and it's the last competitor to nvidia on GPU side. Without AMD we will have intel/nvidia monopoly, and frankly, nobody wants that.

 

[pelov]

And PC sales are still increasing...

No...

As we reported earlier, IHS iSuppli forecast the PC market to have a 1.2 percent decline in 2012, which will be the first decline in 11 years. With the diversified of SSDs, its growth outlook has only decreased slightly, even with the ultrabook shipments being behind expectations and the sobering outlooks provided by Intel and AMD.

Q2 and Q3 have been worse than both Intel and AMD first thought.

It'll be interesting to see what Intel can do in the next 2ish years. If they finally wake up and realize that MS has left them and that relying on a single OS to drive your sales is idiotic, they might fair well.

 

[ShintaiDK]

No...

Q2 and Q3 have been worse than both Intel and AMD first thought.

It'll be interesting to see what Intel can do in the next 2ish years. If they finally wake up and realize that MS has left them and that relying on a single OS to drive your sales is idiotic, they might fair well.

Read the IDC again.

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23660312

You compare 3 months and not 12 months. Not to mention as IDC writes, OEMs are clearing Windows 7 stock before Windows 8 launch.

 

[pelov]

There's estimates and there's reality...yet you're pointing to the estimates as your proof and disregarding the ACTUAL sales? Sometimes, you make some good arguments. Other times, you seem to stick your head in the ground and blabber on about who knows what.

Both Q2 and Q3 have been very weak and Q4 is unlikely to change that. People are going to opt for another shiny tablet or convertible rather than a laptop or PC. Win8's useless-hybrid-looking-things may throw a wrench into that, but currently the OS hasn't exactly been receiving stellar reviews.

Anyway, that's my point: Intel needs to wake up and realize that depending on a decrepit MS isn't going to see them into the future. Apple's 10% is a very nice bump, but that won't last forever as Apple will look to unify under a single ISA/architecture. The faster Intel introduces Tizen on a proper device, the better.

 

[ShintaiDK]

So basicly you are saying IDC, that tracks all sales, is wrong and you are right? And its me with the head stuck in the ground and blabber about who knows what? Got it.

 

[pelov]

So basicly you are saying IDC is wrong and you are right? Got it.

No, I'm saying IDC is wrong and early next year they'll show that with their numbers. Over the last 2 quarters their numbers have been wrong, and that's not me "guessing"

It's one thing to look at the estimated sales figures at the beginning of the year, but when you're preferring the estimations over the actual number of sales... well then I don't know what to tell you other than that you're being delusional.

BTW, that same delusional mindset is why AMD is going to kick the bucket and Intel's shares have slipped over 20%. They can both drone on about how healthy the PC market is, but when you're investors aren't happy and you're sales figures are slipping, things aren't alright.

 

[ShintaiDK]

No, I'm saying IDC is wrong and early next year they'll show that with their numbers. Over the last 2 quarters their numbers have been wrong, and that's not me "guessing"

It's one thing to look at the estimated sales figures at the beginning of the year, but when you're preferring the estimations over the actual number of sales... well then I don't know what to tell you other than that you're being delusional.

I think you again are mixing quarters with full year. And IDC perfectly explains your Q3 numbes. Rememeber Q1 had growth of 1.9%(1.7mio units). And Q2 only slipped with 88K units. And we are right in front of an OS release that always trigger a slowdown before.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article...xpected-pc-sales-drop-windows-8-launch-144481

 

[pelov]

Yep. Definitely stellar endorsements

"The U.S. market will remain depressed until Windows 8 products hit the shelves in the fourth quarter of 2012. The industry is responding by reducing shipments of PCs and clearing Windows 7-based inventories to pave the way for a new generation of systems. But, as we move into the tail end of the third quarter, PC activity will continue to slow as demand drops. The third-quarter back to school season is also proving to be a challenging period, despite prices dropping to their lowest levels. We expect the year will end with shipments in the U.S. falling by 3.7%, marking the second consecutive year of contraction,” said David Daoud, research director, Personal Computing at IDC.

Like I said, if Intel is pinning their hopes on a horrendous Win8, they deserve to have their stock slip into catastrophic levels. When Microsoft goes ARM on some of its devices is when you know the marriage is over

 

[ShintaiDK]

Like I said, if Intel is pinning their hopes on a horrendous Win8, they deserve to have their stock slip into catastrophic levels. When Microsoft goes ARM on some of its devices is when you know the marriage is over

Oh the ARM fantasy was behind all along. That explains it.

 

[pelov]

Oh the ARM fantasy was behind all along. That explains it.

You don't need ARM to run a different operating system. I don't need to link you the Medfield phones, do I?

I'm just stating that if Intel is pinning their hopes on a Microsoft revival and Win8 and Ultrabooks, they'd better have a backup plan.

 

[Phynaz]

So basicly you are saying IDC, that tracks all sales, is wrong and you are right? And its me with the head stuck in the ground and blabber about who knows what? Got it.

PC sales are slowing and underperforming earlier estimates. Do you have updated estimates from IDC?

 

[ShintaiDK]

PC sales are slowing and underperforming earlier estimates. Do you have updated estimates from IDC?

Why do they need a new? They already state that Q3 will be horrible due to Windows 8 in Q4.

 

[Olikan]

charlie take on this:
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/10/15/...-management-doesnt-understand-semiconductors/

well, it makes sence...
since Sanders left, amd took some very strange decisions...

 

[Ajay]

Why do they need a new? They already state that Q3 will be horrible due to Windows 8 in Q4.

So now the 20-30% cuts at AMD make more sense, not only have the last two quarters been weak, but next quarter is going to be downright horrible - hence, they simply cannot sustain their current engineering staff (since they have nothing in the piggy bank to carry them over, unlike Intel).

 

[Keysplayr]

5-watts server


do you think that nvidia can compete with intel?

I know right? And some dude on here was fighting with me saying that nobody in their right mind even considers ARM for server usage. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Dang. Sorry for the OT. It's so easy for one topic to sprout another.