allen keyes is such a nut

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: AEB
how about we get a quote? (in full form preferably)

or is it ok to say "oh i heard so and so say something that they liek to eat babies.."

To make a statment like "Alan Keyes is trying, in a shameless and rather embarrassin fashin, to garner black votes..." is pretty big without anything to back up that assertion.

What else would you call it? He clearly ridiculed the same idea two years ago, but now that he's competing for election, all of a sudden he supports reparations. Even conservative columnist Michelle Malkin seems to agree with me. I can't see this as any different than his present carpetbagging, although he said it was dishonest and unethical when Hilary Clinton did it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: alchemize
I believe what Keyes said is that he supported the concept of the following:
Reparations for DIRECT slave descendants, basically making them exempt from income tax for one generation. Apparently there was some Roman precedent for this...

I think this makes the most sense of any argument I've ever heard.

Smart man. Stupid poster.

That is pretty damn nutty.

Not if Allsurmise just recovered his hearing after a lifetime of being deaf.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: AEB
how about we get a quote? (in full form preferably)

or is it ok to say "oh i heard so and so say something that they liek to eat babies.."

To make a statment like "Alan Keyes is trying, in a shameless and rather embarrassin fashin, to garner black votes..." is pretty big without anything to back up that assertion.

What else would you call it? He clearly ridiculed the same idea two years ago, but now that he's competing for election, all of a sudden he supports reparations. Even conservative columnist Michelle Malkin seems to agree with me. I can't see this as any different than his present carpetbagging, although he said it was dishonest and unethical when Hilary Clinton did it.

clearly AEB is too busy posting to this forum to listen to any news and hear what is happening and being said for himself.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I believe what Keyes said is that he supported the concept of the following:
Reparations for DIRECT slave descendants, basically making them exempt from income tax for one generation. Apparently there was some Roman precedent for this...

I think this makes the most sense of any argument I've ever heard.

Smart man. Stupid poster.

I'm willing to be my life savings if keyes had a "D" next to his name, you'd be calling keyes an idiot.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Phokus

I'm willing to be my life savings if keyes had a "D" next to his name, you'd be calling keyes an idiot.

I don't think there's any question, and I have a lot of respect for alchemize. Let's say, hypothetically, this notion were coming from Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton (or Obama for that matter) - the Republicans here (and in America generally) would be calling for his head.

 

[jhu]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Phokus

I'm willing to be my life savings if keyes had a "D" next to his name, you'd be calling keyes an idiot.

I don't think there's any question, and I have a lot of respect for alchemize. Let's say, hypothetically, this notion were coming from Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton (or Obama for that matter) - the Republicans here (and in America generally) would be calling for his head.

so why isn't this getting any press? is it because people realize that there's no way in hell that keyes will ever be elected?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: jhu

so why isn't this getting any press? is it because people realize that there's no way in hell that keyes will ever be elected?

I can't really speak to that, though it is getting press in Illinois, and at least some national media coverage.

Frankly I think to some degree the media is afraid to criticize an African-American speaking out on potentially controversial, primarily black issue. Jesse Jackson has similarly been getting a pass for years, although I regard him as a fundamentally greedy, exploitative man who has terribly abused his position as a black "leader" for a long time. Hell, even Louis Farrakhan seems to be able to talk openly about the "wickedness" of the Jews with impunity.

I don't mean these comments to come off as anti-black by any means - if anything I think it's a racist position by the media, in that they are effectively patronizing these black leaders by making them immune from criticism.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
the man sweats like no other. and he's so fervent in his speech its hard to really understand what the hell he's talking about sometimes. I think he was once quoted as comparing abortion to Islamic fundamentalist terrorism.

That sentiment is shared by many folks here. Get a load of the PM I once got from an ATOT regular in response to a vague comment I made about being a Democrat - I had not said ANYTHING about abortion. He's too cowardly to let me associate his name with this message.

By supporting Kerry, you support the killing of some 6 million innocent babies per year in this country. Whether you wear the uniform or not, I have no respect for someone who supports Holocaust-like murder on a yearly basis.

Yes, I am offended by you (and your Liberal buddies).

Let's see, what else do I not respect about you because you're voting for Kerry:

You're all about the grey area and blurring of right and wrong. Everything is fine as long as you feel good. You're probably first in line when a school decides it wants to eliminate sporting events because the losing team members will feel too bad afterwards.
You support the likes of Janet Reno who invaded innocent Americans, not terrorists.
You support the likes of Janet Reno who openly suggested the legalization of child porn.
You support giving every child a condom in the classroom and the removal of the 10 Commandments from every courthouse wall.
You support the removal of the right to bear arms.
You support the likes of Bill Clinton who disgraced the office.
You support the likes of Bill Clinton who gave sensitive weapons guidance technology to China in exchange for campaign contributions. (A lot of good that will do your brothers in arms.)
It pains you to hear the words, "One Nation Under God".
You don't want "marriage" as we know it be a sacred institution.

Iraq is just a small blip on the screen as far as I am concerned. It's not just Iraq. I HATE you and everyone who agrees with you because of the above, military service personnel included. There is a much larger war being waged here, and everyone is fighting on one side or the other, whether we like it or not.

LOL, well, PM'er certainly feels passionate about his reality, even if its somewhat off kilter. Odd that someone who is seemingly so passionate is such a chicken. I prefer to live and die by my words--for they are who I am. Sometimes I'm stubbornly wrong, but at least I'm given the chance to learn something when I open my big mouth.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Corn

LOL, well, PM'er certainly feels passionate about his reality, even if its somewhat off kilter. Odd that someone who is seemingly so passionate is such a chicken. I prefer to live and die by my words--for they are who I am. Sometimes I'm stubbornly wrong, but at least I'm given the chance to learn something when I open my big mouth.

I can respect his passion to a degree (though I think hating someone because of their choice of political party is counterproductive to say the least), but I do consider it cowardice to be afraid of publically letting people know how you feel. When I asked him why he didn't post these kinds of things on the board, and said he was being cowardly, his response was:

. . . I thought I made it clear, anyone who supports the Left, military service personnel included, are offensive to me.

Sure, call me a coward if that's what you need to feel like a man. Fine with me really.

So you'd be happy if I just came out in a thread and announced plainly that I hate liberals?

I once got into an argument with my aunt when I was 13. She called me an asshole because she refused to believe that I saw a yellowpages ad for an abortion clinic, advertising abortions into the third trimester. She never responded when I sent her the yellowpages ad. But yes, ever since she called me an asshole at 13, I've hated liberals. Mind you, I work with them, and they are fantastic people, even my homosexual boss.

:roll:

 

[Moonbeam]

I prefer to live and die by my words--for they are who I am. Sometimes I'm stubbornly wrong, but at least I'm given the chance to learn something when I open my big mouth.[/quote]

Ah so it's time for Nibblet's lesson:

The best of you has nothing to do with words and is ineffible.

 

[LunarRay]

When we hate another because they 'think' differently than us or live differently than us we find ourselves in quite a dilemma.
It is not Christian to Hate another nor to my knowledge is it appropriate under any organized religion.
It is not healthy to Hate anything and especially another person.
To those who hold no religious belief Hate would be irrelevant to their belief.
Hate has no intellectual place in any dialog or debate.
Hate is an emotion that cries out for help. It is the ego demanding its toys and even the toys of others. Hate has yet to accept the objective of society's general goal is to eliminate hate by considering all the population in a manner that seeks to define rights and wrongs and doing so in a reasonable and fair manner.... For all.

At least IMO.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I prefer to live and die by my words--for they are who I am. Sometimes I'm stubbornly wrong, but at least I'm given the chance to learn something when I open my big mouth.

Ah so it's time for Nibblet's lesson:

The best of you has nothing to do with words and is ineffible.[/quote]

Sorry Moonie, I didn't mean to confuse you so. My words are a reflection of myself--a description of my experiences in life that have formed my being. They are neither "the best" nor the worst, they merely are.

I grant that you find me ineffable, I have no such limitation however: I am the Yang to your Yin, and am a cranky old asshole to boot.........I prove it, and live it, with every post.

And I do love you so.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: DonVito
Are we now reduced to being bound by Roman precedent for how to conduct business in this country? Are we going to start throwing Christians to the lions, too?

How many millions of Americans are the "direct descendents" of slaves, anyway? If this idea were being promoted by a Democrat, the Republicans would be lambasting him at every opportunity. It really does sound like Keyes is shaving points in this election - either that or he's a true wacko.

Actually, what happened was a reporter asked him if he supported reparations. He stated a viable alternative that he supported. I don't believe he was making campaign pledges, proposing them, or anything. The MSNBC article is making things up by saying "Conservative calling for tax
exemption for descendants of slaves ". Unless my information from a local radio show is incorrect.


This is getting rather blown out of proportion. Of course, when someone like Obama is competing against someone like Keyes, you can't make it a matter of substance and logic because this all all about being the more charismatic person. How many articles has the Tribune run on Obama's record or positions? From what I've seen - zip. Many numerous articles on how great his speech was, how he's the upcoming superstart, etc. Pretty typical liberal bias from the Tribune of course - who put Rove "dirty tactics" to shame with the lawsuit against the Jack Ryan divorce records.

Funny that never gets mentioned by any of the Obama fan-boi's

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: jhu

so why isn't this getting any press? is it because people realize that there's no way in hell that keyes will ever be elected?

I can't really speak to that, though it is getting press in Illinois, and at least some national media coverage.

Frankly I think to some degree the media is afraid to criticize an African-American speaking out on potentially controversial, primarily black issue. Jesse Jackson has similarly been getting a pass for years, although I regard him as a fundamentally greedy, exploitative man who has terribly abused his position as a black "leader" for a long time. Hell, even Louis Farrakhan seems to be able to talk openly about the "wickedness" of the Jews with impunity.

I don't mean these comments to come off as anti-black by any means - if anything I think it's a racist position by the media, in that they are effectively patronizing these black leaders by making them immune from criticism.

WTH... I am all for AA, but what he is proposing is straight bs. That is outright bigotry there. He is such a staunch right winger I am shocked he would even propose something as outlandish as this. He was wrong to say something like this. And its only white people who keep with this assigning us who are our black leaders. I wonder if Matthew Hale and Timothy McVeigh are and were the leaders of all white people.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

When I was in high school, all the girls found me ineffible. At least I think that's what they were saying!

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: classy
And its only white people who keep with this assigning us who are our black leaders. I wonder if Matthew Hale and Timothy McVeigh are and were the leaders of all white people.

I think there's some truth to that, but I also think a lot of men of varying character have stepped forward and declared themselves "black leaders," sometimes with good intentions, sometimes not.

I hope and believe Barack Obama continues to show the grace, intelligence, and character to really walk the walk. I think it's shameful, frankly, that the Democratic party has not worked harder to bring more people of color to prominence, and from what I've seen he is a man of limitless potential. We'll see, I guess.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Actually, what happened was a reporter asked him if he supported reparations. He stated a viable alternative that he supported. I don't believe he was making campaign pledges, proposing them, or anything. The MSNBC article is making things up by saying "Conservative calling for tax
exemption for descendants of slaves ". Unless my information from a local radio show is incorrect.

My understanding is that he initially offered this notion in answer to a reporter's question, then on Tuesday, announced a more specific plan for implementation in a news release.

I find the neoconservative reaction to this a little funny, because it clearly has some Republican pundits back on their heels. Even WorldNetDaily doesn't seem to know what to think, and close their article with a quote from Obama.

Here's a commentary column I think is pretty much on-point, though I doubt you'll agree.

 

[alchemize]

Well, apparently he's found something that caught the interest of the press

Can anyone name Barrack Obama's positions on anything?

Here is his NPAT from 1998 Relatively generically liberal.


Does say he supports charter schools (interesting I wonder if he still has THAT position. Might have been popular in chicago, but now what about being national?)

Does support ban on automatic weapons (no suprise in the peaceful city of chicago)

All for the welfare type issues.
All for taxing "the rich" (75K plus wow those are rich folks!)

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Well, apparently he's found something that caught the interest of the press

Can anyone name Barrack Obama's positions on anything?

I know I can't. I am not from Illinois, and the first time I ever heard of him was this spring, when Jack Ryan had the temerity to hire a guy to follow him around and take note of his every action. I was very impressed with his speech at the DNC, and I am equally impressed with his stellar educational background, especially in the context of his modest upbringing. As for his specific positions, I can almost always at least deal with a generically liberal platform, and I certainly haven't heard of any show-stoppers in terms of his views.

Alan Keyes, on the other hand, has always struck me as a fundamentalist, opportunist wacko with whom I have essentially nothing in common - his vision of America sounds like a Christian version of the Taliban to me. From what I can see, his present run is entirely directed toward personal gain, and the new reparations plan is, like his carpetbagging, a complete reversal of principles, for what seems like a mercenary reason. If I were an Illinois voter, it'd be ABK (Anyone But Keyes) for me.

 

[classy]

There are no black senators right?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: classy
There are no black senators right?

Hmmmm, none that I can think of. Apparently Obama would be the first from Illinois

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: classy
There are no black senators right?

Hmmmm, none that I can think of. Apparently Obama would be the first from Illinois

I didn't think so. So its either Keyes or Obama. Its about time have at least one black senator, sheesh. Well I am pulling for the brother in that race, lol.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: classy
There are no black senators right?

Not presently. There have been four in the past. I find it interesting that Mississippi sent two black men to the Senate in the aftermath of the Civil War - I'd like to know more about their stories, because I bet some interesting things were taking place in the state legislature at the time.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: classy
There are no black senators right?

Not presently. There have been four in the past. I find it interesting that Mississippi sent two black men to the Senate in the aftermath of the Civil War - I'd like to know more about their stories, because I bet some interesting things were taking place in the state legislature at the time.

Man I never knew that. I forgot all about Braun. Learn something new everyday.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Hmmmm, none that I can think of. Apparently Obama would be the first from Illinois

Carol Moseley Braun was also an IL senator.

Interestingly, AP misreported during the DNC that there had never been a black senator, and it was repeated by many news sources, although there was a black senator in IL as recently as 1998. I admit I myself was taken in by this reporting, and repeated that "fact" at least once while chatting about Obama's speech with friends.