All these kids getting Computer Science degrees

[satori]

I've always been curious what the background of the laid-off engineers are. The only guy I know who's been having a hard time finding a job in the valley (he's had a couple short contract positions) has a business degree. The 2 guys up in Seattle were also from IS backgrounds. All my friend's with engineering backgrounds (99% EE) have been steadily working. The last guy to change jobs left Intel a while back during that big "voluntary lay-off" you guys had a year or two ago.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: calbear2000

Originally posted by: Ameesh
hey calaber i got a solution for you: DONT INTERVIEW IN THE VALLEY WHERE THERE ALREADY A BUNCH OF LAID OFF ENGINEERS, the united states is huge, orange county, austin, oklahoma,raliegh, DC, miami, new york etc. there are lot of places where computer companies are sprouting up. redmond and the valley are not the only places in the world. and who says you have to work for a computer company , i have friends that work in financial firms as programmers, i know a guy who works as a DB Admin for porsche, nearly every industry needs at least a few people who understand computers.

Lol... you're so hard to have a discussion with Ameesh

Its all good though... go Windows!

w0000000000000000000t!

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Killbat
Yea, I see tons of people studying CS at my school that aren't into it at all. In fact, many seem frustrated with the whole programming concept.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN COMPSCI, THEN, MORON. Go learn something you enjoy and leave the CS to those who A) like programming and B) are good at it.

And I hear way too many people say they're into CS because of the nebulous "I want to make games."

Many people seem to be leaving CS as each semester goes by.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: CPA
Your question is the exact reason I got an accounting degree and then persued my CPA - I knew I could make good money with both.

I was considering a CS for a few reasons... all of which you stated. I enjoy CS work, and it's a relatively stable career field, even with just a B.S.... however, I realized that I'd be better off getting a degree in something I actually enjoy (Economics), and pursuing graduate work in that field instead.

i don't get it... i thought you do enjoy cs work...

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: gopunk

i don't get it... i thought you do enjoy cs work...

I do, but it's not the same as some of the people I know... they 'get it' better than I do, and they're more passionate about it than I am.

I think in terms of economics, costs and benefits... it's kind of sad, really.

 

[Fulcrum]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: CubicZirconia
Ok, so if CS isn't the field to get into, what is?

if you like CS, do it, dont listen to these apocolyptic pissants trying to convince you that you'll be working at mcdonalds or something. Do what you like, everything will work out from there.

Very true. The key is do something you know you'll enjoy. If love CS then go for it! Just don't do it for money. That's a mistake too many people make and they only find out how stupid they were to get a degree they really didn't want until it too late.

 

[littleprince]

My entire comp sci program has been ruined by ppl who are here just to get money. If you dont know how to use a computer get out of the fricking proram. If your just gonna copy and cheat your way through the program get outta the program. If your gonna just rely on other ppl for help 24/7 or ask for asnwers to ur hwk here pls get outta the program.

The level is so low now, that ppl ask me how to save files to their floppy disks in win nt, or stupid things like not knowing what man pages are... why should a prof spend 2 lectures explaining what a pointer is? It just makes class boring and not worth attending. Reduce the program by 1/10 size, and than maybe the rest of us will learn something.

 

[edmicman]

Originally posted by: littleprince
The level is so low now, that ppl ask me how to save files to their floppy disks in win nt, or stupid things like not knowing what man pages are... why should a prof spend 2 lectures explaining what a pointer is? It just makes class boring and not worth attending. Reduce the program by 1/10 size, and than maybe the rest of us will learn something.

why/how should people new to the field know about unix and man pages? agreed, in an upper level course they shouldn't still be going over the basics of unix and pointers and such, but you have to start somewhere. when i came in as a freshman, i'd never used a unix machine before...still think they're a wait of productivity for 99% of the stuff out there, and still only have a basic need-to-know understanding of getting around the thing. works for me...i just don't think you should chastise people for learning information....if you already know how to do it, great, but i was always under the impression that you went to school to learn NEW things....not everyone in the field comes in already knowing everything there is to know, nor was brought up building their own processors and writing their own OS's

 

[bUnMaNGo]

one of my biggest pet peeves is from freshman year in the dorms- you say you're a CS major, and EVERYBODY on your floor automatically assumes that you're some computer guru that knows about computers in and out, and comes to you for EVERY SINGLE LITTLE computer problem they have.

anyways, for you guys who say that CS majors who can't program worth sh!t should get out of the program, remember that CS isn't all about programming- it was built on a HUGE mathematical foundation (think about it, any C program is a turing machine). For example, this one TA I had for an algorithms class- he couldn't program worth sh!t (like he'd mess up with {'s and }'s) but he was a genious when it came to proofs- give him (almost) anything, and he can prove whether it is context free, regular, NP complete, etc etc. So before you guys go knocking on fellow CS majors who can't program, think about that for a second. However I do understand what you guys are talking about, and it can be frustrating. There are people who don't fall into either of the categories I mentioned, and yes, those people shouldn't bother being in the major

as for the IT vs CS things- my understanding is that IT is more network admin based, and CS is more software engineering based. Sure, there's that little overlap with web development and SQL databases, PHP, etc etc, but for the most part, that's my understanding. Am I wrong?

 

[zerocool1]

I value the concept of pursuing a career in a field with work you enjoy, but since so many people get CS degrees that makes it difficult for the rest of us. I would get a cs degree at uiuc but its just too dang hard for someone that cares for not much else besides programming, graphix, and such to get into. you need to get like a 33 on the ACT to get into their cs program. So plan on doing an MIS degree with a minor in CS. Learn programming with and get a sense of how business operates. What do you ppl think of that?

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: bUnMaNGo
one of my biggest pet peeves is from freshman year in the dorms- you say you're a CS major, and EVERYBODY on your floor automatically assumes that you're some computer guru that knows about computers in and out, and comes to you for EVERY SINGLE LITTLE computer problem they have.

That is one of the few reasons I liked ISU. We were dormed according to major, so everyone in my hall was a CS major. I was lucky I ggut put there, 'cause I majored in PHY as well. I think they assumed CS majors were wusses, cause we were on the lowest hall in Watterson towers, Smith. The camers all ended up on floor 3 which is where the elevator stoped. How nice We tore apart the network room for the whole tower since it was on our floor. We has some major fun

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: bUnMaNGo
one of my biggest pet peeves is from freshman year in the dorms- you say you're a CS major, and EVERYBODY on your floor automatically assumes that you're some computer guru that knows about computers in and out, and comes to you for EVERY SINGLE LITTLE computer problem they have. anyways, for you guys who say that CS majors who can't program worth sh!t should get out of the program, remember that CS isn't all about programming- it was built on a HUGE mathematical foundation (think about it, any C program is a turing machine). For example, this one TA I had for an algorithms class- he couldn't program worth sh!t (like he'd mess up with {'s and }'s) but he was a genious when it came to proofs- give him (almost) anything, and he can prove whether it is context free, regular, NP complete, etc etc. So before you guys go knocking on fellow CS majors who can't program, think about that for a second. However I do understand what you guys are talking about, and it can be frustrating. There are people who don't fall into either of the categories I mentioned, and yes, those people shouldn't bother being in the major as for the IT vs CS things- my understanding is that IT is more network admin based, and CS is more software engineering based. Sure, there's that little overlap with web development and SQL databases, PHP, etc etc, but for the most part, that's my understanding. Am I wrong?

Yeah, but who's going to pay him to do proofs?

 

[mithrandir2001]

The silver lining to this wretched tech labor market is that many unemployeds (the ones who don't have a true passion for CS) will eventually get discouraged and find work in other fields. When the labor market improves (and it will) then there will be less competition and fluff and a return to higher, juicier, Bimmer-leasin' salaries.

 

[quirky]

i especially hate the fobs who constantly bug their friends to ask their friends to ask their friends who the easy professors are.

 

[ajayjuneja]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: bUnMaNGo
one of my biggest pet peeves is from freshman year in the dorms- you say you're a CS major, and EVERYBODY on your floor automatically assumes that you're some computer guru that knows about computers in and out, and comes to you for EVERY SINGLE LITTLE computer problem they have. anyways, for you guys who say that CS majors who can't program worth sh!t should get out of the program, remember that CS isn't all about programming- it was built on a HUGE mathematical foundation (think about it, any C program is a turing machine). For example, this one TA I had for an algorithms class- he couldn't program worth sh!t (like he'd mess up with {'s and }'s) but he was a genious when it came to proofs- give him (almost) anything, and he can prove whether it is context free, regular, NP complete, etc etc. So before you guys go knocking on fellow CS majors who can't program, think about that for a second. However I do understand what you guys are talking about, and it can be frustrating. There are people who don't fall into either of the categories I mentioned, and yes, those people shouldn't bother being in the major as for the IT vs CS things- my understanding is that IT is more network admin based, and CS is more software engineering based. Sure, there's that little overlap with web development and SQL databases, PHP, etc etc, but for the most part, that's my understanding. Am I wrong?

Yeah, but who's going to pay him to do proofs?

Err Microsoft for one does that.... if you're really really good at discrete math.

 

[ajayjuneja]

Just a few things of note. First, CS is a bad field to go into for money. Better to become an i-banker, stock broker, or hedge fund trader if you are one of them people who want to do things for money.

Second, while it is harder to find jobs now that it was two years ago, I personally was able to get an interview with every company I wanted to and intern offers from a few of them. There are still jobs out there. Now I'm getting really specialized (speech recognition) and applying to less companies, and getting much better results!

We'll see what this year brings, but so far it looks like I've got at least 3 companies I think I have a good shot at.

FYI, I'm a junior at CMU in CS with a minor in Robotics.

 

[gwlam12]

i like computer science. i enjoy programming. i dont want to make games. i'd rather program for big companies

 

[deftron]

I was considering Computer Science / IST before,
but two people I work with are CS majors and complete idiots when
it comes to computers. One of them doesn't even own a computer.
I really don't see how they'll be prepared for the job market as tough as it is.

And besides, I don't wnat to be stuck in a cublicle the rest of my life.

So, I'm now on cousre to a Journalism/Media Production degree.

I know it's also a gamble, but the payof could be greater and more enjoyable

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: deftron

One of them doesn't even own a computer.

OMG

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: mithrandir2001
The silver lining to this wretched tech labor market is that many unemployeds (the ones who don't have a true passion for CS) will eventually get discouraged and find work in other fields. When the labor market improves (and it will) then there will be less competition and fluff and a return to higher, juicier, Bimmer-leasin' salaries.

exactly. it's weeding out the fakes

 

[Bluga]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: calbear2000

Originally posted by: Ameesh
hey calaber i got a solution for you: DONT INTERVIEW IN THE VALLEY WHERE THERE ALREADY A BUNCH OF LAID OFF ENGINEERS, the united states is huge, orange county, austin, oklahoma,raliegh, DC, miami, new york etc. there are lot of places where computer companies are sprouting up. redmond and the valley are not the only places in the world. and who says you have to work for a computer company , i have friends that work in financial firms as programmers, i know a guy who works as a DB Admin for porsche, nearly every industry needs at least a few people who understand computers.

Lol... you're so hard to have a discussion with Ameesh

Its all good though... go Windows!

w0000000000000000000t!

This is exactly why M$ software is so buggy, and i never buy Windows, i get them for free. That's what Windows worth.

 

[StageLeft]

Do you think it's wise to get into computers just for the money?

yes. Why not? Lots of people enter fields for money.

Do you think there will be enough jobs for the increasing numbers of CS graduates?

No - there is already a major excess of unskilled (read: unexperienced) programmers.

I got into IT because my degree (psychology) is useless on its own. I got into IT just under the wire. I'm hoping that I have enough experience building now that I can turn it into a career (working on third year as software developer now). I got into it because I had nothing else to do and wanted the good money. Well now jobs are f**king hard to come by. If you have one you're set, especially if it's in a stable company but lots of people can't get them. A friend of mine has just spent more than a year out of school and is still unable to find work. Now don't get me wrong the guy is a moron but still a few years back he'd of had no problems.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
if youre a good programmer you will have no problem finding a job. if you're stupid or suck then it wil be hard.

It's not that simple. If you have a year experience you can't put on your resume "Trust me I'm really really good!!". It's going to get thrown in the pile with the other people who don't have much experience. In this market people with 5 years experience are finding it takes time to find work; why should a company even risk hiring somebody with a year?