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All that anticipation for this?

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
5D MkII = FF version of 50D. Meh.

$2700. Meh.

No real weather sealing. Meh.

50D AF + "6 assist points". How long until a FW hack enables this for the 50D?

Canon had like 2 years and this is the best they can do?

Those sitting on the fence: go for a Nikon D700 or D300!

 

arrfep

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2006
2,314
16
81
I agree. If I can get some hands-on time with a D700 and find that the IQ matches my 5D, I will strongly consider switching. The IQ of the 5D leaves absolutely nothing to be desired, IMO, so I don't see why we had to nearly double the MP. Though, I do understand there's a marketing game to play. Honestly the only thing that keeps me from switching is that AFAIK Nikon doesn't have a 24mm or 35mm f1.4, one of which I was planning on buying in EF mount before year's end.
 

FP

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2005
4,568
0
0
Hmm... I was in the market for a 40D... then the 50D came out... now the 5D MkII... I think I will wait for reviews.

The video camera addition is nice but I am guessing the HD video compression algorithms aren't going to be the greatest.

Any word on street date?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
It's nice for Canon and Nikon to offer two distinct choices.

Full frame action: Nikon D700
Full frame portrait/landscape: Canon 5D2

That's not saying that the 5D2 can't do action, or that the D700 can't do portraits/landscapes, but they're tailored to slightly different crowds.

Makes choosing easier.

The nice thing is the lower price of the 5D2 will make Nikon follow suit.
 

soydios

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2006
2,708
0
0
Originally posted by: arrfep
I agree. If I can get some hands-on time with a D700 and find that the IQ matches my 5D, I will strongly consider switching. The IQ of the 5D leaves absolutely nothing to be desired, IMO, so I don't see why we had to nearly double the MP. Though, I do understand there's a marketing game to play. Honestly the only thing that keeps me from switching is that AFAIK Nikon doesn't have a 24mm or 35mm f1.4, one of which I was planning on buying in EF mount before year's end.

The D700 has a strong anti-aliasing filter, so edge acuity will be slightly softer than the original 5D. From ISO200 to ISO800 they're about the same, but at ISO1600 and above the D700 pulls away (duh).
 

soydios

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2006
2,708
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Alright, here's my commentary on the Canon announcements:

5D mkII
1) First of all, it's about damn time.
2) It looks like a 1Ds mkIII dumbed way way down, far more than the D700 is dumbed down from the D3.
3) 21MP sensor will do fine, but expect amateurs to complain about sharpness until they figure out how to deal with such high resolutions (this was a problem for pros when the D2x first hit the scene in 2004, but they've since learned the proper techniques to acheive maximum per-pixel sharpness).
4) Either the ISO25600 performance will look awful, or will be the same as the D3. If it's the same as the D3, it just goes to show that Canon is still king at making sensors work well at high ISO. If it's worse than the D3, then go figure, that's math for ya.
5) They've had three years to develop a successor to the 5D, and they're still using the same autofocus? Really? Shame, shame.
6) 3.9FPS is respectable for 21MP, but compared to the D300/D700/A900 it comes up short for sports use. And until Canon comes out with a sports-oriented camera to compete head-to-head against those cameras at this price point, don't bother telling me that it isn't meant for sports. If people spend over $1500 for a camera they have every right to expect it to be useful for more than just studio work.
7) It really one-ups Nikon on the video front, but for a camera that costs 2.5 times more it'd better. 1080p at 30fps with a stereo input jack is nice.

G10
With everyone clamoring for better noise performance in their compacts, why the heck would Canon put a fifteen megapixel sensor in one? Apparently someone missed the memo. Expect dynamic range and noise to be serious problems, like every other compact on the market. And everyone was really hoping that the G10 would break that mold.

EF 24mm f/1.4L USM
The introduction of this lens further highlights the fact that us Nikon users don't have the option of a fast wide prime. The AF-S 14-24mm f/2.8G is a great lens and all, but it isn't practical for everyday use.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's nice for Canon and Nikon to offer two distinct choices.

Full frame action: Nikon D700
Full frame portrait/landscape: Canon 5D2

That's not saying that the 5D2 can't do action, or that the D700 can't do portraits/landscapes, but they're tailored to slightly different crowds.

Makes choosing easier.

The nice thing is the lower price of the 5D2 will make Nikon follow suit.

they're very good about not quite competing head to head.

i'm going to not go out on a limb here and say that the 1D4 will remain APS-H format. why? it gives people a little extra reach and is just different enough to make canon and nikon not quite competitors.


5) They've had three years to develop a successor to the 5D, and they're still using the same autofocus? Really? Shame, shame.

only the layout is the same or similar. the points are now all cross, the center is extra sensitive, and there is a much faster processor driving it.

don't bother telling me that it isn't meant for sports.
it's not. neither is the A900 at 'only' 5 FPS.

If people spend over $1500 for a camera they have every right to expect it to be useful for more than just studio work.
you know that there is more to life than just sports and studio work, right?


7) It really one-ups Nikon on the video front, but for a camera that costs 2.5 times more it'd better. 1080p at 30fps with a stereo input jack is nice.
WHERE IS THE XLR JACK?!?
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,883
63
91
Originally posted by: soydios
Alright, here's my commentary on the Canon announcements:

5D mkII
1) First of all, it's about damn time.
2) It looks like a 1Ds mkIII dumbed way way down, far more than the D700 is dumbed down from the D3.
3) 21MP sensor will do fine, but expect amateurs to complain about sharpness until they figure out how to deal with such high resolutions (this was a problem for pros when the D2x first hit the scene in 2004, but they've since learned the proper techniques to acheive maximum per-pixel sharpness).
4) Either the ISO25600 performance will look awful, or will be the same as the D3. If it's the same as the D3, it just goes to show that Canon is still king at making sensors work well at high ISO. If it's worse than the D3, then go figure, that's math for ya.
5) They've had three years to develop a successor to the 5D, and they're still using the same autofocus? Really? Shame, shame.
6) 3.9FPS is respectable for 21MP, but compared to the D300/D700/A900 it comes up short for sports use. And until Canon comes out with a sports-oriented camera to compete head-to-head against those cameras at this price point, don't bother telling me that it isn't meant for sports. If people spend over $1500 for a camera they have every right to expect it to be useful for more than just studio work.
7) It really one-ups Nikon on the video front, but for a camera that costs 2.5 times more it'd better. 1080p at 30fps with a stereo input jack is nice.

G10
With everyone clamoring for better noise performance in their compacts, why the heck would Canon put a fifteen megapixel sensor in one? Apparently someone missed the memo. Expect dynamic range and noise to be serious problems, like every other compact on the market. And everyone was really hoping that the G10 would break that mold.

EF 24mm f/1.4L USM
The introduction of this lens further highlights the fact that us Nikon users don't have the option of a fast wide prime. The AF-S 14-24mm f/2.8G is a great lens and all, but it isn't practical for everyday use.

1)Why Hurry?
2)They all are dumbed down. A lot of people don't want a pro body.
3)You can throw current MP/NR or signal to noise ratios aside. Gapless microlenses have pushed that reset button. Canon has stated the sensor surpasses the current 1Ds in IQ.
4)Who knows.
5)9 pt AF. The only thing in common. Has a separate controller for servo, doesn't use the digic process. All are cross type AF's. Center has many 'assist' points. It's already been said the 50D is pretty good at AI Servo, we could only hope the same for the new 5D.
6)Wait, how many people said 10 fps is silly? (When the Mk III made it's debut.) Hope you weren't one of them. The 5d following is friggin huge. 3fps was hardly a complaint. It didn't fit what they needed.
It's like, high fps are featured in a pro body where you expect it, and people complain that it's silly. And it's not delivered in a non-pro body, as expected, and people complain.
7)Wait, what? Out of all people you are comparing video modes in two different target markets.
IQ was the name of the game. Expect the mk II to deliver in spades for IQ.
There were several advancements in sensor technology that made it's way into the 50D. Look for this plus more in future Canon cameras.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Viewfinder comparison

5D2

D700

Shutter lag is about 82.5% longer on the 5D2 over the D700 (73ms vs. 40ms). Mirror blackout time on the 5D2 is 145ms. This thing is definitely NOT built for speed.
 

angry hampster

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2007
4,232
0
0
www.lexaphoto.com
I am, as a 5D owner, pleased with the specs of this camera and look forward to trying it out. Ive never been dissatisfied with the 3fps of the 5D: I've got 1-series cameras at work for anything that needs more. I'm very happy to see that they included autofocus on video mode - that could be a helluva lot of fun to play around with. 9pt all-cross AF is very cool as well. Nice price point, though it makes me wish I would've waited to buy my 5D.


edit: New batt grip looks the same as the old one. I was hoping for a grip designed like the 1D's with a large single battery loaded from the side as opposed to having a massive rear door for two batteries.
 

Deadtrees

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2002
2,351
0
0
For those who need/want action photography camera, D700 wins hand down. For someone like me who's on the other side, 5D mk2 wins hands down. It's silly to argue which one is better because these cameras target different market segments.

If Nikon comes out with a higher MP camera with better image processing algorithms than current D700/D3, then we can say we have a winner.
 

Deadtrees

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2002
2,351
0
0
Anyway, 2 major disappoints:

1. Pretty much the same mirror box system as 5D = lame shutter lag and black out time as 5D. A big WTF. Seriously, this really is fucked up.

2. Only the center AF point is cross type. Canon says it's to provide better AI-Servo.

 

randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,846
2
0
linh.wordpress.com
A solid release, nothing mind blowing. Should have been 2499 to just really compete =) Though, no real point in canon to do so. I agree on the shutter lag/mirror box issue. Same with the weather sealing... WTF?!

The D700 is looking more and more attractive to me in the FF realm. I'm long from upgrading though.. D300 is too much for me. I'll stick with my 40D/20D combo for now, heh.
 

Heidfirst

Platinum Member
May 18, 2005
2,015
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0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's nice for Canon and Nikon to offer two distinct choices.
& don't forget the Sony (incl. a 35mm f1.4 option - stabilised of course ;)).
We now have a choice of 3 different "reasonably affordable" FF bodies each with a different blend of features which is good for competition.

As always wait for reviews of production/retail bodies.

 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
I'm glad I jumped ship to Nikon. I would be frustrated to hell with a camera like this for my kind of shooting. Would probably end up being a pretty expensive kick ball.
 

Deadtrees

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2002
2,351
0
0
Originally posted by: randomlinh
A solid release, nothing mind blowing. Should have been 2499 to just really compete =) Though, no real point in canon to do so. I agree on the shutter lag/mirror box issue. Same with the weather sealing... WTF?!

The D700 is looking more and more attractive to me in the FF realm. I'm long from upgrading though.. D300 is too much for me. I'll stick with my 40D/20D combo for now, heh.

I think weather sealing is okay. It's not as good as 1 series but it looks quite good.


Originally posted by: Heidfirst
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's nice for Canon and Nikon to offer two distinct choices.
& don't forget the Sony (incl. a 35mm f1.4 option - stabilised of course ;)).
We now have a choice of 3 different "reasonably affordable" FF bodies each with a different blend of features which is good for competition.

As always wait for reviews of production/retail bodies.

I don't know where Sony is going with @900. Compared to 5D mk2, it doesn't seem much attractive. 5D mk2 is a cheap high MP camera that shines in still/studio environment. D700 is a low MP action photography camera that shines in sports environment. They are going for different segments of FF market and each of those are really good for where they're intended for. Now, @900 is more expensive than 5D mk2 and it's advantage is very minimal whereas the disadvantage is far bigger. @900 seems to be in very ackward place.
Those who like what @900 offers will get it anyway but I'm sure its sales figure will be very disappointing.


 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
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Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I'm glad I jumped ship to Nikon. I would be frustrated to hell with a camera like this for my kind of shooting. Would probably end up being a pretty expensive kick ball.

the way you use cameras i wouldn't be shocked if your D300 ends up an expensive kick ball.
 

OdiN

Banned
Mar 1, 2000
16,430
3
0
I expect this will be an excellent wedding camera. I may get one.

It has lens micro adjustments...which someone somewhere said it didn't at first so I was puzzled at that.

If it's decently clean at ISO 3200, and usable at 6400 I'd be very happy with one I'm sure.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I'm glad I jumped ship to Nikon. I would be frustrated to hell with a camera like this for my kind of shooting. Would probably end up being a pretty expensive kick ball.

the way you use cameras i wouldn't be shocked if your D300 ends up an expensive kick ball.

Well, I'll hopefully get a feeling for it when I run it through the shower the first day I get it.
 

Heidfirst

Platinum Member
May 18, 2005
2,015
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Originally posted by: Deadtrees
I don't know where Sony is going with @900. Compared to 5D mk2, it doesn't seem much attractive. 5D mk2 is a cheap high MP camera that shines in still/studio environment.
why don't you think that the A900 will do this as well?
it's got a better viewfinder & a feature that replicates a Polaroid back which I would imagine appealing to studio users.
It's also got more MP, more fps (I know not really relevant for studio) possibly better AF & build quality.

Now, @900 is more expensive than 5D mk2 and it's advantage is very minimal whereas the disadvantage is far bigger.
It's cheaper in Europe than 5D MkII & what bigger disadvantage do you see?
To me it seems a more focussed body for the traditional user.
 

soydios

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2006
2,708
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2 more things I noticed:
8) No pop-up flash = weaksauce.
9) New menus? They look nice.