All Statues and Monuments must come down

[CZroe]

*Sigh* posting is such a chore for you, must be tough. As usual, your reply is riddled with assumptions. For someone who extrapolates information from the nonsense the OP posts it certainly seems like a challenge to address what I said.

I don't care what other countries have done to their statues. I care what my country does. Why you ask? Because I've never endorsed USA's imperialism.

So what's your plan? Gonna go SJW for Churchill? Maybe, I know it's sounds crazy, but just maybe you put energy into using the internet. It's seems wikipedia describes churchill's views on race, which could shed some light on why people don't like his views on race.

I could link it for you, but it's like 3 words to find it at the top of the list.

Anything else you'd like to hit yourself in the face with?

LOL! Listen to yourself.

 

[CZroe]

*Sigh* posting is such a chore for you, must be tough. As usual, your reply is riddled with assumptions. For someone who extrapolates information from the nonsense the OP posts it certainly seems like a challenge to address what I said.

I don't care what other countries have done to their statues. I care what my country does. Why you ask? Because I've never endorsed USA's imperialism.

So what's your plan? Gonna go SJW for Churchill? Maybe, I know it's sounds crazy, but just maybe you put energy into using the internet. It's seems wikipedia describes churchill's views on race, which could shed some light on why people don't like his views on race.

I could link it for you, but it's like 3 words to find it at the top of the list.

Anything else you'd like to hit yourself in the face with?

I didn't even state a position on Churchill but I'm partial to Knowing Better's contextual look at Churchill's racism:

You might want to have a look at his Columbus video too.

 

[ch33zw1z]

LOL! Listen to yourself.

I do regularly, maybe you should take your own advice. Your arrogance apparently knows no bounds

 

[zzyzxroad]

"Master" is a still commonly used term for many technology products. It usually means the primary device or default option. Most modern tech products got rid of "slave" years ago, and replaced it with something like "worker" or "secondary".

Changing "master" to something else that is just going to cause industry confusion, mostly because you'll never get people to agree on what to replace it with. Even if you did think it was a good idea, where would it end... would you advocate changing the 1 or 0 designation in binary code to 1 or 7 or something because people suddenly thought that the number 0 was offensive?

The OP only mentioned Statues and Monuments so your point is either unintentionally uninformed or an intentional diversion.

Start a new thread or stick to the topic please.

Your my mechanic refused to work on my brakes until the master cylinder and slave cylinder names are changed type arguments are preposterous.

 

[CZroe]

I do regularly, maybe you should take your own advice. Your arrogance apparently knows no bounds

LOL! No.

I didn't even state a position on Churchill's alleged racism or defacing the statue when you went off the deep end reacting EXACTLY the wrong way (as usual). I only pointed out that Dave showing the pyramids obviously implies a more broad scope for the conversation than you were even willing to consider before shamelessly dismissing it.

Even before he posted that image those two statues I mentioned were literally the first that came to mind when I read the OP.

Squirm!

 

[soulcougher73]

Vinegar boy?

 

[ch33zw1z]

LOL! No. I didn't even state a position on Churchill's alleged racism or defacing the statue when you went off the deep end. I only pointed out that Dave showing the pyramids obviously implies a more broad scope for the conversation than you were even willing to consider before dismissing it.

Squirm!

Lol indeed. Dance all you want, i made my point known. Maybe you should make yours.

Dave showing the pyramids is either him being an idiot and you defending his idiocy, or just hyperbole, which your still defending.

Either way, it's clear you agree with him, but for some reason not with me.

So, either reply with something that matters, or just don't bother.

 

[CZroe]

Lol indeed. Dance all you want, i made my point known. Maybe you should make yours.

Dave showing the pyramids is either him being an idiot and you defending his idiocy, or just hyperbole, which your still defending.

Either way, it's clear you agree with him, but for some reason not with me.

So, either reply with something that matters, or just don't bother.

I can't call you out for prematurely dismissing the entire conversation with the wrong premise (that this was only in relation to the US) unless I agree with Dave?

Wow.

See? You are still doing it. You are insufferable. How are you not ashamed of this?!

 

[ch33zw1z]

I can't call you out for dismissing with the wrong premise (that this was only in relation to the US) unless I agree with Dave?

Wow.

You are still doing it. How are you not ashamed of this?!

Ashamed of what? Read back thru the thread, you'll see where I understand his premise.

I'm not ashamed of keeping an open mind for the same reason you're not ashamed of acting like an idiot on the internet.

Instead of dancing around words, say something useful.

 

[ewdotson]

I think that's a bit ridiculous. But, not in the same ballpark as a town voting to remove a monument to slavers from public property. Not destroyed, just not commemorated by the town and moved to a historical type of building.

We can remember our history without celebrating the negative parts of it.

Yup. For example, Huntsville has a Confederate monument outside its courthouse. Its inscription reads, "In memory of the heroes who fell in defense of the principles which gave birth to the Confederate cause".

Folks here have raised money to have it moved from the courthouse to a Confederate graveyard. The state AG's response, "lulz, no."

 

[CZroe]

Ashamed of what? Read back thru the thread, you'll see where I understand his premise.

I'm not ashamed of keeping an open mind for the same reason you're not ashamed of acting like an idiot on the internet.

Instead of dancing around words, say something useful.

I did and you disingenuously responded as if the conversation were exclusively about "monuments built to commemorate slavery defenders" in order to dismiss what I was saying about the pyramid labor force.

Hundreds of years is a long time to go without ever changing the labor force.

I have no doubt that there were slaves in ancient Egypt. However, the amount of labor required to build the pyramids was certainly much more than the ancient Egyptians had in slaves. The most likely explanation then, that accounts for the size of the labor force required, is that laboring on the pyramids for a few months of every year was a means by which many, if not most, ancient Egyptians paid their taxes to the pharaoh. Which was a common system in ancient times.

Perhaps, but laboring to pay taxes still sounds like forced labor to me.

...and, again, they were built over so long a period that it's doubtful the same economics applied from start to finish. What place on Earth didn't have slavery at some point over the last thousand years? This is why I wouldn't go so far as to say that they were "probably" all done that way even if we could prove some were.

It's very doubtful that they were all built without slavery though entirely possible some were.

 

[Vic]

I don't see anything wrong with a city's citizens deciding what statues and monuments should be displayed on the city's public land and at the city's public expense, but apparently some people do.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yup. For example, Huntsville has a Confederate monument outside its courthouse. Its inscription reads, "In memory of the heroes who fell in defense of the principles which gave birth to the Confederate cause".

Folks here have raised money to have it moved from the courthouse to a Confederate graveyard. The state AG's response, "lulz, no."

Those pyramids tho

 

[ultimatebob]

The OP only mentioned Statues and Monuments so your point is either unintentionally uninformed or an intentional diversion.

Start a new thread or stick to the topic please.

Your my mechanic refused to work on my brakes until the master cylinder and slave cylinder names are changed type arguments are preposterous.

I'm not making this shit up. It was an actual conversation with software developers. This is probably why the "silent majority" is voting for Trump... if snowflakes like this ever got a real position of power, this country would be in serious trouble.

 

[CZroe]

I'm not making this shit up. It was an actual conversation with software developers. This is probably why the "silent majority" is voting for Trump... if snowflakes like this ever got a real position of power, this country would be in serious trouble.

Trump didnt get the majority of votes last time and next time hasn't happened yet.

 

[Vic]

I'm not making this shit up. It was an actual conversation with software developers. This is probably why the "silent majority" is voting for Trump... if snowflakes like this ever got a real position of power, this country would be in serious trouble.

Oh noes, an "actual conversation." But whatever rationale you need to silence speech you disagree with, right?

 

[zzyzxroad]

I'm not making this shit up. It was an actual conversation with software developers. This is probably why the "silent majority" is voting for Trump... if snowflakes like this ever got a real position of power, this country would be in serious trouble.

Sorry I quoted your wrong post. I should have quoted your original diversion when you started down this road and said OP has a good point. With that said update your responce to me.

Incase it isn't clear, my point is you are going off on a crazy tangent.

 

[Vic]

Perhaps, but laboring to pay taxes still sounds like forced labor to me.

...and, again, they were built over so long a period that it's doubtful the same economics applied from start to finish. What place on Earth didn't have slavery at some point over the last thousand years? This is why I wouldn't go so far as to say that they were "probably" all done that way even if we could prove some were.

It's very doubtful that they were all built without slavery though entirely possible some were.

I didn't say that the pyramids were built without slaves, I said that the scale of the projects was such that slave labor by itself would have been insufficient and/or uneconomic.

While taxation through labor was common in the ancient world. The subsistence farmers who made up the majority of the population rarely had access to any meaningful amount of currency with which to pay taxes, and it was in the pharaoh's/king's interests to keep the peasants working in between the harvest and plowing seasons.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I did and you disingenuously responded as if the conversation were exclusively about "monuments built to commemorate slavery defenders" in order to dismiss what I was saying about the pyramid labor force.

Hundreds of years is a long time to go without ever changing the labor force.


Perhaps, but laboring to pay taxes still sounds like forced labor to me.

...and, again, they were built over so long a period that it's doubtful the same economics applied from start to finish. What place on Earth didn't have slavery at some point over the last thousand years? This is why I wouldn't go so far as to say that they were "probably" all done that way even if we could prove some were.

It's very doubtful that they were all built without slavery though entirely possible some were.

I quoted your post in #35 instead of #33. So my bad there, but that certainly didn't stop you from being triggered. LoL.

And funny enough, you brought up churchill anyways, that's pretty cool haha

 

[CZroe]

I quoted your post in #35 instead of #33. So my bad there, but that certainly didn't stop you from being triggered. LoL.

And funny enough, you brought up churchill anyways, that's pretty cool haha

???

You mean I brought up the Churchill statue AGAIN, since #33 about the Churchill statue was my post too (and my first post in this thread).

Dave:
"All monuments"

zzyzxroad:
*insults Dave for implying that it goes beyond "confederate stuff that was put in place by racists during the jim crow era."

Me (#33):
*points out the Churchill statue to show that the conversation does go beyond "confederate stuff"*

I was ready to bring up the Edward Colston statue if he denied that the movement was also threatening monuments outside of America, but then you replied to me with the same dismissive misunderstanding about the scope as zzyzxroad.

Glad we could clear this up. Dave was obviously trying to start a conversation about more than just the confederate statues in the US. We can't just insist that it is and run off acting like that was a mic drop when it so clearly isn't.

 

[ch33zw1z]

???

You mean I brought up the Churchill statue AGAIN, since #33 about the Churchill statue was my post too (and my first post in this thread).

Dave:
"All monuments"

zzyzxroad:
*insults Dave for implying that it goes beyond "confederate stuff that was put in place by racists during the jim crow era."

Me (#33):
*points out the Churchill statue to show that the conversation does go beyond "confederate stuff"*

I was ready to bring up the Edward Colston statue if he denied that the movement was also threatening monuments outside of America, but then you replied to me with the same dismissive misunderstanding about the scope as zzyzxroad.

Glad we could clear this up. Dave was obviously trying to start a conversation about more than just the confederate statues in the US. We can't just insist that it is and run off acting like that was a mic drop when it so clearly isn't.

Maybe slow your roll. I quoted the wrong thing, and you jumped at the chance to attack someone.

I accept you're apology for acting like an asshat, and calling me disingenuous. I'm assuming you know what that word means.

Dave's trolling, that's it. He'll be back to act like an asshat too.

Your whattabout Churchill duly noted, and my previous posts stand.

 

[feralkid]

Vinegar boy?

You called it!

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't see anything wrong with a city's citizens deciding what statues and monuments should be displayed on the city's public land and at the city's public expense, but apparently some people do.

That sounds pretty reasonable. Of course, as we evolve toward a more liberal view of the world, a view we must move toward if the species is to survive, (there being only one race of human beings that actually differ only minutely and that owing only to geographic isolation and genetic drift), it is only natural that those folk most deeply embedded in the cultural standards of the past will do whatever they can to preserve those retrograde and wrong values that will destroy us. They do this because their self respect is tied to an identity that was based on the delusion that the so called race of people most adapted to manufacture vitamin D in cold, clothes-wearing climes with the concomitant lower levels of sunlight, makes them superior to folk who long before they came along had skin better adapted to prevent skin cancer. The way that people have adapted to the need to puff themselves up based on the stupidity of race superiority do so like all people who hate themselves do, by claiming some absurd notion that something outside of what they feel to be their worthless selves, if they simply identify with it, will actually fills their need to feel superior. All it does is make them the assholes they really and falsely believe themselves to be having been badly put down as children. We create what we fear and what we believe in is that the lies we were fed we are worthless are actually true.

It hurts to die to bigotry because it is love that can kill it and to truly love you have to also love yourself.

"Sunt hic etiam sua praemia laudi;
sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt.
Solve metus; feret haec aliquam tibi fama salutem."

"Here, too, the praiseworthy has its rewards;
there are tears for things and mortal things touch the mind.
Release your fear; this fame will bring you some safety."
Virgil, Aeneid, 1.461 ff.

 

[CZroe]

Maybe slow your roll. I quoted the wrong thing, and you jumped at the chance to attack someone.

I accept you're apology for acting like an asshat, and calling me disingenuous. I'm assuming you know what that word means.

Dave's trolling, that's it. He'll be back to act like an asshat too.

Your whattabout Churchill duly noted, and my previous posts stand.

Quoting the wrong post didn't change my response to you in any way what-so-ever so it's totally bizarre that you would imply I need to slow my roll. Quite the opposite (clearly).

Him (#09): [Ignoring OP's explicitly-stated scope] This is only about America

Me (#33): No it's not. [Real-world example]

You (#36): [Ignoring OP's explicitly-stated scope and the example I gave] Yes it is.

Me (#49): No. It. Is. Not. [2nd real world example]

You (#50): [Ignores ALL FOUR examples about the scope the OP intends to insult me and double-down on your declarations]

Me (#51): LOLWUT?! OK. [TRUTH BOMB]

How does you quoting the wrong post change anything about our exchange? It doesn't. It's your usual attempt to baselessly dismiss something, inadvertently confirming what I already said about your insufferable "contradict with dismissal" style of communication when you don't want to acknowledge something. This is getting old.

Both you and him claimed that this was just about America. You claimed that AFTER my correction, directly to me. I brought up the Churchill statue in England as irrefutable proof that this wasn't just about confederate statues or racism in America ...and what do you do? Dismiss it as my "whattabout." Figures. That's your insufferable modus operandi at work, exactly like I said before.

Suck it up, buttercup. Dave's thread is not exclusively about outrage toward American monuments no matter how hard you squirm.

 

[zzyzxroad]

???

I brought up tbe Churchill statue AGAIN, since #33 about the Churchill statue was my post too.

Dave:
"All monuments"

zzyzxroad:
*insults Dave for implying that it goes beyond "confederate stuff that was put in place by racists during the jim crow era."

Me (#33):
*points out the Churchill statue*

I was ready to bring up the Edward Colston statue if he denied that the movement was also threatening monuments outside of America, but then you replied to me with the same dismissive misunderstanding about the scope as zzyzxroad.

Glad we could clear this up. Dave was obviously trying to start a conversation about more than just the US so we don't just insist that it's limited to the US when it's not and run off acting like it was a mic drop.

I did not insult Dave. I pointed out that what needs to come down is the stuff that was put up by racists to intimidate the black community. His everything must come down message is ludicrous. Do you disagree with me on that?