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All Statues and Monuments must come down

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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
53,464
5,766
126
Dickhead just signed an executive order precluding any monuments on federal property from being taken down:

Jokes on him. There are very few confederate monuments on federal property. The vast majority are state, county and city property.

Idiot. What a dickless measure.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
11,835
6,294
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Jokes on him. There are very few confederate monuments on federal property. The vast majority are state, county and city property.

Idiot. What a dickless measure.
Yes, will have very little effect, and hopefully will be thrown out in 6 months.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
126
Jokes on him. There are very few confederate monuments on federal property. The vast majority are state, county and city property.

Idiot. What a dickless measure.
He did it in response to what was happening in DC. Arrested a bunch of people too. Put out a bunch of pictures for more people of interest.
 
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zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
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He did it in response to what was happening in DC. Arrested a bunch of people too. Put out a bunch of pictures for more people of interest.
He actually did it to pander to his base. Do you really think trump gives two shits about statues that are of him? The OMG ANTIFA crowd is eating this shit up.

His time would be much better spend sending a public announcement out asking folks in the US to please wear a mask because it is the American thing to do. Instead he focuses on dividing us.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
11,835
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mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
3,348
1,563
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Apparently this statue is triggering people too, oh gonna be moving a mountain before getting this removed. Freedom of religion is a bitch lol. People sure as shit are trying. The founder of the Satanic Temple next to the statue in question. Honestly i love this dude, this is the biggest middle finger to the cry baby christians i ever seen in my life. He deliberately erected this knowing their reaction, and knew no one can do shit about it lol.

1593284114078.png
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
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It ain't exactly Mount Rushmore but it is a mountain with stone carvings of people on the side"
 

zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,495
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It ain't exactly Mount Rushmore but it is a mountain with stone carvings of people on the side"
Are you a big fan of stone mountain? Are you proud of the movement that gave rise to it and others like it to memorialize this cause?
 
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sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
8,882
1,161
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In the latest move to change place names in light of U.S. racial history, leaders of the Democratic party in Orange County, California, are pushing to drop film legend John Wayne’s name, statue and other likenesses from the county’s airport because of his racist and bigoted comments.
In a 1971 Playboy magazine interview, Wayne makes bigoted statements against Black people, Native Americans and the LGBTQ community.

“I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don’t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.”

“I don’t feel guilty about the fact that five or 10 generations ago these people were slaves.”

“I don’t feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from Indians. Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival,” he said. “There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.”

Wayne called movies such as “Easy Rider” and “Midnight Cowboy” perverted, and used a gay slur to refer to the two main characters of the latter film.


www.jpg

WHY do we idolize these A-holes? What they say or believe means nothing, and should mean nothing. After all, they are not scholars or people of wisdom, THEY PLAY ACT for gods sake. They read lines someone else writes for them. They put on makeup and a costume and pretend they are something that they are not for the camera. And the same goes for sports figures and musicians. Just stick to the day job Mr Wayne. Oh, I forgot, you're dead. You're a dead A-hole.
 

zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,495
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In the latest move to change place names in light of U.S. racial history, leaders of the Democratic party in Orange County, California, are pushing to drop film legend John Wayne’s name, statue and other likenesses from the county’s airport because of his racist and bigoted comments.
In a 1971 Playboy magazine interview, Wayne makes bigoted statements against Black people, Native Americans and the LGBTQ community.

“I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don’t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.”

“I don’t feel guilty about the fact that five or 10 generations ago these people were slaves.”

“I don’t feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from Indians. Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival,” he said. “There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.”

Wayne called movies such as “Easy Rider” and “Midnight Cowboy” perverted, and used a gay slur to refer to the two main characters of the latter film.


View attachment 24340

WHY do we idolize these A-holes? What they say or believe means nothing, and should mean nothing. After all, they are not scholars or people of wisdom, THEY PLAY ACT for gods sake. They read lines someone else writes for them. They put on makeup and a costume and pretend they are something that they are not for the camera. And the same goes for sports figures and musicians. Just stick to the day job Mr Wayne. Oh, I forgot, you're dead. You're a dead A-hole.
That's regoddamndiculous.

 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
16,515
5,730
136
Jokes on him. There are very few confederate monuments on federal property. The vast majority are state, county and city property.

Idiot. What a dickless measure.

I read only about 18% are located on public grounds. I feel this is a kind of limp wristed time buying measure on the part of slavery and treason defenders. These people have been commissioning new homages to the Confederacy on private property now. I expect we'll see an explosion of them in the South in the not too distant future. Sad stuff.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
126
Are you a big fan of stone mountain? Are you proud if the movement that gave rise to it and others like it to memorialize this cause?
No and no.

...unless you mean geologic activity giving "rise" to the mound of granite itself. I'm very much a fan of that.

...and the laser show. That part is cool.

...except the part where they animate these dudes into their carving positions and then light up the carving. That part's not cool. The rest of the park is "meh."

Just reporting on it because it's the biggest monument I've seen seriously proposed for removal yet and has some parallels with the facetious suggestion that Mount Rushmore could be next. I thought that was obvious.

That's Rigoddamndiculous.

[/i]

FTFY

I read only about 18% are located on public grounds. I feel this is a kind of limp wristed time buying measure on the part of slavery and treason defenders. These people have been commissioning new homages to the Confederacy on private property now. I expect we'll see an explosion of them in the South in the not too distant future. Sad stuff.
"Limp-wristed" is a dig at homosexuals trying to look effeminate. Pretty close to homophobic slur territory here.
 
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zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,495
1,537
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No and no.

...unless you mean geologic activity giving "rise" to the mound of granite itself. I'm very much a fan of that.

...and the laser show. That part is cool.

...except the part where they animate these dudes into their carving positions and then light up the carving. That part's not cool. The rest of the park is "meh."

Just reporting on it because it's the biggest monument I've seen seriously proposed for removal yet and has some parallels with the facetious suggestion that Mount Rushmore could be next. I thought that was obvious.


FTFY


"Limp-wristed" is a dig at homosexuals trying to look effeminate. Pretty close to homophobic slur territory here.
Thanks for fixing a made up word. Mount Rushmore has ties back to the second rise of the KKK? Was Mount Rushmore carved out as part of a horrible nationwide movement? This is slippery slop BS.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
126
Thanks for fixing s made up world. Mount Rushmore has ties back to the second rise of the KKK? Was Mount Rushmore carved out as part of a horrible nationwide movement? This is slippery slop BS.
Was I the one making Mount Rushmore comparisons with "slippery slope" arguments? No. I'm responding to it. Was I the one who came up with the premise of this thread? Again: No. I am responding to it.

I'm merely responding to those who did while reporting something relevant. It literally couldn't be more on-topic with the thread and specific discussions within. Please direct your reeeeedicule elsewhere and stop trying to read between the lines when there's literally nothing there. The only concern I might have with the people wanting to tear it down is that is could get expensive.

...and she doesn't seem to realize that she keeps contradicting herself with "no peace" and "peaceful."
 

zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,495
1,537
106
Was I the one making Mount Rushmore comparisons with "slippery slope" arguments? No. I'm responding to it. Was I the one who came up with the premise of this thread? Again: No. I am responding to it.

I'm merely responding to those who did while reporting something relevant. It literally couldn't be more on-topic with the thread and specific discussions within. Please direct your reeeeedicule elsewhere and stop trying to read between the lines when there's literally nothing there. The only concern I might have with the people wanting to tear it down is that is could get expensive.

...and she doesn't seem to realize that she keeps contradicting herself with "no peace" and "peaceful."
You're the one who mentioned parallels.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
126
You're the one who mentioned parallels.
I sure did: It's large, it's a mountain, and it has dead people carved into the side.

That comparison didn't warrant re-reading the entire thread just to give everyone referencing Mount Rushmore a personal response when my goal was simply reporting news very relevant to the thread.

The Rushmore reference was literally just "it ain't quite Rushmore" which mockingly draws attention to the size that dwarfs most of the other stuff we've been discussing... except Rushmore. You completely misread the tone if you thought I was defending the carvings on Stone Mountain.
 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
7,168
2,349
136
Screw it
If foxnews idiots can regurgitate what they heard on TV, I can repost crap from social media

From someone who teaches AP US History:
If you are confused as to why so many Americans are defending the confederate flag, monuments, and statues right now, I put together a quick Q&A, with questions from a hypothetical person with misconceptions and answers from my perspective as an AP U.S. History Teacher:

Q: What did the Confederacy stand for?
A: Rather than interpreting, let's go directly to the words of the Confederacy's Vice President, Alexander Stephens. In his "Cornerstone Speech" on March 21, 1861, he stated "The Constitution... rested upon the equality of races. This was an error. Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Q: But people keep saying heritage, not hate! They think the purpose of the flags and monuments are to honor confederate soldiers, right?
A: The vast majority of confederate flags flying over government buildings in the south were first put up in the 1960's during the Civil Rights Movement. So for the first hundred years after the Civil War ended, while relatives of those who fought in it were still alive, the confederate flag wasn't much of a symbol at all. But when Martin Luther King, Jr. and John Lewis were marching on Washington to get the Civil Rights Act (1964) and Voting Rights Act (1965) passed, leaders in the south felt compelled to fly confederate flags and put up monuments to honor people who had no living family members and had fought in a war that ended a century ago. Their purpose in doing this was to exhibit their displeasure with black people fighting for basic human rights that were guaranteed to them in the 14th and 15th Amendments but being withheld by racist policies and practices.

Q: But if we take down confederate statues and monuments, how will we teach about and remember the past?
A: Monuments and statues pose little educational relevance, whereas museums, the rightful place for Confederate paraphernalia, can provide more educational opportunities for citizens to learn about our country's history. The Civil War is important to learn about, and will always loom large in social studies curriculum. Removing monuments from public places and putting them in museums also allows us to avoid celebrating and honoring people who believed that tens of millions of black Americans should be legal property.

Q: But what if the Confederate flag symbol means something different to me?
A: Individuals aren't able to change the meaning of symbols that have been defined by history. When I hang a Bucs flag outside my house, to me, the Bucs might represent the best team in the NFL, but to the outside world, they represent an awful NFL team, since they haven't won a playoff game in 18 years. I can't change that meaning for everyone who drives by my house because it has been established for the whole world to see. If a Confederate flag stands for generic rebellion or southern pride to you, your personal interpretation forfeits any meaning once you display it publicly, as its meaning takes on the meaning it earned when a failed regime killed hundreds of thousands of Americans in an attempt to destroy America and keep black people enslaved forever.

Q: But my uncle posted a meme that said the Civil War/Confederacy was about state's rights and not slavery?
A: "A state's right to what?" - John Green

Q: Everyone is offended about everything these days. Should we take everything down that offends anyone?
A: The Confederacy literally existed to go against the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the idea that black people are human beings that deserve to live freely. If that doesn't upset or offend you, you are un-American.

Q: Taking these down goes against the First Amendment and freedom of speech, right?
A: No. Anyone can do whatever they want on their private property, on their social media, etc. Taking these down in public, or having private corporations like NASCAR ban them on their properties, has literally nothing to do with the Bill of Rights.

Q: How can people claim to be patriotic while supporting a flag that stood for a group of insurgent failures who tried to permanently destroy America and killed 300,000 Americans in the process?
A: No clue.

Q: So if I made a confederate flag my profile picture, or put a confederate bumper sticker on my car, what am I declaring to my friends, family, and the world?
A: That you support the Confederacy. To recap, the Confederacy stands for: slavery, white supremacy, treason, failure, and a desire to permanently destroy Selective history as it supports white supremacy.
It’s no accident that:
You learned about Helen Keller instead of W.E.B, DuBois
You learned about the Watts and L.A. Riots, but not Tulsa or Wilmington.
You learned that George Washington’s dentures were made from wood, rather than the teeth from slaves.
You learned about black ghettos, but not about Black Wall Street.
You learned about the New Deal, but not “red lining.”
You learned about Tommie Smith’s fist in the air at the 1968 Olympics, but not that he was sent home the next day and stripped of his medals. (correction - Both athletes were expelled and sent home by a U.S. Olympic Committee that tried unsuccessfully to strip their medals. Smith was subsequently rendered a pariah, even hounded by FBI agents as he tried to make a living as a track coach. )
You learned about “black crime,” but white criminals were never lumped together and discussed in terms of their race.
You learned about “states rights” as the cause of the Civil War, but not that slavery was mentioned 80 times in the articles of secession.
Privilege is having history rewritten so that you don’t have to acknowledge uncomfortable facts.
Racism is perpetuated by people who refuse to learn or acknowledge this reality.
You have a choice. - Jim Golden
 

zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,495
1,537
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I sure did: It's large, it's a mountain, and it has dead people carved into the side.

That comparison didn't warrant re-reading the entire thread just to give everyone referencing Mount Rushmore a personal response when my goal was simply reporting news very relevant to the thread.

The Rushmore reference was literally just "it ain't quite Rushmore" which mockingly draws attention to the size that dwarfs most of the other stuff we've been discussing... except Rushmore. You completely misread the tone if you thought I was defending the carvings on Stone Mountain.
You posted an article and I simply posted to make sure you understand that monument from the article should actually be removed. We are agree on that I assume? No need to get defensive pal.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
126
You posted an article and I simply posted to make sure you understand that monument from the article should actually be removed. We are agree on that I assume? No need to get defensive pal.
If you "simply" posted to make sure I understood that the mountain carving should actually be removed, then what was with this post...

Mount Rushmore has ties back to the second rise of the KKK? Was Mount Rushmore carved out as part of a horrible nationwide movement? This is slippery slop BS.
???

You said this AFTER I told you I wasn't a fan of the carving and wasn't proud of it. You acted like I was making a "BS" slippery slope argument using Mount Rushmore as a false equivalency to protect a racist KKK-afiliated mountain monument. You already knew I wasn't defending it and you still reacted that way... as if to shame me as a racist supporter of the carvings at Stone Mountain, GA. Nothing could be further from the truth. Even 30 years ago I was asking my teachers why it was OK to honor Civil War figures at Stone Mountain and treat them like they were heroes. I was never satisfied with their answers.

Now, removing it would likely cost tens of millions, especially since the surrounding park is privately managed with a long-term contract that probably hinges on that attraction (laser show is literally done with mirrors on the carvings). So while I feel it should be removed eventually I don't really see a quick "satisfy the protestors" path to that. If they'd have to spend millions blasting it off then they might as well spend a bit more to honor something else and continue having a centerpiece attraction for the park.

It wouldn't be the first time they changed the carving. It actually started out as a much larger carving and they had already finished heads before shaving it off and going with this one. Here's how they would have compared if it were finished:


Speaking of size, I mistakenly assumed Rushmore was significantly larger earlier.

It wasn't, though making sculpted forms out of natural rock formations is a lot more impressive than a relief carving.

It's actually against state law to alter the carving even though it started out privately owned. Laws can be changed, of course, and that's a good one for the chopping block. If it ever happens, who knows what they'll do with it. When I was a kid I had ridiculous fantasies of hollowing out the mountain into the world's largest indoor room!
 
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Mar 11, 2004
20,542
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You posted an article and I simply posted to make sure you understand that monument from the article should actually be removed. We are agree on that I assume? No need to get defensive pal.
He's just asking questions! :eek:

I do get a chuckle that he's bitching about people "reading between the lines" considering how he seems to deliberately make arguments in ways so that he can then quibble about pointless minutia in the dumbest manner possible (gee I wonder why people might ask him if he's openly tacitly supporting racist monument by posting a video about one and saying "it sure is a mountain alright, mhmm" while he's been defending a ridiculously stupid argument the entire thread, what else is there to do but read between the lines?). Plus, maybe he should take his own advice considering he out of nowhere started acting like anyone suggested his video was off topic (which no one did).

I can't be bothered to check, did the "brother" already check in to offer a glib defense of the other after the one made a fool of himself with a foolish argument?

I'll keep saying it as long as they keep doing it, it'd be nice if they'd at least honk their noses when they're doing their clownshows.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
126
"it sure is a mountain alright, mhmm"
"It ain't exactly Mount Rushmore but it is a mountain with stone carvings of people on the side [link]"
...in a thread with Mount Rushmore mentioned in the OP.

As we all know, you can't link news in P&N without some stated context, relevance, or commentary. As simple as it was, he misjudged/projected then dug in his heels even after that was clear. You did not learn from his mistake and chose to follow his lead.

Try again.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,503
486
126
Statues and monuments do ALL need to be taken down but it has little to do with the current social climate. They're a ridiculous symbol of vanity and suggest that our troubled history is somehow magical while we are of no relevance today, else we just keep cluttering up the place with more and more of them?

I'm fine with artistic ones, say the statue of liberty or the eiffel tower, but yeah, the pyramids need taken down if we ever decide that we need the land for something else.

Now let's talk about Dubai. Absurd, and built by essentially slave labor so let's level it!
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,249
3,475
136
Trump claims he will veto the defense bill that has removing confederate names from military bases in it. Love to see this overrided. Dumb ass doesn't know enough about politics that he's putting his Republican congress critters in the lime light over this.

 

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
5,946
2,826
136
On one hand, good. Divert that money to social programs.

On the other, wtf?

“I will Veto the Defense Authorization Bill if the Elizabeth ‘Pocahontas’ Warren (of all people!) Amendment...
 

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