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All lives matter BOOED! Only black lives matter.

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eskimospy said:
Funny, I don't think I've ever called him an idiot or a liar. If you simply look in this thread you'll see that realibrad and I completely disagree on this issue but I've never once questioned his intellect or his integrity. Have you wondered why that is?

You have to remember that your proud ignorance and your dishonesty are your fault, not the fault of those who point it out to you. You really should stop trying to blame other people for your failures.
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lol Point taken. You are a step above many progressives in being able to tolerate at least limited dissent.

Can you actually admit that realibrad has valid points on this issue?
 
dank69 said:
What is this one cause of racism?
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Scientific ignorance. Science has thus far shown that we are equal in terms of biology as it relates to our brains. There are obvious physical differences such as skin pigmentation, but we as a species are closer than we have ever been before. So, the only way to be racist is to be ignorant of this fact. If someone knows that biologically we are equal, but chooses to treat people differently, it inherently stops being about race.

If someone does not think races are inherently better or worse, they are not racist. They might very well be bigots, but they are not racist.

So one cause, ignorance. If you are not ignorant and still treat people unequally, its not racism but prejudice. That is not a semantic difference either.
 
realibrad said:
Scientific ignorance. Science has thus far shown that we are equal in terms of biology as it relates to our brains. There are obvious physical differences such as skin pigmentation, but we as a species are closer than we have ever been before. So, the only way to be racist is to be ignorant of this fact. If someone knows that biologically we are equal, but chooses to treat people differently, it inherently stops being about race.

If someone does not think races are inherently better or worse, they are not racist. They might very well be bigots, but they are not racist.

So one cause, ignorance. If you are not ignorant and still treat people unequally, its not racism but prejudice. That is not a semantic difference either.
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Or to willfully ignore it. Mary Hamilton took a case against the State of Alabama all the way to the Supreme Court to win the right to be addressed as Miss Hamilton instead of Mary - a right accorded by custom to whites. Obviously there can be no imagined biological inferiority that accounts for this; there was only a need for such an inferiority. A way of elevating white people by according them rights of no real consequence or advantage that were denied to black people, of elevating themselves by pushing someone else down. No matter how worthless, unlucky, poor, etc. a white person might be, he or she was elevated by the state to a position higher than any black person, at least in this regard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_v._Alabama_(1964)

This was in 1963. The Alabama Supreme Court ruled against her, and even when the US Supreme Court ruled in her favor, three justices dissented.

And less than half a century later, we elected a black President. Not too shabby considering that it took us damned near a century to move black people from not being property to actual legal equality.
 
werepossum said:
Or to willfully ignore it. Mary Hamilton took a case against the State of Alabama all the way to the Supreme Court to win the right to be addressed as Miss Hamilton instead of Mary - a right accorded by custom to whites. Obviously there can be no imagined biological inferiority that accounts for this; there was only a need for such an inferiority. A way of elevating white people by according them rights of no real consequence or advantage that were denied to black people, of elevating themselves by pushing someone else down. No matter how worthless, unlucky, poor, etc. a white person might be, he or she was elevated by the state to a position higher than any black person, at least in this regard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_v._Alabama_(1964)

This was in 1963. The Alabama Supreme Court ruled against her, and even when the US Supreme Court ruled in her favor, three justices dissented.

And less than half a century later, we elected a black President. Not too shabby considering that it took us damned near a century to move black people from not being property to actual legal equality.
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Well, if you know all races are equal, but you choose to ignore that fact and treat people differently, you are not racist. To be racist, you have to believe a race is better/worse than another. If you know that not to be true, but treat people unequally, then you are prejudiced. And if someone chooses to be stupid, then there is nothing to do, but its not racism any longer.
 
realibrad said:
Well, if you know all races are equal, but you choose to ignore that fact and treat people differently, you are not racist. To be racist, you have to believe a race is better/worse than another. If you know that not to be true, but treat people unequally, then you are prejudiced. And if someone chooses to be stupid, then there is nothing to do, but its not racism any longer.
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Technically you are correct, but I can't help thinking that racist people really do believe that black people are inferior even if they can't figure out how. I think they have to believe that in their hearts, otherwise they would have to admit that they are horrible people for choosing to treat people badly without any justification.
 
werepossum said:
Technically you are correct, but I can't help thinking that racist people really do believe that black people are inferior even if they can't figure out how. I think they have to believe that in their hearts, otherwise they would have to admit that they are horrible people for choosing to treat people badly without any justification.
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Many want to believe they are better than other people. It gives them a sense of power. You see this happening in many areas in society. In games, you see people go to very low level areas to PK people who cannot defend themselves. Cops bully people and bait them so they can use their power. But, that is something very different than racism.

Racism is the believe that a race is better/worse than another. That becomes the justification to treat people unequally. If you take away the argument that races are not equal, then you will find a great many stop doing shitty things to different races. We see this happening every generation for the past 100 years.

Each generation has gained a little in terms of equality. The problem has been that society has many times done it in a very stupid way. We gave black men the right to vote, but made damn sure to not let women vote. We allowed interracial marriage, but fuck gay people. Now we have a movement that is focusing on injustice for one group, and we are likely to miss the bigger picture if history shows us anything on this.

The sad part is that many people get caught up in rhetoric and emotion, and don't stop to think about the logic. The fact that I say that all lives matter should be the argument has gotten me placed in the camp of racists by people that are more than smart enough to fall into that trap.

Time for dinner.
 
realibrad said:
Many want to believe they are better than other people. It gives them a sense of power. You see this happening in many areas in society. In games, you see people go to very low level areas to PK people who cannot defend themselves. Cops bully people and bait them so they can use their power. But, that is something very different than racism.

Racism is the believe that a race is better/worse than another. That becomes the justification to treat people unequally. If you take away the argument that races are not equal, then you will find a great many stop doing shitty things to different races. We see this happening every generation for the past 100 years.

Each generation has gained a little in terms of equality. The problem has been that society has many times done it in a very stupid way. We gave black men the right to vote, but made damn sure to not let women vote. We allowed interracial marriage, but fuck gay people. Now we have a movement that is focusing on injustice for one group, and we are likely to miss the bigger picture if history shows us anything on this.

The sad part is that many people get caught up in rhetoric and emotion, and don't stop to think about the logic. The fact that I say that all lives matter should be the argument has gotten me placed in the camp of racists by people that are more than smart enough to fall into that trap.

Time for dinner.
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Agreed, and well said.
 
werepossum said:
Awesome post, but unfortunately totally wasted. To a proggie/SJW, there is generally one very narrow correct position on every issue. All valid points exist within that very narrow correct position, and anything less than total adherence to that very narrow correct position makes one an idiot or evil. Eskimospy will simply tell you that you are an idiot or a liar and Moonie will tell you that you have a brain defect.
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Do you actually believe this, or do you just post that up as a reflex?

The very same can be said about conservatives who post on here, but nothing is said about them.

So, what's the point of saying it about "SJWs" and "Proggies", besides just trying to throw your tribal signs out so no one forgets which side you fight for?
 
nickqt said:
Do you actually believe this, or do you just post that up as a reflex?

The very same can be said about conservatives who post on here, but nothing is said about them.

So, what's the point of saying it about "SJWs" and "Proggies", besides just trying to throw your tribal signs out so no one forgets which side you fight for?
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About half belief and half tweaking. And of course the same is said about conservatives here; you say it, and others like you.

As far as saying it about "SJWs" and "Proggies", I think it's important to differentiate between liberals, who are admirable if sometimes impractical, and "SJWs" and "Proggies" who are generally not. A liberal believes you are wrong, and will tell you why, but respects your right to hold that opinion. A proggie thinks you are evil or insane and wants you crushed. (Only for the common good of course.)

Remember that I agree with the left (sometimes the far left) maybe 1/3 of the time, and at other times I agree with the right philosophically but with the left practically. An example of the latter would be individual tax cuts as stimulus. Philosophically I agree with the right about government taking less of what I earn. Practically speaking I agree with the left; they don't work well, and won't as long as most of our discretionary spending is on foreign-made products. So the side I fight for can switch remarkably quickly. Can you say the same? Is there a single issue on which you would agree the right, conservatives, and/or Republicans are morally and/or practically correct?

Remember too that I am a Southpark libertarian. I believe that conservatives are wrong on just about everything; I just believe that progressives are worse.
 
werepossum said:
About half belief and half tweaking. And of course the same is said about conservatives here; you say it, and others like you.

As far as saying it about "SJWs" and "Proggies", I think it's important to differentiate between liberals, who are admirable if sometimes impractical, and "SJWs" and "Proggies" who are generally not. A liberal believes you are wrong, and will tell you why, but respects your right to hold that opinion. A proggie thinks you are evil or insane and wants you crushed. (Only for the common good of course.)

Remember that I agree with the left (sometimes the far left) maybe 1/3 of the time, and at other times I agree with the right philosophically but with the left practically. An example of the latter would be individual tax cuts as stimulus. Philosophically I agree with the right about government taking less of what I earn. Practically speaking I agree with the left; they don't work well, and won't as long as most of our discretionary spending is on foreign-made products. So the side I fight for can switch remarkably quickly. Can you say the same? Is there a single issue on which you would agree the right, conservatives, and/or Republicans are morally and/or practically correct?

Remember too that I am a Southpark libertarian. I believe that conservatives are wrong on just about everything; I just believe that progressives are worse.
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Well, there we go.

I agree with actual, conservative policies, but just as you separate liberals from "progressives" and "SJWs", I do the same regarding conservative policies and Republicans, or the US Conservative Movement, which I would accurately describe as reactionary, rather than conservative.

In fact, I lament the Republican party going batshit insane, because if they were still a useful party attempting to moderate liberals, our system would still be mostly functional. Unfortunately, it's become an issue where to remain a Republican in the US in most districts, you have to check mark 6 or 7 key boxes, otherwise your RINO'd out through a primary challenge.
 
nickqt said:
Well, there we go.

I agree with actual, conservative policies, but just as you separate liberals from "progressives" and "SJWs", I do the same regarding conservative policies and Republicans, or the US Conservative Movement, which I would accurately describe as reactionary, rather than conservative.

In fact, I lament the Republican party going batshit insane, because if they were still a useful party attempting to moderate liberals, our system would still be mostly functional. Unfortunately, it's become an issue where to remain a Republican in the US in most districts, you have to check mark 6 or 7 key boxes, otherwise your RINO'd out through a primary challenge.
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lol Ah, you're an Andrew Sullivan conservative.
 
werepossum said:
lol Ah, you're an Andrew Sullivan conservative.
Click to expand...
I'm not a conservative, but I agree with some conservative policies and believe a conservative party that isn't batshit insane has a place in a shitty-but-it's-all-we-got, first-past-the-post electoral system.
 
davmat787: I don't need to imagine or give specific examples, the answer is your exact life experiences. Were those the entirety of mine, I can accept I would have your world view.

M: You accept it because you accept it; it's a belief that you have which provides you with a kind of emotional comfort, a sense of egalitarianism. For me it is a complete hypothetical with no practical application. It's unknowable that can never be tested. My question was different. I asked you to imagine what kinds of experiences you can imagine that would lead you to think as I do. I already know what it is like to think like you do. I want you to see what it would take to see thinks like I do. You are not interested in that it would seem.

d: Now I ask if you can accept the corollary to be true: That if the entirety of my lifes experiences were instead experienced by you, can you accept the premise that you might have my viewpoints?

M: I thought like you do right up to the moment I accepted the fact that that life as I was sure it had to be, had no actual meaning.

d: I guarantee that you are in no way qualified to make such baseless and blanket claims. I could probably make you cry with real life personal and familial tragedies but this isn't the place, I'm not interested in doing so, nor are you the proper audience.

M: Do you really think that I know what I know without near infinite tears?

Any personal ego issues you allude to are simply meaningless on the scale I refer too. The fears from long ago you mention and their supposed influence today are laughable, they are relatively joyous daydreams in comparison. Events force one to not live in the past as the alternative is simply unbearable.

In short your psycho analysis doesn't apply, I couldn't be here if it did.

M: Since I do not know of what you speak but feel that I have reminded you of personal sufferings, let me respectfully withdraw from this discussion.
 
werepossum said:
Technically you are correct, but I can't help thinking that racist people really do believe that black people are inferior even if they can't figure out how. I think they have to believe that in their hearts, otherwise they would have to admit that they are horrible people for choosing to treat people badly without any justification.
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Or they just point to Chicago. Inner city violence is quiet remarkable.
Then there's Africa whose nations got to skip the great advances of other civilizations and fall prey to slavery or genocide like the Native Americans did... but that state of ruin sets Africa apart from much of the world and people can easily and ignorantly point to it as an excuse.

Then there's the simple plain old "people don't like me... I don't like them".
Being mistreated tends to instill hate and bigotry and racism into people.
 
werepossum said:
lol Point taken. You are a step above many progressives in being able to tolerate at least limited dissent.

Can you actually admit that realibrad has valid points on this issue?
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Sure. I think he is wrong, (otherwise we wouldn't be disagreeing), but his arguments aren't crazy or stupid, they are pretty reasonable. I just think in this case they come from a misunderstanding of what the movement is about.

Even if they were crazy, I think he approaches things in an honest and thoughtful way, which deserves a lot of latitude.
 
... ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity! --'Big Daddy'

Washington Post: To make black lives matter, black people need to believe it
“We are black, ours is a black community,” May said. “We must educate our people.”

She recalled that some have wondered whether police are required to perform CPR on residents who are wounded in the street. She has told them that she knows a certified CPR teacher.

“She can train people how to perform potentially life-saving procedures so we don’t have to wait around for police,” May said.

That would certainly be one way to show that black lives matter. Getting people to stop shooting each other would be even better.
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St. Louis and Baltimore Face Record Homicide Rates Since #BlackLivesMatter Riots

Baltimore killings soar to a level unseen in 43 years

Sniff, sniff, sniff...

Uno
 
unokitty said:
... ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity! --'Big Daddy'

Washington Post: To make black lives matter, black people need to believe it


St. Louis and Baltimore Face Record Homicide Rates Since #BlackLivesMatter Riots

Baltimore killings soar to a level unseen in 43 years

Sniff, sniff, sniff...

Uno
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Drug dealers, gang members, looters, and the people who live in those communities are all the same right? And some, I assume are good people.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

It's funny to hear our white residents complain about jobs under Obama and then ridicule people with a different skin color clamoring for the same thing. Not only that but when politicians are faced with the option of voting for job training programs for Americans these same posters say no and support those politicians that vote no. Then they come up with some bullshit why we have the results we do despite these issues coming up time and time again since this country's inception.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/07...-bill-create-1-million-jobs-young-people.html

Of course the year before it they were all for it.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-acti...passes-authorization-of-job-training-programs

Hmmm...I wonder what changed from 2014 to 2015?
 
PokerGuy said:
Ok, now they are finally showing their complete insanity. It's funny to see this movement just implode with stupidity, unfortunately torpedoing whatever good intentions might have existed.

Now, saying "all lives matter" is a "violent statement". Nope, I'm not kidding. 😀

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/blacklivesmatter-activist-to-cnn-all-lives-matter-is-a-violent-statement/
Click to expand...
What's funny is that silly liberals are laughed at, and yet silly conservatives are treated like VerySeriousPeople.
 
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