All lives matter BOOED! Only black lives matter.

[dank69]

So in your view, because we cant yet see a solution to racism, we are better off not trying and just focusing on the symptoms. If you believe that police brutality is a symptom of racism, then how do you stop police brutality based on racism? I would bet that you don't pass a law that address brutality based just off of race. I bet you would advocate for something that addresses all police brutality.

I will leave that last question for you to dive into, because I think it points out clearly my stance.

Nowhere did he suggest that we don't also try to find a solution to racism.

Should we not treat the symptoms of cancer while we try to find a cure?

 

[ivwshane]

So in your view, because we cant yet see a solution to racism, we are better off not trying and just focusing on the symptoms. If you believe that police brutality is a symptom of racism, then how do you stop police brutality based on racism? I would bet that you don't pass a law that address brutality based just off of race. I bet you would advocate for something that addresses all police brutality.

I will leave that last question for you to dive into, because I think it points out clearly my stance.

Speaking of putting words in people's mouths!
Can you quote me where I said we shouldn't try and find solutions? No? Then what the fuck are you talking about? Do I believe police brutality is a symptom of racism? It can be but what I said was that it's two separate issues, one issue is the over-targeting of black people (via excessive force or not), and the other issue is the seemingly rise in the use of excessive force by the police.

You think they are one in the same, I do not.

 

[ivwshane]

Get rid of the concept of 'races'; that the colour of your skin means anything.

Ok and how do you do that?

 

[TheSlamma]

Get rid of the concept of 'races'; that the colour of your skin means anything.

What about history, culture and languages?

 

[CitizenKain]

Get rid of the concept of 'races'; that the colour of your skin means anything.

So magic then. Everyone wave your hands and believe!

 

[realibrad]

Nowhere did he suggest that we don't also try to find a solution to racism.

Should we not treat the symptoms of cancer while we try to find a cure?

Just to be clear, when you say, "I think that if you deal with racism", I think the statement has no value as there isn't a set way or as I said, a silver bullet that deals with racism.

What do you take that to mean? If my statement is meaningless, then its to imply that its pointless. I will give you that what he said is confusing. He said you have to deal with racism in with a multi-pronged approach and then said that my statement has no value. I did not put forth my ideas on how to deal with racism, so I may very well favor what he said (I do). But his claim was that "I think that if you deal with racism" has no value. That clearly implies that trying to target racism directly is wrong.

Most of his post there is very confusing to me. He says we should deal with racism, and that trying to treat racism is pointless.

 

[realibrad]

Speaking of putting words in people's mouths!
Can you quote me where I said we shouldn't try and find solutions? No? Then what the fuck are you talking about? Do I believe police brutality is a symptom of racism? It can be but what I said was that it's two separate issues, one issue is the over-targeting of black people (via excessive force or not), and the other issue is the seemingly rise in the use of excessive force by the police.

You think they are one in the same, I do not.

Show me where I said that police brutality towards backs is the only police brutality.

Police brutality is an issue for more than just blacks. I will say that it does affect blacks far more often than other groups, but the other groups are not trivial in size either. Police brutality absolutely is an ill for more than just blacks. Wanting equality for just "our people" is not equality, its just less discrimination for a select group, and that does not usually end well.

 

[ivwshane]

Show me where I said that police brutality towards backs is the only police brutality.

What I am saying is that police brutality and racism aren't the same nor can they be handled the same way but they are intertwined.

If that's what you are saying then we are on the same page.
When I said your words had no value I'm saying that "we need to handle racism", is a hollow point as you and I both know that there isn't a way to end racism. The confusion is that you seem to think co-opting black lives matter with a wider umbrella of all lives matter is a good thing where as I do not because they are separate but equally important issues. Solving one doesn't necessarily solve the other.

 

[realibrad]

What I am saying is that police brutality and racism aren't the same nor can they be handled the same way but they are intertwined.

Some police brutality comes from racism. If racism were dealt with, then the police brutality that came from racism would be solved. That would not solve all police brutality, as not all police brutality comes from racism.

If that's what you are saying then we are on the same page.

So I do believe we agree. I still have no idea why you thought I held any other view. I tried going back and seeing where you might have gotten that, and I still don't see it.

When I said your words had no value I'm saying that "we need to handle racism", is a hollow point as you and I both know that there isn't a way to end racism. The confusion is that you seem to think co-opting black lives matter with a wider umbrella of all lives matter is a good thing where as I do not because they are separate but equally important issues. Solving one doesn't necessarily solve the other.

So you are saying that there is not a way to end racism, so don't bother, but there is a way to deal with inequality toward blacks, so we should try to deal with that.

I am going to assume you will want to reword that, because I really doubt you believe that, but if you do then I am sorry you feel that way. There will come a time when racism as we know it will end. That does not mean people wont find other things to judge people unfairly on, but it wont be race.

As for separate but equal, I disagree here as well. One message includes equality for everyone, the other message excludes others inequality for a single group that is dealing with inequality. Inherently they cannot be equal as one includes all groups and the other excludes itself from the previous group.

There was a time when society used to believe that birth marks were a sign of being a witch. Through science we learned otherwise and because of that knowledge it would be very difficult to go back without losing that knowledge. If all the people that we classify as being part of different races are equal (I do believe) then the solution is to get the knowledge and research out. People will still find ways to justify their inequality, but it wont be based on race.

 

[boomerang]

There is no racism says member of a political party that regards anyone not white as lesser.

Your dogma is tired and old although I do understand why it would bring you comfort.

 

[Vic]

Your dogma is tired and old although I do understand why it would bring you comfort.

Which is the same reason you puked out your little paranoid conspiracy theory that he replied to. It brings you comfort.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Your dogma is tired and old although I do understand why it would bring you comfort.

I was going to comment as well, but didn't think there's anything I could possibly say to get that little light bulb to go off in his head.

 

[CitizenKain]

Your dogma is tired and old although I do understand why it would bring you comfort.

Yet you think minorities are going to rush to Republicans suddenly?

"Well sure, the republicans spent years making racist comments about black people in office, worked tirelessly to suppress our vote and regards all of us as thugs. But I think maybe now is the time to vote for them even more!"

That is something you think will happen, how precious.

 

[dank69]

Some police brutality comes from racism. If racism were dealt with, then the police brutality that came from racism would be solved. That would not solve all police brutality, as not all police brutality comes from racism.

If that's what you are saying then we are on the same page.

So I do believe we agree. I still have no idea why you thought I held any other view. I tried going back and seeing where you might have gotten that, and I still don't see it.



So you are saying that there is not a way to end racism, so don't bother, but there is a way to deal with inequality toward blacks, so we should try to deal with that.

I am going to assume you will want to reword that, because I really doubt you believe that, but if you do then I am sorry you feel that way. There will come a time when racism as we know it will end. That does not mean people wont find other things to judge people unfairly on, but it wont be race.

As for separate but equal, I disagree here as well. One message includes equality for everyone, the other message excludes others inequality for a single group that is dealing with inequality. Inherently they cannot be equal as one includes all groups and the other excludes itself from the previous group.

There was a time when society used to believe that birth marks were a sign of being a witch. Through science we learned otherwise and because of that knowledge it would be very difficult to go back without losing that knowledge. If all the people that we classify as being part of different races are equal (I do believe) then the solution is to get the knowledge and research out. People will still find ways to justify their inequality, but it wont be based on race.

There you go again. We can't "end" racism. That is an unrealistic goal. We can try to reduce it though, and we can try to reduce it while at the same time not minimizing the black lives matter issue.

 

[Vic]

I was going to comment as well, but didn't think there's anything I could possibly say to get that little light bulb to go off in his head.

You two are so right. There is no racism. It's all just a conspiracy by the Democrats to trick minority voters into voting themselves into government bondage.
You may now go back to your usual posts about how black people commit crimes at higher rates than whites so it's perfectly okay for police to shoot a 'thug' in the back, how all Muslims are radical terrorists trying to implement Sharia law, how all Hispanics need to be deported, and the gay agenda is to eventually make it legal to doodle little boys.
There is no bigotry.

 

[Vic]

There you go again. We can't "end" racism. That is an unrealistic goal. We can try to reduce it though, and we can try to reduce it while at the same time not minimizing the black lives matter issue.

I have zero expectation that racism will ever end. All I want is to make it impossible for bigots to use government as their instrument.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You two are so right. There is no racism. It's all just a conspiracy by the Democrats to trick minority voters into voting themselves into government bondage.
You may now go back to your usual posts about how black people commit crimes at higher rates than whites so it's perfectly okay for police to shoot a 'thug' in the back, how all Muslims are radical terrorists trying to implement Sharia law, how all Hispanics need to be deported, and the gay agenda is to eventually make it legal to doodle little boys.
There is no bigotry.

I NEVER said there was no racism. What the fuck is wrong with you? And how in the hell did you get so fucking stupid?

 

[waggy]

There you go again. We can't "end" racism. That is an unrealistic goal. We can try to reduce it though, and we can try to reduce it while at the same time not minimizing the black lives matter issue.

I disagree. I think we can. heck in the last 50 years it reduced a lot.

now i'm not saying we are close to it now. or that it will be ended in my life or even my grandkids lives.


i do think someday it will be done.

 

[realibrad]

Nowhere did he suggest that we don't also try to find a solution to racism.

Should we not treat the symptoms of cancer while we try to find a cure?

There you go again. We can't "end" racism. That is an unrealistic goal. We can try to reduce it though, and we can try to reduce it while at the same time not minimizing the black lives matter issue.

Do you really not see what you just did.

If racism is impossible, then we should not try to end it. I say that is his position, and you call me out. He then explicitly says that, and now its "well we cant so...".

Saying all lives matter should not minimize anything. If someone feels it does they are ignorant. I am egalitarian so I am for everyone having equal rights. I hope that one day we can get to a place where blacks are seen as equal by all people. That does not mean that I blindly follow popular movements for blacks.

Society has moved on from bigoted ideas before, and I see no reason why racism cannot have the same thing happen. People will always try and use reasons to treat people unequally, but there will come a time when race is not one of those things. Maybe you think that poorly of people that you think they can not grow out of racism. I believe that it will happen, so I guess that makes me an optimist.

 

[realibrad]

I disagree. I think we can. heck in the last 50 years it reduced a lot.

now i'm not saying we are close to it now. or that it will be ended in my life or even my grandkids lives.


i do think someday it will be done.

I am guessing you are a lot older than I am (29) but I think we both agree that there has been huge improvements in the last 50 years. Talking to people from the 50's and beyond, I learned just how racist people used to be just recently. If we can improve at the same rate, the racism will end a lot sooner than people think.

 

[ivwshane]

Do you really not see what you just did.

If racism is impossible, then we should not try to end it. I say that is his position, and you call me out. He then explicitly says that, and now its "well we cant so...".

Saying all lives matter should not minimize anything. If someone feels it does they are ignorant. I am egalitarian so I am for everyone having equal rights. I hope that one day we can get to a place where blacks are seen as equal by all people. That does not mean that I blindly follow popular movements for blacks.

Society has moved on from bigoted ideas before, and I see no reason why racism cannot have the same thing happen. People will always try and use reasons to treat people unequally, but there will come a time when race is not one of those things. Maybe you think that poorly of people that you think they can not grow out of racism. I believe that it will happen, so I guess that makes me an optimist.

That isn't my position at all and I don't even know how you could come to that conclusion. But to prove and clarify my point, can you tell me how we end racism?

 

[realibrad]

That isn't my position at all and I don't even know how you could come to that conclusion. But to prove and clarify my point, can you tell me how we end racism?

When I said your words had no value I'm saying that "we need to handle racism", is a hollow point as you and I both know that there isn't a way to end racism. The confusion is that you seem to think co-opting black lives matter with a wider umbrella of all lives matter is a good thing where as I do not because they are separate but equally important issues. Solving one doesn't necessarily solve the other.

That is where I got my understanding of your position from.

As for how to deal with racism, I touched on it in post 434. You do it with a scientific argument and logic. For someone to be racist, they have to believe someone is above or below another race because of biology. Anything outside of that is not racism but a form of bigotry. So, the key will be education and knowledge. For the same reason that society has moved on from birth defects as being a sign of a witch or the devil, so to will society move on past race. That does make the assumption that science will not prove that there are differences in race in terms of IQ and mental abilities, but I feel its a safe bet.

I will admit that what I have just said is far from a solution, but it points down the path that I feel will take us to the end. Like I said before, people will find something new, it just wont be about race anymore.

 

[dank69]

Do you really not see what you just did.

If racism is impossible, then we should not try to end it. I say that is his position, and you call me out. He then explicitly says that, and now its "well we cant so...".

Saying all lives matter should not minimize anything. If someone feels it does they are ignorant. ...

Bullshit. In fact, the opposite is true. "All lives matter" and "white lives matter" have become the latest dog whistles for racists to spout their racism while retaining plausible deniability. People who are ignorant of this trend, like O'Malley was, end up pissing people off when they didn't intend to.

 

[realibrad]

Bullshit. In fact, the opposite is true. "All lives matter" and "white lives matter" have become the latest dog whistles for racists to spout their racism while retaining plausible deniability. People who are ignorant of this trend, like O'Malley was, end up pissing people off when they didn't intend to.

Just because racists latch on to something does not mean that all lives matter is the wrong thing to shoot for. There was a time when animal rights was a big thing in the Nazi party, but it does not taint animal rights.

If racists start backing the idea that all lives matter, who loses? I have no doubt that racists try and latch onto things that sound good to hide their racism, but in this case, great. White lives matter is just as dumb as black lives matter in terms of progression.

Its not racist to say all lives matter, even if racists use it. What makes something racist is believing one race is above or below another. Saying everyone is equal is thus not racist. They may have racist goals, but the message is not racist.

What do you think is lost by people promoting equality? I dont mean that in a baiting way. Feel free to PM me and I will respond, but for the life of me I cannot understand the idea of segregating racial solutions.

 

[Vic]

I NEVER said there was no racism. What the fuck is wrong with you? And how in the hell did you get so fucking stupid?

But boomerang did and you agreed with him, so who's stupid?