All Barcelona Shipments Halted

[Phynaz]

"An industry source at a tier-two reseller told The Tech Report that the TLB erratum has led to a "stop ship" order on all Barcelona Opterons. When asked for comment, spokesman Phil Hughes said AMD is shipping Barcelona Opterons now, but only for "specific customer deals." "

 

[Stoneburner]

I think they meant to say the shipments were halted because nobody was buying.

 

[Pabster]

This can't be encouraging news for AMD.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Ouch!

The potential for instability with the TLB erratum can be corrected via BIOS-based workaround, but multiple sources have suggested the BIOS fix involves a substantial performance hit. AMD has publicly estimated the performance penalty for the BIOS fix could be around 10%, and one source pegged the penalty at 10-20%. AMD has acknowledged that the TLB erratum particularly affects virtualization, and industry sources say the performance hit from the fix may be most severe with virtualization, as well. Server administrators responsible for virtualized environments will probably want to wait for the B3-rev CPUs before upgrading.

Chip problem limits supply of quad-core Opterons from Tech Report

 

[Arkaign]

2007 is almost over. Let's hope 2008 brings some improvements to AMD's lineup! At least the 3850/3870 aren't garbage. And the old X2s are still decent enough bargains.

 

[Skott]

I dont see ATI keeping AMD afloat. AMD's main product is computer chips. ATI was in more debt at the time than AMD when the buyout happened but now AMD itself is losing money too with its cpu line. Both companies are hemoraging money hand over fist. I dont see one saving the other right now. ATI cant seem to compete effectively with nVidia and AMD cant effectively compete with Intel. The more money they lose the less money for R&D which is critical to both companies future. If the Price War of Attrition continues Intel will win. They have much deeper pockets to draw on.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Originally posted by: Skott
I dont see ATI keeping AMD afloat. AMD's main product is computer chips. ATI was in more debt at the time than AMD when the buyout happened but now AMD itself is losing money too with its cpu line. Both companies are hemoraging money hand over fist. I dont see one saving the other right now. ATI cant seem to compete effectively with nVidia and AMD cant effectively compete with Intel. The more money they lose the less money for R&D which is critical to both companies future. If the Price War of Attrition continues Intel will win. They have much deeper pockets to draw on.

ATI will help here and there but won't solve their problem entirelly. They're in really deep $#it and doesn't look too good for them in the next quarter either.
Someone told me that if they fix the Phenom Bug the cpu will gain almost 10% in performance but please don't quote me on that, like a said i was told.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Skott
I dont see ATI keeping AMD afloat.

You really only have to click this link to find out why that statement couldn't be correct. It's definitely a good thing that they released the 3800 series when they did.

 

[ELopes580]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Skott
I dont see ATI keeping AMD afloat.

You really only have to click this link to find out why that statement couldn't be correct. It's definitely a good thing that they released the 3800 series when they did.

Your statement doesn't prove anything at all either...... It doesn't prove what profits are being made.

 

[sonoran]

Originally posted by: Gikaseixas
Someone told me that if they fix the Phenom Bug the cpu will gain almost 10% in performance but please don't quote me on that, like a said i was told.

Question is can they fix the bug via BIOS/microcode update, or are they potentially looking at a recall situation? In either case - this won't help their reputation for producing reliable CPU's (a reputation they worked hard to earn after all the chipset debacles of years gone by).

 

[bradley]

Originally posted by: ELopes580

Your statement doesn't prove anything at all either...... It doesn't prove what profits are being made.

Shouldn't take you long to find a detailed report showing the profitable sectors for AMD this quarter... mostly mobile processing and graphics.

Originally posted by: sonoran
Question is can they fix the bug via BIOS/microcode update, or are they potentially looking at a recall situation? In either case - this won't help their reputation for producing reliable CPU's (a reputation they worked hard to earn after all the chipset debacles of years gone by).

Your guess (as to whether there's a major recall in AMD's future) is as good as anyone's. As for the microcode update hurting AMD, it didn't seem to affect Intel, just recently in fact. But I guess where there's light, especially after a major launch, there's heat. Will be interesting to see how this all transpires.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: ELopes580

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Skott
I dont see ATI keeping AMD afloat.

You really only have to click this link to find out why that statement couldn't be correct. It's definitely a good thing that they released the 3800 series when they did.

Your statement doesn't prove anything at all either...... It doesn't prove what profits are being made.

Umm, take a business class. Manufacturers don't sell products for less than it costs the company to make them. That means that if they're selling all that they can possibly make of a certain product, that product is generating profits.

 

[Accord99]

The problem is AMD's operating loss is over two hundred million dollars in the last quarter. AMD needs to sell millions of 3800s to have any impact on AMD's financial health.

 

[taltamir]

the phenom bug IS the tlb errata... the reason they are recalling the barcelona chips is because they are almost the same as phenom and both suffer from the same bug.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: ELopes580

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Skott
I dont see ATI keeping AMD afloat.

You really only have to click this link to find out why that statement couldn't be correct. It's definitely a good thing that they released the 3800 series when they did.

Your statement doesn't prove anything at all either...... It doesn't prove what profits are being made.

Worldwide sales of add-in Graphic cards for Q3 07 was 25.74 Million units...
If AMD can capture even 10% gain of that share with the 38xx cards, they will most likely break even in Q4.
Extremetech article

 

[NXIL]

Umm, take a business class. Manufacturers don't sell products for less than it costs the company to make them.

Dear Myo,

well, not always: inkjet printers are sold at below cost...they make money on the ink, of course.....right now DDR2 is being sold below cost in some instances, oversupply; cars: lots of small cars are sold at a loss, even factoring in reduced fines for failing to meet fuel efficiency standards. (Of course, GMs numbers look beyond atrocious, so here's another company which may not survive hemorrhaging red ink).

Sometimes cash flow is necessary--what's that expression, 'we lose money on every sale, but we make it up in volume?'

But yes, AMD cannot continue to sell products below cost forever, or, apparently, even much longer....which is a bummer. (Opty 170 here, great stable cool running machine....)

Apple was getting the stuffing beaten out of them for a while, lots of rumors that they would not make it. I hope AMD can effect such a turnaround. Competition is good....

NXIL

 

[wwswimming]

looks like this came out after the stock markets close.

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=AMD

be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.

they're still shipping Barcelona Phenom's.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: ELopes580

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Skott
I dont see ATI keeping AMD afloat.

You really only have to click this link to find out why that statement couldn't be correct. It's definitely a good thing that they released the 3800 series when they did.

Your statement doesn't prove anything at all either...... It doesn't prove what profits are being made.

Worldwide sales of add-in Graphic cards for Q3 07 was 25.74 Million units...
If AMD can capture even 10% gain of that share with the 38xx cards, they will most likely break even in Q4.
Extremetech article

Let's see, last quarter ATI market share was somewhere around 21% and has been dropping for a year. Now using your numbers let's give them >31% market share. There is no way 8 million video chips is supporting AMD. The profit from those 8 million chips - if they can sell that many - may just cover the interest on the ATI loan.

 

[NXIL]

And ouch....just read review of Phenom at Extremetech: it crashed on some of the benchmarks, including Adobe Aftereffects CS3, a pretty key application.

Lots of folks can handle a 10% performance decrease for a 10% price break, but, having your CPU lock up: that's unacceptable.

http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2226948,00.asp

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: NXIL
And ouch....just read review of Phenom at Extremetech: it crashed on some of the benchmarks, including Adobe Aftereffects CS3, a pretty key application.

Lots of folks can handle a 10% performance decrease for a 10% price break, but, having your CPU lock up: that's unacceptable.

http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2226948,00.asp

It is the motherboard causing the lockups. They were using a rev1 of that board that was pulled by ASUS (who notified the review sites not to use it after a certain website reported severe problems with it... )since it never worked correctly with Phenom. We just received the rev2 boards and they work fine. However, everyone but DFI has a lot of BIOS work left to do on these boards.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: NXIL
And ouch....just read review of Phenom at Extremetech: it crashed on some of the benchmarks, including Adobe Aftereffects CS3, a pretty key application.

Lots of folks can handle a 10% performance decrease for a 10% price break, but, having your CPU lock up: that's unacceptable.

http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2226948,00.asp

It is the motherboard causing the lockups. They were using a rev1 of that board that was pulled by ASUS (who notified the review sites not to use it after a certain website reported severe problems with it... )since it never worked correctly with Phenom. We just received the rev2 boards and they work fine. However, everyone but DFI has a lot of BIOS work left to do on these boards.

Thx for clarifying this. I highly doubt a cpu @ stock speeds can cause such issues.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: NXIL

Umm, take a business class. Manufacturers don't sell products for less than it costs the company to make them.

Dear Myo,

well, not always: inkjet printers are sold at below cost...they make money on the ink, of course.....right now DDR2 is being sold below cost in some instances, oversupply; cars: lots of small cars are sold at a loss, even factoring in reduced fines for failing to meet fuel efficiency standards. (Of course, GMs numbers look beyond atrocious, so here's another company which may not survive hemorrhaging red ink).

Sometimes cash flow is necessary--what's that expression, 'we lose money on every sale, but we make it up in volume?'

But yes, AMD cannot continue to sell products below cost forever, or, apparently, even much longer....which is a bummer. (Opty 170 here, great stable cool running machine....)

Apple was getting the stuffing beaten out of them for a while, lots of rumors that they would not make it. I hope AMD can effect such a turnaround. Competition is good....

NXIL

AMD doesn't sell any of their parts below cost...
If you lose money on every sale, then you would lose MORE in volume.
All you really need to do is calculate the cost of manufacturing a CPU (which can be done, except for the yield calculations), and you will see for yourself.

Brisbane dice (the largest volume by far) are 126 mm2, meaning that on a 300mm wafer you get ~504 candidate dice.
A wafer costs ~$5000 for SOI 300mm...
Even with a 60% yield (and Brisbane is reputed to be closer to 80%-90%), and including packaging and testing, you're still looking at a chip cost of ~$25.
AMD is still making a profit on each one sold...albeit at a very slim margin (probably as low as $1-2 at their lowest price point).

 

[NXIL]

Gary, thank you for the scoop on that--makes sense, as new chipsets always have issues. The article in question, from that site that shall remain nameless, implied that what they tested was current--they said something about how had had time to work out bug issues....

Again, thanks,

NXIL

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: ELopes580

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Skott
I dont see ATI keeping AMD afloat.

You really only have to click this link to find out why that statement couldn't be correct. It's definitely a good thing that they released the 3800 series when they did.

Your statement doesn't prove anything at all either...... It doesn't prove what profits are being made.

Worldwide sales of add-in Graphic cards for Q3 07 was 25.74 Million units...
If AMD can capture even 10% gain of that share with the 38xx cards, they will most likely break even in Q4.
Extremetech article

Let's see, last quarter ATI market share was somewhere around 21% and has been dropping for a year. Now using your numbers let's give them >31% market share. There is no way 8 million video chips is supporting AMD. The profit from those 8 million chips - if they can sell that many - may just cover the interest on the ATI loan.

Firstly, I said 10% of the total market, not last quarter's sales.
Secondly, AMD is getting quite the premium for those chips...at 55nm, the die size is only 192 mm2 (as opposed to the 315 mm2 of the 65nm version of the nVidia 8800GT and the 408 mm2 of AMD's R600 chips).
That means they get 326 candidate dice/wafer as opposed to 148 of the R600, and nVidia's 194 on their newest product...that's a 55% reduction in cost, and it's still 40% better than nVidia's latest.

My estimate is that HD38xx should give AMD an additional $300 million in revenue while cutting costs on GPUs by at least 40%...

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: Viditor
Firstly, I said 10% of the total market, not last quarter's sales.

The most optimistic estimates indicate AMD will be selling in the hundreds of thousands range at best. Nor is the video card market for >$200 cards that large to support millions of card sales per quarter.

My estimate is that HD38xx should give AMD an additional $300 million in revenue while cutting costs on GPUs by at least 40%...

$300 million is more than the entire graphics divisions revenue in the previous quarter. And far more importantly, AMD's problem is not revenue, it's profit.