ALIENWARE REACTS- DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SLI AND VIDEO ARRAY,... BUT WHERE´S ATI?

[eastvillager]

I think there are two possible approaches to this, SLI and SLI-like multi-card solutions, AND single card, MULTI-GPU solutions.

Honestly, this new bus is supposed to be increasing our bandwidth greatly, isn't in time to put two GPUs on the same card? Maybe multi-core GPUs?

 

[nitromullet]

Its not that I ignored them. I just didn't think they were worth acknowledgment. And I would like to ask you at this time that instead of me showing you market studies and references, I would ask that you show all of us what your talking about. Your always asking to be shown something for "proof?" if you will. I think its time you show us something concrete for a change.
Thsi way, when you post something you think is proof, it can then be torn apart which is a very easy thing to do for anyone. Dont ask me for proof of something that you only intend to pick apart letter by letter.

Best Regards,
Keys

He doesn't need to find proof, it's all around you... Do you know anyone that runs a dual cpu gaming rig? How many people do you know cooling their systems Liquid Nitrogen/sub zero cooling solutions? Watercooling is even still pretty rare, although gaining in popularity. I personally only know one person who has a dual cpu setup (dual 1800+) and his primary use for it is video encoding, but he does enjoy a good game as well. Most people run the system that gives them the best bang/buck.

The point of CaiNaM's post was that most people aren't interested in extravagant (read: expensive) gaming systems, and asking for you to prove otherwise was rhetorical. Just look around and see what people buy. How many times have we seen posts titled something like, "I have $800 to spend on a video card, what should I get?"? Not very often, but change $800 to $200....

 

[KenSimone]

No one has asked the important question...

If I were to put my case on wheels, and I were to add four PCI Express video cards w/ cooling similar to that of the 5800 ultra, would the case suck itself to the nearest wall (and would, say, a small child or a midget be able to ride it)?

 

[futuristicmonkey]

This has probably been said already but, I was just thinking about Alienware's ALX 2 (or whatever it is) and I remember seeing the cooling you would need for it and a 700-1Kilowatt PSU. From my perspective, that's insane.

Oh, and to get my fanboy comment in, remember when the GF4 Ti series was released and compared to the 8500, everone thought that the 4600 was the bomb? And then remember how ATi completely dethroned nVidia with the 9700 Pro after a little bit of silence from them? Well, I'm confident that ATi will produce a SLI-like type of deal that'll be better than nVidia's. Think about it, whenever nVidia does something (bad or good) Ati always seems to do something like it but better. For example, brilinear. nvidia's bilinear was garbage, but ATi came along and did it better. Better becasue it didnt affect quality as much as nVidia, and it was almost unnoticeable. I was thinking of another example, but I seem to have forgotten it. Damn, I wish I remembered.

Well, that's my inner fanboy's two cents. Feel free to correct any inconsistencies.

 

[VisableAssassin]

Originally posted by: futuristicmonkey
remember how ATi completely dethroned nVidia with the 9700 Pro after a little bit of silence from them?

If ATi would have never bought out Artx they would more than likely still be getting their asses handed to them....If you look at their past trend before they bought Artx you can see nothing they may made really held a candle to what was out. But once they bought out Artx boom they now had something that could compete...and in this case it competed very well...and with the 420 it still does compete very well.

 

[futuristicmonkey]

Okay, I've heard so much about how Artx made ATi what it is today by giving them the rights to the R300 core, or something like that. Anyway, I'm very confused, so could anyone provide a little bit of history and tell me what Artx was and when ATi boughti it etc. etc. ?

 

[Brickster]

Originally posted by: humanentity
ALIENWARE VIDEO ARRAY FAQ UPDATED

... if demand increases prices fall then, we can get on the wave to build our multi gpu rigs

Sorry dude, but as the curves go, if supply stays the same and demand rises, price goes UP! Lil' 101 for ya.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: humanentity
ALIENWARE VIDEO ARRAY FAQ UPDATED


Yeah! let double polygon count + pixel shaders 3.0 and all the stuff and get amazing games.
NVIDIA is even talking with game developers to convince them of taking this performance in count when designing games.

So the main question in 2 years will be, "how many video cards did you plugged in ur rig?"

Bahahaha!!!
The year is 2006. Lil John ask his mother:"Mom can I have 1000 bucks to buy 4 gpus for my system? Also I want you to know that I'm leaving the house.From now on I will be staying at the giant case of my pc".
Bahahaha!!!
Grow up son

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Its not that I ignored them. I just didn't think they were worth acknowledgment. And I would like to ask you at this time that instead of me showing you market studies and references, I would ask that you show all of us what your talking about. Your always asking to be shown something for "proof?" if you will. I think its time you show us something concrete for a change.
Thsi way, when you post something you think is proof, it can then be torn apart which is a very easy thing to do for anyone. Dont ask me for proof of something that you only intend to pick apart letter by letter.

Best Regards,
Keys

He doesn't need to find proof, it's all around you... Do you know anyone that runs a dual cpu gaming rig? How many people do you know cooling their systems Liquid Nitrogen/sub zero cooling solutions? Watercooling is even still pretty rare, although gaining in popularity. I personally only know one person who has a dual cpu setup (dual 1800+) and his primary use for it is video encoding, but he does enjoy a good game as well. Most people run the system that gives them the best bang/buck.

The point of CaiNaM's post was that most people aren't interested in extravagant (read: expensive) gaming systems, and asking for you to prove otherwise was rhetorical. Just look around and see what people buy. How many times have we seen posts titled something like, "I have $800 to spend on a video card, what should I get?"? Not very often, but change $800 to $200....

What, is all around me exactly?
Now you know 2 people with Dual CPU gaming rigs. I'm one of them. Dual 1.6 Athlon MP's. Not my most used rig but I have it if I choose to use it. And as for the 800 to 200 dollar thing you mentioned, like I said in another post, Its all relative to the person buying whether or not its affordable to them. I can afford something like the NV SLI setup, so, I will most likely pursue it when everything becomes available. I dont care that I cant get it now. Im not an impatient man. No problem for me to wait. There are younger folks here in the forum who are still in high school who dont have regular full time jobs and cant afford something like this. Those are the ones looking for sub 200 dollar cards. There is nothing wrong with this. Its pretty much a given that Rollo will pursue NV SLI as well as I understand he does well. Its all relative. And whether its a niche market or not remains to be seen. NV just might continue the SLI trend with every succeeding generation of there vid cards from this point on. Or this might be a one gen deal.

So. I don't know what people are getting so upset about concerning this SLI from NV. Those that can, and want to, will. Those that cant, won't. Very simple.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: apoppin
SLI was NOT the reason for 3dfx' lack of later success . . . SLI was popular

:roll:

to an insignificant segment of the market. the % of people running sli was well into a single digit slice of the market.

even 2-3% IS significant.

nVidia has a WINNER and you FANatiC guys are sick they they have to FOLLOW nVidia's LEAD (this time).

:roll:

 

[Zebo]

Since you can't patent an idea only implementation I expect there to be a third party product within the month (july) for every card.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

CaiNaM,


You make some valid points, but I'd council you to never say never BTW, if you use this definition for niche and the E.G. A special area of demand for a product or service: ?One niche that is approaching mass-market proportions is held by regional magazines? Then consider that while powerful gaming systems may be a niche market now, they can become a mass market later, things get interesting.

Once again Dell wouldn't be making a high-end, customizable, gaming machine if there wasn't a demand for them Now, given the projections on the gaming industry's growth over the next 5-10 years, niche now or not, it's going to be a mass market in time IMO.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
CaiNaM,


You make some valid points, but I'd council you to never say never BTW, if you use this definition for niche and the E.G. A special area of demand for a product or service: ?One niche that is approaching mass-market proportions is held by regional magazines? Then consider that while powerful gaming systems may be a niche market now, they can become a mass market later, thing get interesting.

Once again Dell wouldn't be making a high-end, customizable, gaming machine if there wasn't a demand for them Now, given the projections on the gaming industry's growth over the next 5-10 years, niche now or not, it's going to be a mass market in time IMO.

Even 1% would be significant.

And with this implimentation nVuidia now OWNS the 3d workstation "niche" These guys will be pleased to fork over SO LITTLE $$ for this new SLI that will save them so MUCH TIME.


This is a BIG deal . . . ati will have to follow with their own solution if they want to stay competitive.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
CaiNaM,


You make some valid points, but I'd council you to never say never BTW, if you use this definition for niche and the E.G. A special area of demand for a product or service: ?One niche that is approaching mass-market proportions is held by regional magazines? Then consider that while powerful gaming systems may be a niche market now, they can become a mass market later, thing get interesting.

Once again Dell wouldn't be making a high-end, customizable, gaming machine if there wasn't a demand for them Now, given the projections on the gaming industry's growth over the next 5-10 years, niche now or not, it's going to be a mass market in time IMO.

Even 1% would be significant.

And with this implimentation nVuidia now OWNS the 3d workstation "niche" These guys will be pleased to fork over SO LITTLE $$ for this new SLI that will save them so MUCH TIME.


This is a BIG deal . . . ati will have to follow with their own solution if they want to stay competitive.

It's like your in my head or somethin'! :laugh: get out!!!

 

[Acanthus]

very true apoppin, i didnt even think about how far ahead nvidia would be in the pro3d market.

Im hoping to see more 3rd party solutions and motherboards supporting this technology to drive down the price. Dual 6800GTs PCE-E would be great

 

[fsstrike]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: FluxCap
ATI doesn't have to bother, they can keep kicking ass and taking names.

Dude, you must have set the controls of your time machine wrong! It's 2004 where ATI released a chip with the same feature set as the one they put out in 2002!
This year, nVidia put out a more advanced card, with better drivers, with more features, and you can sli it to double the power.

All ATI has this year is cheaper price sometimes, less performance, and 3Dc, a new texture compression technique that no games use.

YES, nVidia DOES have more features. 6800 IS a more advanced card. But you cannot deny that ATI is slighty ahead in the performance game. Especially with AA and AF. Check anandtech.com benchmarks.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
CaiNaM,


You make some valid points, but I'd council you to never say never BTW, if you use this definition for niche and the E.G. A special area of demand for a product or service: ?One niche that is approaching mass-market proportions is held by regional magazines? Then consider that while powerful gaming systems may be a niche market now, they can become a mass market later, thing get interesting.

Once again Dell wouldn't be making a high-end, customizable, gaming machine if there wasn't a demand for them Now, given the projections on the gaming industry's growth over the next 5-10 years, niche now or not, it's going to be a mass market in time IMO.

Even 1% would be significant.

And with this implimentation nVuidia now OWNS the 3d workstation "niche" These guys will be pleased to fork over SO LITTLE $$ for this new SLI that will save them so MUCH TIME.


This is a BIG deal . . . ati will have to follow with their own solution if they want to stay competitive.

It's like your in my head or somethin'! :laugh: get out!!!

um, sure . . .

dinner's over . . . back to Thief III . . . ASTONISHING game . ... BTW, anyone Know HOW to Enable BOTH "Bloom" and "multisampling"; current options are one or the other (bloom looks fantastic).

:roll:

you cannot deny that ATI is slighty ahead in the performance game. Especially with AA and AF. Check anandtech.com benchmarks.

Check the LATEST benchs, yourself - the 6800u is alrady "caught up". The 6800 will pull ahead as nVidia optimizes their drivers. Unfortunately - for ati - the X800 drivers are already optimized. You'll see.

:roll:

 

[ZimZum]

I think its a cool novelty feature but its not very practical. There arent any games out that a 6800/x800 cant handle. By the time there are, the next gen cards will be out. Not to mention it takes up 4 PCIe slots.

 

[reever]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
very true apoppin, i didnt even think about how far ahead nvidia would be in the pro3d market.

They already have the market

Unfortunately - for ati - the X800 drivers are already optimized. You'll see.

And so are the 6800's, or else they wouldn't be running everything still in the nv3x codepaths, which it is at heart anyway

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: reever

Originally posted by: Acanthus
very true apoppin, i didnt even think about how far ahead nvidia would be in the pro3d market.

They already have the market

Unfortunately - for ati - the X800 drivers are already optimized. You'll see.

And so are the 6800's, or else they wouldn't be running everything still in the nv3x codepaths, which it is at heart anyway

Link?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Unfortunately - for ati - the X800 drivers are already optimized. You'll see.

And so are the 6800's, or else they wouldn't be running everything still in the nv3x codepaths, which it is at heart anyway

Link?

Havn't you read the latest reviews?

The x800s (r420) are all still based on R300; noting new or revolutionary (UNlike the 9700pro was) - rather (boringly) EVOlutionary . . . SAME unified drivers; just MINI-optimizations.

OTOH, NV40 is a BRAND-NEW core; NOT like the nv30 - REVOlutionarY. LOTS and lots of room for further optimizations over the next six months which will create a bigger and bigger performance GAP between the X800xt and the 6800U in FAVOR of the 6800.

Don't believe me? i could care less. You'll see!

:roll:

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Unfortunately - for ati - the X800 drivers are already optimized. You'll see.

And so are the 6800's, or else they wouldn't be running everything still in the nv3x codepaths, which it is at heart anyway

Link?

Havn't you read the latest reviews?

The x800s (r420) are all still based on R300; noting new or revolutionary (UNlike the 9700pro was) - rather (boringly) EVOlutionary . . . SAME unified drivers; just MINI-optimizations.

OTOH, NV40 is a BRAND-NEW core; NOT like the nv30 - REVOlutionarY. LOTS and lots of room for further optimizations over the next six months which will create a bigger and bigger performance GAP between the X800xt and the 6800U in FAVOR of the 6800.

Don't believe me? i could care less. You'll see!

:roll:

No, I meant a link to show that the 6800 still runs only NV3x codepaths. I want to see if what he shows me says that the 6800 only runs NN3x codepaths, or that it can.

I agree with apoppin here.

 

[reever]

OTOH, NV40 is a BRAND-NEW core; NOT like the nv30 - REVOlutionarY

No, it is an evolution of the NV3x core, weren't you there when everybody was talking about the FX being the first step in the process?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Unfortunately - for ati - the X800 drivers are already optimized. You'll see.

And so are the 6800's, or else they wouldn't be running everything still in the nv3x codepaths, which it is at heart anyway

Link?

Havn't you read the latest reviews?

The x800s (r420) are all still based on R300; noting new or revolutionary (UNlike the 9700pro was) - rather (boringly) EVOlutionary . . . SAME unified drivers; just MINI-optimizations.

OTOH, NV40 is a BRAND-NEW core; NOT like the nv30 - REVOlutionarY. LOTS and lots of room for further optimizations over the next six months which will create a bigger and bigger performance GAP between the X800xt and the 6800U in FAVOR of the 6800.

Don't believe me? i could care less. You'll see!

:roll:

No, I meant a link to show that the 6800 still runs only NV3x codepaths. I want to see if what he shows me says that the 6800 only runs NN3x codepaths, or that it can.

I agree with apoppin here.

Thanks . . .

NO one can provide a non-existant link.

He is talking out of his . . . hat.

:roll:

Perhaps there are a few instances where the NV40 is gonna "stumble" and revert to older codepaths. THAT is what the optimizations fix. By the time nv40 is fully functional (nv45 will also be here and) it will be a hungry beast . . . x800s are gonna be it's lunch (''till ati brings out its FINAL r300 refresh this fall before r500).

of course . . . the beat goes on . . .

i guess i'm gonna SKIP this gen as my 9800XT should work for awhile longer . . . sigh

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

No, it is an evolution of the NV3x core, weren't you there when everybody was talking about the FX being the first step in the process?

Nonsense. Now i am calling your bluff. PROVE it.

if you can

:roll:

 

[reever]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: reever

Originally posted by: Acanthus
very true apoppin, i didnt even think about how far ahead nvidia would be in the pro3d market.

They already have the market

Unfortunately - for ati - the X800 drivers are already optimized. You'll see.

And so are the 6800's, or else they wouldn't be running everything still in the nv3x codepaths, which it is at heart anyway

Link?

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30117&page=2&pp=15\

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30854&page=1

The NV40 is still defaulting and running on the NV3x path