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Question Alder Lake - Official Thread

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I would imagine that the future Celerons and Pentiums will be Gracemont updates of Jasper Lake...

something like:

N6105 4(4) - Pentium silver- 32EU
N5205 2(2) - celeron - 24 EU
N4605 2(2) - Celeron 16 EU

The G7400 from the Videocardz story seems plausible with die recovery on crippled 6C desktop dies. A die with a multi-defect or that has unexpected resistance somewhere could certainly be repurposed there. I don't know that I would want a 2(4) GoldenCove over a 4(4) Gracemont though, especially if the iGPU was sub 32EU for the Cove die.
 
Def looks like Alder Lake is a bust for DIY. Rocket Lake might be outselling it. I think it's the board prices and perhaps the perception you need DDR5.
 
jpiniero said:
Def looks like Alder Lake is a bust for DIY. Rocket Lake might be outselling it. I think it's the board prices and perhaps the perception you need DDR5.
Click to expand...

lol, a bust? It is faster than Zen 3 i. a variety of workloads, including gaming. It is a wash for others. If you exclude the 5950X, ADL-S is typically the best chip you can get right now. If you exclude the 5900X/12900k, you should skip Zen 3 altogether.
 
Kinda spells it all out:

www.tomshardware.com

Intel Core i5-12600K vs AMD Ryzen 5 5600X and 5800X Face Off: Ryzen Has Fallen

The gaming chip showdown
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com

But stock performance - i'd go with AMD. Intel is actively taking steps to ruin DDR4 "stock" performance, like running 3200 in GEAR2 mode by default.
Tuned - i'd go with Intel DDR4 platform. Price, availability and frankly performance is just not there with DDR5 platform currently.
 
JoeRambo said:
But stock performance - i'd go with AMD. Intel is actively taking steps to ruin DDR4 "stock" performance, like running 3200 in GEAR2 mode by default.
Click to expand...

Where are you seeing that? I saw Debauer comparing memory, and he had Gear 1 up to and including 3200 DDR4, and your link says:

"Stock DDR4-3200/2933 Gear 1 "
 
guidryp said:
Must be MB issue. I saw Debauer comparing memory, and he had Gear 1 up to and including 3200 DDR4.
Click to expand...

Out of all people to run non-stock der8auer ranks top5 easy.
The question is about loading BIOS defaults and running 3200 speed. What does Intel specs say about MC Gear to be selected?

EDIT: ScatterBench says official spec is Gear1 for 3200, so maybe it is MB BIOS thing:
 
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eek2121 said:
lol, a bust? It is faster than Zen 3 i. a variety of workloads, including gaming. It is a wash for others. If you exclude the 5950X, ADL-S is typically the best chip you can get right now. If you exclude the 5900X/12900k, you should skip Zen 3 altogether.
Click to expand...
Power usage is higher. Depending on where you read and which chip it can be a lot higher. So Zen 3 is still a good option IMO. For gaming, the 12600k does look like a good choice.
 
JoeRambo said:
Out of all people to run non-stock der8auer ranks top5 easy.
The question is about loading BIOS defaults and running 3200 speed. What does Intel specs say about MC Gear to be selected?

EDIT: ScatterBench says official spec is Gear1 for 3200, so maybe it is MB BIOS thing:
Click to expand...

No DDR4 sabotage in the spec sheet. Only place I could find listed Gear support for RAM:

SAGV Points - 009 - ID:655258 | 12th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors

edc.intel.com edc.intel.com

SAGVMaxBW/
lowest latency

DDR4 3200 G1
DDR5 4800 G2
Click to expand...

I haven't seen anyone run 3200 at Gear 2, so where were you getting this idea?
 
guidryp said:
I haven't seen anyone run 3200 at Gear 2, so where were you getting this idea?
Click to expand...

I was helping friend to setup the Gigabyte Z690 DDR4 system with 12700K and after loading BIOS defaults, memory was 2133 and after setting 3200 we found mem in GEAR2 mode ( from bad latency results).

Tho from reading on the web, people are having problems with Gigabyte BIOS overall. I am getting MSI + 12900k sometime this month so i will test it myself.
 
jpiniero said:
Def looks like Alder Lake is a bust for DIY. Rocket Lake might be outselling it. I think it's the board prices and perhaps the perception you need DDR5.
Click to expand...


It's probably new for you but Intel didn't release their non-K lineup as well as the cheaper boards yet. Non-K is what matters for OEMs: 10100, 10400, 10500, 11400, 11500, 11700 etc. is OEM business. It's still coming and pretty sure i5-12400 will be a popular OEM CPU. DDR5 is not a requirement, there is no need for DDR5.
 
mikk said:
It's probably new for you but Intel didn't release their non-K lineup as well as the cheaper boards yet. Non-K is what matters for OEMs: 10100, 10400, 10500, 11400, 11500, 11700 etc. is OEM business. It's still coming and pretty sure i5-12400 will be a popular OEM CPU. DDR5 is not a requirement, there is no need for DDR5.
Click to expand...

Did I say anything about OEM?

guidryp said:
A little early to write the obituary. It blows Rocket Lake out of the water.

Once B660 boards arrive, the more value conscious buyers will follow.
Click to expand...

Does look like there's a real preference for AMD.
 
guidryp said:
Based on what? Tea Leaves? It hasn't even been on sale for 10 days yet.
Click to expand...

Sales charts, etc. Plus given the reports that supply of Alder Lake was expected to not be much at launch, I fully expected all of Alder Lake K to be completely sold out almost immediately regardless of reviews. You can't even use the dGPU shortage as an excuse.
 
eek2121 said:
jpiniero said:
Def looks like Alder Lake is a bust for DIY. Rocket Lake might be outselling it. I think it's the board prices and perhaps the perception you need DDR5.
Click to expand...
lol, a bust? It is faster than Zen 3 i. a variety of workloads, including gaming. It is a wash for others. If you exclude the 5950X, ADL-S is typically the best chip you can get right now. If you exclude the 5900X/12900k, you should skip Zen 3 altogether.
Click to expand...
As of right now Alder Lake Builders Thread in this forum has a whopping 13 replies. Granted, this is a rather unscientific measure, but aside from tech youtubers I just don't see a lot of excitement for Alder lake. Yes, it can finally take on Zen3 depending on the workload, however it's expensive, motherboards are expensive, DDR5 is expensive, and it consumes 100W more power in productivity applications. That's not exactly a strong performance...
 
I think Alderlake can be summed up as "too little, too late". If it launched a year ago, I think we'd see a ton of fanfare for it considering it would have maintained Intel's gaming crown instead of handing it to AMD. However, considering it's out a year after Zen 3, to also suffer from higher peak power, higher platform costs, and require a new OS, it's just not enough of a performance jump to really move the needle, hence the lukewarm response.
 
fleshconsumed said:
and it consumes 100W more power in productivity applications. That's not exactly a strong performance...
Click to expand...
If you use gaming mobos that are made to push everything to the max and are too stupid to make any changes to the settings at all, and compare it to ryzen under strickt power limits.

It's downright criminal for reviewers to use stock settings (of the mobo) for intel but then use amd mandated limits for ryzen, either show both at full blast or both at intel/amd set limits.
 
jpiniero said:
Sales charts, etc. Plus given the reports that supply of Alder Lake was expected to not be much at launch, I fully expected all of Alder Lake K to be completely sold out almost immediately regardless of reviews. You can't even use the dGPU shortage as an excuse.
Click to expand...

So based on nothing at all. That's what I thought.
 
guidryp said:
So based on nothing at all. That's what I thought.
Click to expand...

Sales charts are nothing?

TheELF said:
It's downright criminal for reviewers to use stock settings (of the mobo) for intel but then use amd mandated limits for ryzen, either show both at full blast or both at intel/amd set limits.
Click to expand...

It's nearly impossible to build an x570 system with a 5950X or 5900X that uses more than 142W out-of-the-box. Just doesn't happen. I've heard of some Asus boards that might enable PBO by default, but I haven't seen that crop up in reviews where reviewers seriously tweak nothing in the UEFI.

Meanwhile reviewers that follow the exact same practices with Alder Lake-S routinely wind up benching systems that have effectively no limit on power consumption (except the limit of max boost clocks).

How can you blame reviewers for that?

Furthermore, if reviewers DID enforce lower power limits for the 12900k, then the 5950X would walk away with more wins in MT benchmarks.
 
Finally got my i5-12600K undervolted with stock speeds. Only overclocked is the IGPU but I hardly use that anyways. Here is a screenshot of temps, voltage, usage, powerundervoltdefault.png etc from CPU-z while encoding a blu ray rip of 2 hours. This shot is on the 40 minute encoding time frame.
 
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clemsyn said:
Finally got my i5-12600K undervolted with stock speeds. Only overclocked it the IGPU but I hardly use that anyways.
Click to expand...

This is the way! 🙂

I saw some speculation that decision to drop AVX512 came so late, that each ADL chip has P cores with burned in V/F curves ready for AVX512 stability. People are doing easy >50mV undervolts while keeping perfect stability everywhere.
Kinda shows how much Intel cares about desktop market if they don't mind their CPUs burning 50W extra.

Oh and obviuosly undervolts double dip into power, as now E cores are not being overfed with volts either, so win-win for team Intel.
 
DrMrLordX said:
That's pretty good! How did you pull off the undervolt?
Click to expand...

I did it in the bios. Changed Performance and Efficient Cores to Adaptive and offset of minus 0.15 (started with 0.05 and slowly worked it down with each and every core.) I just stopped at -0.15 just because it takes so much time testing stability 🙂. Temps are also very low with these settings. This CPU is very efficient.
 
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JoeRambo said:
This is the way! 🙂

I saw some speculation that decision to drop AVX512 came so late, that each ADL chip has P cores with burned in V/F curves ready for AVX512 stability. People are doing easy >50mV undervolts while keeping perfect stability everywhere.
Kinda shows how much Intel cares about desktop market if they don't mind their CPUs burning 50W extra.

Oh and obviuosly undervolts double dip into power, as now E cores are not being overfed with volts either, so win-win for team Intel.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I might try to OC the Efficient Cores without touching the voltage. Considering they are called "Efficient" by Intel, they must not eat a lot of power when OC'd 🙂
 
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