Question Alder Lake - Official Thread

[DrMrLordX]

Yeah LGA1700 bends.

 

[Markfw]

Yeah LGA1700 bends.

Yes, flimsy motherboards. $210 flimsy motherboards.

 

[Exist50]

The last time this came up, it was explicitly stated to only matter if you're lapping the heatsink.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah LGA1700 bends.

Like spoons? '

 

[DrMrLordX]

The last time this came up, it was explicitly stated to only matter if you're lapping the heatsink.

Wait what?

Like spoons? '

Only it doesn't require you to be telekinetic.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Like spoons? '

Alder Lake’s cooling problem straightened out by 5 degrees! - Simple ILM-Mod for Intel’s LGA-1700 socket | Practice | Page 2 | igor'sLAB

Intel's Alder Lake CPUs run hot, very hot. A few weeks ago, Igor had already identified the bending of the CPU and motherboard due to the LGA1700 socket as a potential cause for this. Today I'

www.igorslab.de

The best result can be achieved in our tests with a thickness of 1.0 mm with 70.88 °C and thus an improvement of 5.76 °C

At least, it can be solved easily, if you are willing to put a little effort into it.

 

[Exist50]

Wait what?

What do you mean? This addresses the same thing as the washer mod. Both have been tested to be, at best, a few degrees difference with a particular flat waterblock. More mainstream cooling like AIOs and air coolers will see negligible difference.

 

[DrMrLordX]

What do you mean?

I mean where are you getting the lapped heatsink thing? It's not a bowed IHS, it's a bent socket.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I mean where are you getting the lapped heatsink thing? It's not a bowed IHS, it's a bent socket.

The IHS is getting bent, leaving an airgap. It should be serious but only around a 5 degrees celsius improvement with washer mod? Doesn't make sense. The gap should reduce heat dissipation significantly but apparently, that's not happening.

 

[coercitiv]

I mean where are you getting the lapped heatsink thing? It's not a bowed IHS, it's a bent socket.

The bent heatsink is only a problem if you have a perfectly flat heatsink, which likely means a lapped heatsink. Most consumer heatsinks are already curved (convex) for exactly this reason, to maximize contact area with the slight curvature of the Intel heatsink. This is not something new, heatsink curving on Intel (and sometimes AMD) sockets has been around for a long while now. This includes DIFFERENT types of bending depending on socket (convex, concave, double wave), it all depends on the type of socket retention.

Here's one example from observations in a NH D15 review:

The Noctua NH-D15 heatsink has a machined nickel-plated copper baseplate with a surface roughness of approximately ~16 microinches. The base plate is machined perfectly flat in one axis and very slightly convex in the opposite.

This differs from the NH-D14 observation, which is good news for me considering I have the habbit of mounting it at a 90 degree angle:

The Noctua NH-D14 heatsink has a machined nickel-plated copper base with a surface roughness of approximately ~16 microinches, which is considered very good. The base plate is machined flat in both axis.

And here's what Noctua has to say about it:

Why is the cooler’s contact surface slightly convex?
As the Integrated Heat Spreaders (IHS) of today’s CPUs are slightly concave, the cooler’s contact surface has been deliberately designed to be slightly convex in order to ensure optimal contact. This way, more contact pressure will be applied at the centre of the IHS directly above the DIE, which results in better heat transfer and improved overall performance.

and another comment from Noctua support on lapping, dated 5 years ago:

Apart from that, lapping the CPU/ IHS outside the socket doesn't help, as it gets deformed once installed inside the socket. If you would like to have the best performance with a lapped heatsink, you would have to flatten the CPU when it is installed inside the socket.

 

[A///]

Only it doesn't require you to be telekinetic.

Someone tell Uri Geller he won't be the laughing stock of tv anymore!

 

[DrMrLordX]

The IHS is getting bent, leaving an airgap.

The entire IHS is bending? I doubt that! It's more likely that the socket retention mechanism is changing the lie of the HSF due to the bent socket.

Also again, who said anything about this being a problem exclusively for lapped heatsinks? I've not seen one report indicting lapped heatsinks.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The entire IHS is bending? I doubt that!

Intel Comments on Alder Lake CPU Socket Flexing - ExtremeTech

Intel has finally commented on the Alder Lake socket flexion situation. The news might not be what enthusiasts were hoping for.

www.extremetech.com

Our internal data show that the IHS on 12th Gen desktop processors may have slight deflection after installation in the socket.

Reading between the lines here, they are essentially saying “it might bend a little, sure, but that won’t cause it to run outside of its specification.”

It's bending, Oh God, it's bending!

 

[DrMrLordX]

It's bending, Oh God, it's bending!

If the IHS were actually bending, it would crack the solder underneath, and potentially damage the PCB or maybe even crack the die.

 

[igor_kavinski]

If the IHS were actually bending, it would crack the solder underneath, and potentially damage the PCB or maybe even crack the die.

Wouldn't there be more chance of the IHS adhesion getting compromised, essentially delidding the CPU?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Wouldn't there be more chance of the IHS adhesion getting compromised, essentially delidding the CPU?

The PCB would probably crack before that happened. I don't know if you've ever tried to chop through that stuff, but it's stout. Really if the IHS were to bend to any considerable degree, the first thing to go would be the solder.

 

[MadRat]

If you have thermal paste then it fill that concavity. You are talking at a microinches scale. I'm honestly surprised they aren't grooved to mate up even better, but some numbskull would figure out how to screw that up, too.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@MadRat

Getting a bit off-topic, but IBM did some research related to that which they posted . . . wow, 15 years ago:

https://www.engadget.com/2007-03-23-ibms-thermal-paste-cooling-innovations-detailed.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGpiYkDd4p_qXR7wFvJjhiKL8XLoM9IMO6NJ93G2aOle8e9RxGZs16sc1CDOMbKRZaLZhSvmCDfYFhOmUy_lVrlcEPsF6Fu_k1CZ46liRN0Ve79HjIenT8UjCTUezXaSZrktyAlplOX6mZsjX6qc6-PT0Z_abX46SNbmiJnRseHK

I think it was more intended from the point-of-view of a die<->IHS thermal interface, but it could also have been applied to an IHS<->HSF interface as well. I'm not sure whether all that research bore fruit.

 

[Doug S]

Intel Comments on Alder Lake CPU Socket Flexing - ExtremeTech

Intel has finally commented on the Alder Lake socket flexion situation. The news might not be what enthusiasts were hoping for.

www.extremetech.com

It's bending, Oh God, it's bending!

Typical Intel, totally ignoring the more important question: will it blend?

 

[jpiniero]

Intel "Alder Lake-HX" specifications leaked, up to 16-cores with overclocking and PCIe 5.0 support for enthusiast-class laptops - VideoCardz.com

Intel Alder Lake-HX enthusiast mobile platform with PCIe Gen5 and overclocking At Vision event on May 10th, Intel will introduce its latest series of processors codenamed Alder Lake-HX. The series are to become the first mobile lineup featuring 16 cores. Intel will put full desktop Alder Lake...

videocardz.com

Alder Lake HX's final specs leak. Max turbo power is 157 W. Launch is on Tuesday.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Alder Lake HX's final specs leak. Max turbo power is 157 W. Launch is on Tuesday.

It's 55W/157W across the entire lineup. That's interesting.

 

[jpiniero]

MSI unveils Titan GT77 and Vector GP76 gaming laptops with up to Core i9-12900HX, RTX 3080 Ti graphics and 250W power - VideoCardz.com

MSI shows off next-gen mobile gaming laptops The ultra-high-end laptop market is growing by the day. MSI is set to launch its new TITAN, VECTOR, RAIDER and CREATOR laptops very soon. In total there are four new designs all equipped with Intel 12th Gen Core Alder Lake-HX processors and up to...

videocardz.com

Here's an example of an 150 W 12900HX and 150 W 3080 Ti mobile. Sounds like you "only" get up to 250 W between the two though.

 

[JasonLD]

MSI unveils Titan GT77 and Vector GP76 gaming laptops with up to Core i9-12900HX, RTX 3080 Ti graphics and 250W power - VideoCardz.com

MSI shows off next-gen mobile gaming laptops The ultra-high-end laptop market is growing by the day. MSI is set to launch its new TITAN, VECTOR, RAIDER and CREATOR laptops very soon. In total there are four new designs all equipped with Intel 12th Gen Core Alder Lake-HX processors and up to...

videocardz.com

Here's an example of an 150 W 12900HX and 150 W 3080 Ti mobile. Sounds like you "only" get up to 250 W between the two though.

Not surprising since there isn’t a much situation where both the CPU and the GPU bring pushed to a max power at the same time.

 

[psolord]

Hello all.

I ordered a 12400f and I was wondering, do I have to install Windows 11 on it or will Windows 10 be fine, since there are no E cores to confuse the scheduler and such?

Thanks.

 

[Tech Junky]

@psolord

I would think it's more of a personal preference. However, W11 would save you the hassle later of upgrading. You might even see better performance out of your 3060 with W11 vs W10. I'm running a laptop with 12700H / 3060 / W11 and it's running smooth other than some self induced issues / gremlins I'm dealing with. There are some reg hacks you can do to make W11 more appealing like functions that W10 has natively.

If you are up for it then maybe install both on separate partitions and compare the performance and then you can go back and delete whichever doesn't work well to reclaim the space using a livecd / gparted.