Question Alder Lake - Official Thread

Page 108 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Jul 27, 2020
16,161
10,240
106
12900KS is supposed to be released today and yet I can't find it anywhere.

$780

EDIT: OOPS! Looks like the scalpers got to it.


Oh look everybody! You can save 9% if you act now!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: lightmanek

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
3,407
1,142
106
SMH @igor_kavinski

When I was going into the 12700K post launch I gave it a few dats to shake out in the retail side because initial releases tend to swing like the stock market The only thing I shouldn't had waited on was DDR5 because it went out of stock for months until the supply ramped up. Prices for 16GB went from $135 to $500+. DDR5 was more of an intrigue than a need anyway and after seeing results compared to DDR4 the premium didn't get you anything.

If people see the need to spend more $$$$$$ on a 12900x for a small percent gain in processing so be it. It just makes for more hurdles to deal with when building and running it. If you're going for performance what MOBO's should do is make a dual socket ADL and allow for 2 x CPU to be placed on them since you can get a couple of 12700K's for the price of a 12900x.

The only place I know of where you can do dual sockets is when you jump to Xeon or AMD equivalent.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,206
2,838
126

$780

EDIT: OOPS! Looks like the scalpers got to it.


Oh look everybody! You can save 9% if you act now!

Found Newegg selling the 12900KS on eBay.


The funny thing is I don't see it listed on the Newegg site.
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,674
3,796
136
SMH @igor_kavinski

When I was going into the 12700K post launch I gave it a few dats to shake out in the retail side because initial releases tend to swing like the stock market The only thing I shouldn't had waited on was DDR5 because it went out of stock for months until the supply ramped up. Prices for 16GB went from $135 to $500+. DDR5 was more of an intrigue than a need anyway and after seeing results compared to DDR4 the premium didn't get you anything.

If people see the need to spend more $$$$$$ on a 12900x for a small percent gain in processing so be it. It just makes for more hurdles to deal with when building and running it. If you're going for performance what MOBO's should do is make a dual socket ADL and allow for 2 x CPU to be placed on them since you can get a couple of 12700K's for the price of a 12900x.

The only place I know of where you can do dual sockets is when you jump to Xeon or AMD equivalent.

And to think people paid the premium for that DDR5 that will be like crap DDR4 2133 is today. Sure, you'll be able to reuse it, but you won't want too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: igor_kavinski

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,430
7,849
136
Found Newegg selling the 12900KS on eBay.


The funny thing is I don't see it listed on the Newegg site.
Yeah, Newegg does that, which is weird. I was searching for a component from the search bar 'Newegg xxrouter' and got a hit on their eBay site. Nothing on their main site _-_
 
Jul 27, 2020
16,161
10,240
106
If you're going for performance what MOBO's should do is make a dual socket ADL and allow for 2 x CPU to be placed on them since you can get a couple of 12700K's for the price of a 12900x.

The only place I know of where you can do dual sockets is when you jump to Xeon or AMD equivalent.
They should. They really should. If there are people willing to buy a single expensive CPU, you can bet many of them will love buying two.
 

epsilon84

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2010
1,142
927
136
Has it crept up on us how much faster ADL is with DDR5 in certain games? The jump over DDR4 is nuts on a few titles. Making me seriously consider switching to DDR5 for my 12900K once prices settle.


WDL.png

Rift.png
Hitman.png
CP2077.png


PS. Oh yeah... the 12900KS. Would you like like an extra frame or 2 over your 12900K? That'd be $300 thanks ;)

Seriously, you'll be literally 10x better off spending that money on DDR5 it seems, overpriced at it may be right now. I'm still in shock at how far in pulls ahead of DDR4... its basically a new tier of performance.
 
Last edited:

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,814
2,105
136
Has it crept up on us how much faster ADL is with DDR5 in certain games? The jump over DDR4 is nuts on a few titles. Making me seriously consider switching to DDR5 for my 12900K once prices settle.

Do note that it is high OC of DDR5 from 4800 to 6400 with probably at least some tuning, versus vanilla 3200 DDR4. DDR4 >3600 with low CL will perform the same if not better.

The time for DDR5 will come with 7200+ speeds on RPL, now that is where real action will be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psolord and Ranulf

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,674
3,796
136
Has it crept up on us how much faster ADL is with DDR5 in certain games? The jump over DDR4 is nuts on a few titles. Making me seriously consider switching to DDR5 for my 12900K once prices settle.


WDL.png

Rift.png
Hitman.png
CP2077.png


PS. Oh yeah... the 12900KS. Would you like like an extra frame or 2 over your 12900K? That'd be $300 thanks ;)

Seriously, you'll be literally 10x better off spending that money on DDR5 it seems, overpriced at it may be right now. I'm still in shock at how far in pulls ahead of DDR4... its basically a new tier of performance.

Resist the urge, you just bought into ADL with DDR4. Why go through rebuilding with a new mobo and having to find homes for your old hardware? Unless of course you enjoy that as part of the hobby. I'd say wait for a few speed grades higher before jumping on board DDR5 though. Also, those may be nice gains, but it's nowhere near the difference between livable framerates or not.
 

epsilon84

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2010
1,142
927
136
Do note that it is high OC of DDR5 from 4800 to 6400 with probably at least some tuning, versus vanilla 3200 DDR4. DDR4 >3600 with low CL will perform the same if not better.

The time for DDR5 will come with 7200+ speeds on RPL, now that is where real action will be.

The DDR4 3200 is CL14 G.Skill so not exactly budget stuff. Sure, 3600 would be faster but there is no way that performance gulf is gonna be bridged even with DDR4 4000 memory.

I agree with you that once DDR5 is a mature standard, the fun really begins. Should coincide with Zen 4/RPL/RTX 4000/RX 7000 launches too. Happy days ahead for suire.

Don't mind me, I'm just having slight buyers remorse with DDR4 right now, that's all! ;)
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,814
2,105
136
The DDR4 3200 is CL14 G.Skill so not exactly budget stuff. Sure, 3600 would be faster but there is no way that performance gulf is gonna be bridged even with DDR4 4000 memory.

There was testing when ADL was released, DDR4 4000'ish vs DDR5 6400 and it was very similar performance. I can't find that video right now, but many games were tested by some russian site.

EDIT: found it, was actually DDR5 5400CL34, so DDR5 6400CL32 would improve performance some more.

 

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
3,407
1,142
106
rebuilding
I did that 3X with my 8700K build for different reasons though. The initial build, the NAS / Raid upgrade, dual GPUs ' for mining experiment, and collapsing it all into a small footprint Node 804. Different MOBO's for different needs / slots / etc. Different cases to fit different arrangements / spacing between slots for GPU's.

The only disappointment with ADL / MOBO's at the time of release was 1 mATX option to reuse the 804 would have been more ideal than bumping to a full ATX again. The options have expanded but, there's a whole lot of issues between different OEM's when it comes to deploying the MOBO's. Power is all over the place, slot counts / gen aren't standardized, weird drive counts whether M2 or SATA. There's even 1 board I found that has a native M2 Gen5 slot which no other boards seem to have ventured into w/o adding a card/taking up a slot to enable the option later.

I'm hoping with the next gen coming things get straightened out a bit across the industry as a whole. this has been a clusterF from the get go.
 

epsilon84

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2010
1,142
927
136
There was testing when ADL was released, DDR4 4000'ish vs DDR5 6400 and it was very similar performance. I can't find that video right now, but many games were tested by some russian site.

EDIT: found it, was actually DDR5 5400CL34, so DDR5 6400CL32 would improve performance some more.


I just don't recall such big differences between DDR4 and DDR5 at launch, I always thought DDR5 was just a few percent ahead here and there, not worth paying twice the price for. I guess once you really give ADL the bandwidth to stretch its legs at 6000+ speeds its in a different league to DDR4.

In saying that, I should mention the obvious caveat, being those results were achieved with a 3090 Ti at 1080P, so the margins would shrink considerably at higher resolutions or with weaker GPUs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lightmanek
Jul 27, 2020
16,161
10,240
106
DDR5-6400 configuration consumed 11 watts less (in Blender). Faster AND relatively power efficient.

6 watts more in Cyberpunk, though. I feel sad now.

By the way, i9-12900KS coupled with 3090 Ti could break a 1000W PSU.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: lightmanek

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,206
2,838
126
Do note that it is high OC of DDR5 from 4800 to 6400 with probably at least some tuning, versus vanilla 3200 DDR4. DDR4 >3600 with low CL will perform the same if not better.

The time for DDR5 will come with 7200+ speeds on RPL, now that is where real action will be.
You would have been correct with that statement at launch. That's not true anymore. At launch most people were relagated to Micron IC DDR5 at 4800 to 5200 with CL40 timing.

No performance conscious person is buying Micron based DDR5 now that there is plenty of supply of Samsung and Hynix based modules.

My Samsung DDR5 does 6000 with 30-33-33 timings. Paid $550 for it. The same memory can be bought for just $400 now.

The only reason a person should get a DDR4 board with Alder Lake is if they already have DDR4 and don't want to buy new DDR5 modules. Anyone building an Alder Lake system from the ground up should seriously consider DDR5.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,330
5,281
136

"For that extra 5% performance, the total system power usage increased by almost 20%, hitting 426 watts which is pretty insane, especially given the 5950X peaked at just 221 watts. That means the 12900KS uses nearly twice as much power even though it's slower in this application. For those wondering how the 5950X uses less power than the 5800X and 5900X, it's due to binning, so the 16-core processor uses higher quality silicon"

"For the kind of money you're supposed to pay for the 12900KS, you could buy an entire CPU/motherboard/RAM combo based on the 12700KF and have a system that will perform extremely close to the Core i9 anyway. So who is it for? We can't say we recommend this one. We guess if you're an extreme overclocker, paying a massive premium for binned silicon might make sense, but for everyone else it's a huge waste of money."
 
Last edited:

epsilon84

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2010
1,142
927
136
DDR5-6400 configuration consumed 11 watts less. Faster AND relatively power efficient.

By the way, i9-12900KS coupled with 3090 Ti could break a 1000W PSU.

How so? 240W + 450W = 690W. Let's be generous and say 100W for memory and storage, thats still around 800W peak usage assuming *both* CPU and GPU can be pegged at 100% utilisation, which wouldn't ever be possible in an actual gaming scenario as no game can come close to maxing out a 12900K

Now, if you start overclocking the 12900KS and 3090 Ti, and decide it would be a good idea to run Furmark and an AVX2 stress test simultaneously... then yeah, the 1kW PSU may not be enough :p
 
Jul 27, 2020
16,161
10,240
106
How so? 240W + 450W = 690W. Let's be generous and say 100W for memory and storage, thats still around 800W peak usage assuming *both* CPU and GPU can be pegged at 100% utilisation, which wouldn't ever be possible in an actual gaming scenario as no game can come close to maxing out a 12900K.
426W + 450W = 876W. That could break a poor PSU design. But yes, in normal usage, that may not happen. Worst case scenario if someone is overclocking both CPU and GPU and playing something intensive like Cyberpunk and also streaming. At that point, something inane like an antivirus scan could prove to be the straw breaking the PSU.