senseamp
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
- 6,195
- 126
Indus
Diamond Member
- May 11, 2002
- 9,892
- 6,469
- 136
ch33zw1z
Lifer
- Nov 4, 2004
- 37,759
- 18,039
- 146
Ichinisan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 2002
- 28,298
- 1,234
- 136
Being forced to take responsibility for making a baby -- isn't that quite the opposite of being "free to knock-up anyone?"
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 33,425
- 7,485
- 136
Of course you can view it that way, because you discount the life that is killed. The rights of the child to live.
Are you logically consistent, can a child be killed on the DAY OF their birth, simply because they haven't left the womb yet? The day before? Why not after? They cannot survive without the sacrifice of labor, of time, of vitality TAKEN from the mother. Maybe taking care of a two month old is also done against her will. Let's be consistent here, maybe child support is against the parent's will.
Is a two month preemie not a person, should the medical staff just neglect them and let nature take its course? Try telling a mother that her child is just a clump of cells because they did not reach some magical date. Or you could be consistent and admit that late term abortion is most certainly murder of a child.
So you see, there is PLENTY of grey room between conception and birth.
There is no perfect solution, there's just whatever compromise we can derive in order to keep the peace and satisfy both sides that we avoided the worst possible outcome.
Ichinisan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 2002
- 28,298
- 1,234
- 136
Please explain the relevance to incels. They'll suddenly be able to get laid?? WTF?
MomentsofSanity
Lifer
- Jan 25, 2011
- 16,589
- 8,671
- 146
jackstar7
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2009
- 11,679
- 1,944
- 126
Concierge Abortion Doctors.
The rich and those in power will never have a problem getting an abortion anywhere.
Viper1j
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2018
- 4,169
- 3,645
- 136
Bottom line, it's on the Alabama women to fix this.
All those assholes have wives, and they should collectively cut them off. The Great American Pokeout.
Give it about a month, they'll get a clue.
And 8 year old girls selling blowjobs in the alleys. Abortion is illegal in Thailand too. I'm sure Republicants will be hoping to find that a rather happy result for them.
All those assholes have wives, and they should collectively cut them off. The Great American Pokeout.
Give it about a month, they'll get a clue.
And 8 year old girls selling blowjobs in the alleys. Abortion is illegal in Thailand too. I'm sure Republicants will be hoping to find that a rather happy result for them.
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
If you believe a fetus is a person, a woman’s control of her body is secondary as she is the host of another life.
The feels very much come into this discussion because there is no societal consensus on when life begins, and I am not even taking religion into account with that statement.
I can’t say with certainty that it happens at conception, nor do I agree with the idea that viability should be the line in the sand.
Viper1j
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2018
- 4,169
- 3,645
- 136
Well, Alabama has effectively decriminalized rape AND incest. Knock up your daughter's sister, they still have to have your kid.
That's something I'm sure Trump can relate to.
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Ichinisan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 2002
- 28,298
- 1,234
- 136
What kind of hyperbole is this? The previous penalty for rape / incest was allowing the mother to abort the baby? So there's no penalty for rape / incest when it doesn't result in pregnancy? You really believe rapists are all trying to make babies?
I disagree that there can't be a middle road, at least in terms of the philosophy regarding abortion. On the one hand, I'd say that anyone that feels that the fetus should be treated as equivalent to a person starting from the moment of conception is ludicrous. On the flip side, I'd say that anyone arguing that a fetus the day before birth is of any less moral value than a born baby is equally ludicrous. I would also contend that providing a woman 7 months time to get an abortion provides her with ample opportunity to make decisions regarding her own body. If there really were cases where women waited until the 9th month of pregnancy and then just randomly decided to have an abortion, I would actually oppose her right to do so. Just as I would oppose a woman's right to not feed a newborn child. A person's right to his or her own body does not extend to neglect of a dependent child. I would say that this is a valid argument towards the end of a pregnancy, however not at the beginning of the pregnancy.
However, it basically never happens that women just suddenly decide they don't want the baby for arbitrary reasons during the final trimester. If a woman gets an abortion because the pregnancy is unwanted, she does it as early as possible (no woman wants to go through the physical process of pregnancy). When women get late term abortions, its because either the mother's health or the health of the fetus has problems. And decisions about the appropriate course of action in such cases should be made by the woman and her doctor, not a lawyer in a courtroom.
Forcing the woman to have the baby in no way forces the father to be responsible for said baby.
Viper1j
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2018
- 4,169
- 3,645
- 136
AND in the case of the 11-year-old CHILD that was knocked up, by forcing her to have the baby, they just made an instant "anchor baby" for the father to stay in the country with a green card.
Direct from the School of Unintended Consequences!
ch33zw1z
Lifer
- Nov 4, 2004
- 37,759
- 18,039
- 146
jackstar7
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2009
- 11,679
- 1,944
- 126
Go small government!
So now we'll have cops interrogating women who miscarry.
Next we'll need government to take on the responsibility for women when they get pregnant, because they can't be trusted to carry the child to term. Pregnancy farms! Then we need to determine the financial value of a miscarriage for the woman when she is under government care, but something still goes wrong. She needs to be compensated for that government failure.
I only have middle fingers for anyone that's anti-choice. This is all horrific bullshit.
Ethics require us to value the rights of a conscious person over something incapable of consciousness.
So now we'll have cops interrogating women who miscarry.
Next we'll need government to take on the responsibility for women when they get pregnant, because they can't be trusted to carry the child to term. Pregnancy farms! Then we need to determine the financial value of a miscarriage for the woman when she is under government care, but something still goes wrong. She needs to be compensated for that government failure.
I only have middle fingers for anyone that's anti-choice. This is all horrific bullshit.
Ethics require us to value the rights of a conscious person over something incapable of consciousness.
jackstar7
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2009
- 11,679
- 1,944
- 126
ch33zw1z
Lifer
- Nov 4, 2004
- 37,759
- 18,039
- 146
It seems the implication is that incels can't get woman to procreate willingly, so rape is now an alternative to procreation with any woman you like, because she can't terminate the pregnancy.
It really didn't seem that hard to grasp.
UberNeuman
Lifer
- Nov 4, 1999
- 16,937
- 3,087
- 126
Incels have a hard time understanding english. And decency.
Ichinisan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 2002
- 28,298
- 1,234
- 136
Incels aren't choosing not to have sex ("involuntarily celibate"). Also it's a very strange jump to assume most rapists and incels even want to procreate. Most would just want sexual gratification.
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ch33zw1z
Lifer
- Nov 4, 2004
- 37,759
- 18,039
- 146
Most rape victims don't want to be raped or produce a child after 9 months either. But hey, shit happens.
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