Al Qaeda's paramilitary 'Shadow Army'

[dphantom]

The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

 

[Lemon law]

Our fantasy tatoo, is that we can control a population of 31+ million people with 72,000 troops. And then augment that control with bombing raids that alienate almost all of that 31 million population. And Obama's fantasy is that he can double the troops size and do any better.

As for the tribal regions of Pakistan, they have de facto autonomy from the more modern parts of Pakistan, and as they look West at Afghanistan, the last thing the inhabitants want is to see any Nato activity in their homeland after seeing what Nato has done for Afghanistan.

We need to start looking at this problem as a political, economic, and diplomatic problem, because looking at as a military problem is badly backfiring. And as a military problem, we need to think 600-700 K troops at a minimum, or any military strategy is not viable.

The more developed regions of Pakistan want nothing to do with either the Taliban or Al-Quida, because neither Al-Quida or the Taliban has anything to offer for their future, but in both Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan, there is almost no economic development and conditions are primitive. And until Nato can start to bring economic development along with their presence, anarchy favors the Taliban and Al-Quida.

 

[dphantom]

The primary problem facing Afghanistan militarily is the protected sanctuaries in Pakistan. All involved have to control the borders to be at all effective in building the infrastructure, bith political and economic that is necessary for Afghanistan to be a viable nation.

I agree it will take a lot more troops on the ground. Unlike you, I do not know how many, but based on the fact we do have to control a border unlike in Iraq where there were no protected sanctuaries, I suspect the total number of brigade equivalents will far exceed what is projected to be in AG later this year.

But like Iraq, until there are "boots on the ground" in sufficient number to provide security to the population, there cannot be any sustained economic initiatives. We learned that in Iraq and until the Bush surge, were doomed to failure. The surge is one lesson we can bring to AG as it laid the groundwork for all the rest that came including effective economic and political institutions and a rapid but ordrly expansion of Iraqi security forces.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

No shit?

It's been known for 6 years and proven by dozens of mass graves and it's why Obama was hell bent on pursuing this route.

OTOH, some of it is just bullshit, i can't really say more than that so i'll leave you to your own deductions.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

+1 I look forward to there armies "marching" on the US armies. Makes the job much easier when you can take most of them out with a few bombs :laugh:

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: dphantom
The primary problem facing Afghanistan militarily is the protected sanctuaries in Pakistan.

No shit? This has been known since forever and yet we got troops minimised to below 20k while OF got 200k+ at the same time.

We would need 150K regular and the rest to stay to even have a chance.

But now we got Gen Petreus who is a stupid twat with a political solution.

Bring in General Wesley Clarke, focus on the area at hand and let the airforce do what we do best, after that Petreus can continue to twiddle his thumbs while we fix it.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

They have already won and you are a living proof of it.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

My guess is that any conventional Taliban/Al-Quedah attack would be against Pakistan and not NATO as NATO would kick their but. Instead, they will continue to use their current tactics of hit and run, taking over a village or small city for a time and then retreat to their sanctuary. Sounds very similar to Vietnam actually.

It won't be until NATO pulls out that we see a conventional attack against AG from Pakistan and that will be the end of AG as we know it.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

+1 I look forward to there armies "marching" on the US armies. Makes the job much easier when you can take most of them out with a few bombs :laugh:

It's guerilla warfare, not conventinal armies running against eahcother you stupid twat.

I am sorry to have to say this but you are indeed a stupid twat, i can't say it any nicer than that and i did try.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

My guess is that any conventional Taliban/Al-Quedah attack would be against Pakistan and not NATO as NATO would kick their but. Instead, they will continue to use their current tactics of hit and run, taking over a village or small city for a time and then retreat to their sanctuary. Sounds very similar to Vietnam actually.

It won't be until NATO pulls out that we see a conventional attack against AG from Pakistan and that will be the end of AG as we know it.

Hmm, I wonder what a worst case scenario or likely scenario politically would be if NATO pretty much leveled the Pakistani Santuary with Pakistani authorization.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

+1 I look forward to there armies "marching" on the US armies. Makes the job much easier when you can take most of them out with a few bombs :laugh:

It's guerilla warfare, not conventinal armies running against eahcother you stupid twat.

I am sorry to have to say this but you are indeed a stupid twat, i can't say it any nicer than that and i did try.

Obviously you fucking idiot. Jesus, unless someone spells something out for you it flies right over your fucking head.

If they are training this way, than they are "massing" somewhere in these types of numbers. Which means they are obviously somewhere in large concentrations, which means you can throw a few bombs down and take them out in mass numbers. I didn't mean march on them ala Persians marching on Europe.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

My guess is that any conventional Taliban/Al-Quedah attack would be against Pakistan and not NATO as NATO would kick their but. Instead, they will continue to use their current tactics of hit and run, taking over a village or small city for a time and then retreat to their sanctuary. Sounds very similar to Vietnam actually.

It won't be until NATO pulls out that we see a conventional attack against AG from Pakistan and that will be the end of AG as we know it.

Yeah, the ISI attacking the population while the ISI curbing the violence has been the status quo since foreign troops were introduced.

I will state this as clearly as i possibly can, there are no friendly ISI troops in the area, there are daily bombings and target locations by troops in the area.

All in all, you are incorrect about every assessment and i don't say that to be rude, it's just the way it is.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

My guess is that any conventional Taliban/Al-Quedah attack would be against Pakistan and not NATO as NATO would kick their but. Instead, they will continue to use their current tactics of hit and run, taking over a village or small city for a time and then retreat to their sanctuary. Sounds very similar to Vietnam actually.

It won't be until NATO pulls out that we see a conventional attack against AG from Pakistan and that will be the end of AG as we know it.

Yeah, the ISI attacking the population while the ISI curbing the violence has been the status quo since foreign troops were introduced.

I will state this as clearly as i possibly can, there are no friendly ISI troops in the area, there are daily bombings and target locations by troops in the area.

All in all, you are incorrect about every assessment and i don't say that to be rude, it's just the way it is.

John,
While I appreciate your service as I am a retired USAF officer, I would ask you to remove yourself from this discussion as you seem to be able to only respond by personal attack. Additionally, you are off topic as I mentioned nothing about the ISI in either my original and subsequent posts nor in the article I linked to.

If you can stay on topic and hold a civil discourse, then by all means join in. But I do not stand for your type of personal attack.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

My guess is that any conventional Taliban/Al-Quedah attack would be against Pakistan and not NATO as NATO would kick their but. Instead, they will continue to use their current tactics of hit and run, taking over a village or small city for a time and then retreat to their sanctuary. Sounds very similar to Vietnam actually.

It won't be until NATO pulls out that we see a conventional attack against AG from Pakistan and that will be the end of AG as we know it.

Yeah, the ISI attacking the population while the ISI curbing the violence has been the status quo since foreign troops were introduced.

I will state this as clearly as i possibly can, there are no friendly ISI troops in the area, there are daily bombings and target locations by troops in the area.

All in all, you are incorrect about every assessment and i don't say that to be rude, it's just the way it is.

John,
While I appreciate your service as I am a retired USAF officer, I would ask you to remove yourself from this discussion as you seem to be able to only respond by personal attack. Additionally, you are off topic as I mentioned nothing about the ISI in either my original and subsequent posts nor in the article I linked to.

If you can stay on topic and hold a civil discourse, then by all means join in. But I do not stand for your type of personal attack.

I think it's easier just to say you're a stupid twat.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

My guess is that any conventional Taliban/Al-Quedah attack would be against Pakistan and not NATO as NATO would kick their but. Instead, they will continue to use their current tactics of hit and run, taking over a village or small city for a time and then retreat to their sanctuary. Sounds very similar to Vietnam actually.

It won't be until NATO pulls out that we see a conventional attack against AG from Pakistan and that will be the end of AG as we know it.

Yeah, the ISI attacking the population while the ISI curbing the violence has been the status quo since foreign troops were introduced.

I will state this as clearly as i possibly can, there are no friendly ISI troops in the area, there are daily bombings and target locations by troops in the area.

All in all, you are incorrect about every assessment and i don't say that to be rude, it's just the way it is.

John,
While I appreciate your service as I am a retired USAF officer, I would ask you to remove yourself from this discussion as you seem to be able to only respond by personal attack. Additionally, you are off topic as I mentioned nothing about the ISI in either my original and subsequent posts nor in the article I linked to.

If you can stay on topic and hold a civil discourse, then by all means join in. But I do not stand for your type of personal attack.

Could you please bold the section where i made a personal attack.

I do not want to be disrespectful towards you but i would like to know your rank and time of service, it's not so i can investigate your or anything, it would be futile with that information, i am just curious.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

+1 I look forward to there armies "marching" on the US armies. Makes the job much easier when you can take most of them out with a few bombs :laugh:

It's guerilla warfare, not conventinal armies running against eahcother you stupid twat.

I am sorry to have to say this but you are indeed a stupid twat, i can't say it any nicer than that and i did try.

Obviously you fucking idiot. Jesus, unless someone spells something out for you it flies right over your fucking head.

If they are training this way, than they are "massing" somewhere in these types of numbers. Which means they are obviously somewhere in large concentrations, which means you can throw a few bombs down and take them out in mass numbers. I didn't mean march on them ala Persians marching on Europe.

I'm sorry about that, perhaps i took too much for granted when i assumed that people realised that what they were saying were outright falsifications of a situation and that they actually meant something completely fucking different than what was said.

But i should have known better than to read what you say, i should have fucking imagined what you meant instad, right?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

+1 I look forward to there armies "marching" on the US armies. Makes the job much easier when you can take most of them out with a few bombs :laugh:

It's guerilla warfare, not conventinal armies running against eahcother you stupid twat.

I am sorry to have to say this but you are indeed a stupid twat, i can't say it any nicer than that and i did try.

Obviously you fucking idiot. Jesus, unless someone spells something out for you it flies right over your fucking head.

If they are training this way, than they are "massing" somewhere in these types of numbers. Which means they are obviously somewhere in large concentrations, which means you can throw a few bombs down and take them out in mass numbers. I didn't mean march on them ala Persians marching on Europe.

I'm sorry about that, perhaps i took too much for granted when i assumed that people realised that what they were saying were outright falsifications of a situation and that they actually meant something completely fucking different than what was said.

But i should have known better than to read what you say, i should have fucking imagined what you meant instad, right?

Yep, you got it now :beer:

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

+1 I look forward to there armies "marching" on the US armies. Makes the job much easier when you can take most of them out with a few bombs :laugh:

It's guerilla warfare, not conventinal armies running against eahcother you stupid twat.

I am sorry to have to say this but you are indeed a stupid twat, i can't say it any nicer than that and i did try.

Obviously you fucking idiot. Jesus, unless someone spells something out for you it flies right over your fucking head.

If they are training this way, than they are "massing" somewhere in these types of numbers. Which means they are obviously somewhere in large concentrations, which means you can throw a few bombs down and take them out in mass numbers. I didn't mean march on them ala Persians marching on Europe.

I'm sorry about that, perhaps i took too much for granted when i assumed that people realised that what they were saying were outright falsifications of a situation and that they actually meant something completely fucking different than what was said.

But i should have known better than to read what you say, i should have fucking imagined what you meant instad, right?

Yep, you got it now :beer:

A sense of humour never hurt anyone, i'll clonk your glass :beer:

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

My guess is that any conventional Taliban/Al-Quedah attack would be against Pakistan and not NATO as NATO would kick their but. Instead, they will continue to use their current tactics of hit and run, taking over a village or small city for a time and then retreat to their sanctuary. Sounds very similar to Vietnam actually.

It won't be until NATO pulls out that we see a conventional attack against AG from Pakistan and that will be the end of AG as we know it.

Yeah, the ISI attacking the population while the ISI curbing the violence has been the status quo since foreign troops were introduced.

I will state this as clearly as i possibly can, there are no friendly ISI troops in the area, there are daily bombings and target locations by troops in the area.

All in all, you are incorrect about every assessment and i don't say that to be rude, it's just the way it is.

John,
While I appreciate your service as I am a retired USAF officer, I would ask you to remove yourself from this discussion as you seem to be able to only respond by personal attack. Additionally, you are off topic as I mentioned nothing about the ISI in either my original and subsequent posts nor in the article I linked to.

If you can stay on topic and hold a civil discourse, then by all means join in. But I do not stand for your type of personal attack.

Could you please bold the section where i made a personal attack.

I do not want to be disrespectful towards you but i would like to know your rank and time of service, it's not so i can investigate your or anything, it would be futile with that information, i am just curious.

The "stupid twat" comment earlier is one.

USAF Major, (ret) 1987-2005 enlisted 1982-1987 (E-5)

 

[yllus]

lol, division sized Al Qaeda units? That's a complete contradiction in terms. Article = utter trash.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: yllus
lol, division sized Al Qaeda units? That's a complete contradiction in terms. Article = utter trash.

No it is quite real. Division size does not mean a Western division of 15k troops with 5k vehicles. What it does mean in this case is battalion (~500) or brigade (`1500-2500) size units with some operational structure. Even in the case of battalion size units, we rarely hear of that number in a fight.

So, no we do not see manuevering divisions or brigades. What we do see is an emerging operational entity that can coordinate larger size attacks or simultaneous smaller ones.

And we are focused not only on Al-Quedah, but if you had read the article, you would see that Taliban as well as other Arabs are integrating into this fighting force.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: dphantom
The link below is a frightening wake up call for Westerners concerned with the developments in Pakistan concerning Al-Quedah and the Taliban.

Link

Reliable sources now indicate Al-Quedah and the Taliban are conducting operations in battalion, brigade and even division size units analogous to conventional military units. They appear to be well equipped, well led and very well trained.

The ability of the Pakistani conventional forces (not Frontier Corp) appear to be highly suspect. If a regular battalion backed by tanks and air support as indicated in the link above cannot stand up to a Taliban force, then NWFP and perhaps other parts of Pakistan are or soon will be lost.

I suspect that is why the US and other NATO nations in Afghanistan are working very hard to secure alternate supply lines into AG as the ones thru Pakistan are soon to be lost.

This bodes very poorly for Afghanistan itself. By operating from protected bases, the Taliban/Al-Quedah can launch attacks and retreat to their sanctuaries whenever they want. It means a very long war with much higher troop committments than we see today or are even projected for later this year. This type of war will last a decade or more. Are we prepared for the casualties and monetary cost of such a war?

Wow. If Al-Qaida is going to start waging conventional war against us, they've already lost.

They're only advantage lay in unconventional tactics and trying to wear American patience thin. In a toe-to-toe conflict, they'd get their asses kicked. That's one lesson Westmoreland learned.

My guess is that any conventional Taliban/Al-Quedah attack would be against Pakistan and not NATO as NATO would kick their but. Instead, they will continue to use their current tactics of hit and run, taking over a village or small city for a time and then retreat to their sanctuary. Sounds very similar to Vietnam actually.

It won't be until NATO pulls out that we see a conventional attack against AG from Pakistan and that will be the end of AG as we know it.

Yeah, the ISI attacking the population while the ISI curbing the violence has been the status quo since foreign troops were introduced.

I will state this as clearly as i possibly can, there are no friendly ISI troops in the area, there are daily bombings and target locations by troops in the area.

All in all, you are incorrect about every assessment and i don't say that to be rude, it's just the way it is.

John,
While I appreciate your service as I am a retired USAF officer, I would ask you to remove yourself from this discussion as you seem to be able to only respond by personal attack. Additionally, you are off topic as I mentioned nothing about the ISI in either my original and subsequent posts nor in the article I linked to.

If you can stay on topic and hold a civil discourse, then by all means join in. But I do not stand for your type of personal attack.

Could you please bold the section where i made a personal attack.

I do not want to be disrespectful towards you but i would like to know your rank and time of service, it's not so i can investigate your or anything, it would be futile with that information, i am just curious.

The "stupid twat" comment earlier is one.

USAF Major, (ret) 1987-2005 enlisted 1982-1987 (E-5)

Yeah, me and Richard cleared that up though.

You outrank me sir, i am a Captain of TFB, currently in Afghnistan, for others not in the know the TFB stands for Task Force Black, an SAS unit.

Last turn, probably but i have said that every time.

I work in this area that is mentioned and i can tell you that there is nothing that is said in that article that is true i think what is observed is the training of the ISI (which i trust about as much as Kramelil) and i can assure you that if there was such a camp we would mark it and the USAF would handle it.

Thank you for your courtesy sir.

Cpt Jake

 

[StageLeft]

"longwarjournal.org" and "reliable sources".

Error 404, credibility not found.

I'm really feeling the love from JoS in this thread!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Times up i got to get moving, but do PM me your response too dphantom, it would be nice to have not one but two USAF aquaintances efen if it's only on a text forum.

/salute