Al Gore... I want my money back!

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spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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My point is that what matters most is life here on Earth

Matters to who? Humans??? Species have come and gone (both naturally and due to man-made causes) since the earth was created...

Who else on the planet or in the universe really cares what us humans think (or do)?
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
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Matters to who? Humans??? Species have come and gone (both naturally and due to man-made causes) since the earth was created...

Who else on the planet or in the universe really cares what us humans think (or do)?

I didn't ask that question, so you'll have to answer it for yourself. I'd imagine if there were other species on Earth as evolved as ourselves they might care quite a bit about what the dominant species is doing.

Luckily polar bears aren't smart enough to know better or they might be pissed.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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I find this post very strange. On the one hand you clearly hold in poor regard those who believe in some afterlife/heaven kind of concept and presumably the effort they do to try and secure a position in it and yet seem willing to put in an effort to prevent what also may be fantasy. In any case, the 20 year time frame is certainly fantasy. Certainly you can't believe that we're looking at near term end of humanity and yet haven't quite gone far enough that we cannot reverse it with some reasonable efforts. If we're that close to far gone there is nothing we can do. Or at least will do as there will never be agreement on what to do.

In non spiritual matters everything is ideally a measured risk. Your argument could equally be used to fund a worldwide $10Trillion/year effort in creating an anti-meteroid shield for the earth in case it's hit by some stray rocks.

What we have here, as always, is climate scientists modifying their predictions. Again, as they always have and always will do, for despite unbelievable arrogance they still don't have a clue how the world actually works, what is causing climate issues on a huge scale, what the climate will be like, and how it's going to affect us. They get an A+ for consistency, though, always dooming and glooming. You never hear about the positives of global warming. Ever, like it's an evil cancer and the world is better if colder.

I agree with RPS, this is an excellent post. Climate models are great for predicting things that have already happened, but for the future we've now seen that results not in line with predictions have been dismissed as merely local weather conditions, unimportant to understand even if they last two or three decades. CAGW theory has now been removed completely from the level of science that can be verified or even correlated within any practical time span, so for all practical purposes climate theory is interchangeable with religion - it must be taken on faith, else it does not work.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
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I agree with RPS, this is an excellent post. Climate models are great for predicting things that have already happened, but for the future we've now seen that results not in line with predictions have been dismissed as merely local weather conditions, unimportant to understand even if they last two or three decades. CAGW theory has now been removed completely from the level of science that can be verified or even correlated within any practical time span, so for all practical purposes climate theory is interchangeable with religion - it must be taken on faith, else it does not work.

As in every other scientific field, models are changed and updated constantly based on the latest available data and tools. The consensus hasn't moved an inch. That is the strength of science vs religion and a key difference.
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,997
1,745
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I didn't ask that question, so you'll have to answer it for yourself. I'd imagine if there were other species on Earth as evolved as ourselves they might care quite a bit about what the dominant species is doing.

Luckily polar bears aren't smart enough to know better or they might be pissed.

You specifically stated that life on the earth is the most important thing.

I am asking, "Important to who?"

Outside of the human race, what or who else on the planet (or anywhere else for that matter) would care if there were human beings on the planet or not?

Polar bears will do whatever they need to do survive. If not they, will perish. Simple concept.

My point is that species will go come and go on this planet. You should accept that. In the big picture, humans are no more significant than any other species on the planet, contrary to your statement that we are the dominant species here. The planet will live on even if the last person on earth dies...
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
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As in every other scientific field, models are changed and updated constantly based on the latest available data and tools. The consensus hasn't moved an inch. That is the strength of science vs religion and a key difference.

And manipulated when necessary, right?

Wasn't 1998 as "warmest year on record" used as "proof" of global warming?

Well if 2010 is super cold...then its just weather...right?
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
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And manipulated when necessary, right?

That's a curious comment, this entire thread is about media outlets purposefully distorting someone's research to draw 100% false conclusions, now who is manipulating who? The OP was completely debunked by the primary source of the research.

As has been outlined earlier in the thread, climate and weather are not the same thing.

500 years ago, you guys would be arguing against heliocentrism based on what you feel you know or what you see outside.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
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That's a curious comment, this entire thread is about media outlets purposefully distorting someone's research to draw 100% false conclusions, now who is manipulating who? The OP was completely debunked by the primary source of the research.

As has been outlined earlier in the thread, climate and weather are not the same thing.

500 years ago, you guys would be arguing against heliocentrism based on what you feel you know or what you see outside.

But climate is a accumulation of weather over time.

The problem is we mortals think of time as a hundred or thousand years as being a long time span.

The earth isn't that way...plus all of a sudden it can send an earthquake or volcano and gums up the whole thing.

Then what happens if an asteroid hits and wipes out most of the earth...again...resets everything.

I think todays so called "scientists" have come to rely to heavily on computers for their answers.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
But climate is a accumulation of weather over time.

The problem is we mortals think of time as a hundred or thousand years as being a long time span.

The earth isn't that way...plus all of a sudden it can send an earthquake or volcano and gums up the whole thing.

Then what happens if an asteroid hits and wipes out most of the earth...again...resets everything.

I think todays so called "scientists" have come to rely to heavily on computers for their answers.
Bingo. Climate is merely weather integrated over time.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
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But climate is a accumulation of weather over time.

The problem is we mortals think of time as a hundred or thousand years as being a long time span.

The earth isn't that way...plus all of a sudden it can send an earthquake or volcano and gums up the whole thing.

Then what happens if an asteroid hits and wipes out most of the earth...again...resets everything.

I think todays so called "scientists" have come to rely to heavily on computers for their answers.

What are you even arguing at this point? Climate scientists are concerned about the ability of the Earth to support human life on a large scale in the next quarter to half century. To the extent that conditions on the earth a hundred thousand or a million years ago can provide clues, we're interested. We are also interested in volcanoes, earthquakes, and asteroids. I'm not sure if you're aware, but scientists study those too.

Go ahead and keep flinging shit against the wall. None of it will stick.
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
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I didn't ask that question, so you'll have to answer it for yourself. I'd imagine if there were other species on Earth as evolved as ourselves they might care quite a bit about what the dominant species is doing.

Luckily polar bears aren't smart enough to know better or they might be pissed.

And shrimp aren't evolved otherwise they'll be pissed for being hunted for food. What's your point? Not to mention you're assuming AGW really is happening, which is far from "settled."
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
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And shrimp aren't evolved otherwise they'll be pissed for being hunted for food. What's your point? Not to mention you're assuming AGW really is happening, which is far from "settled."

Neither, then, is evolution itself. Go get yourself a Nobel, Einstein, because clearly you know more about AGW than the scientific community, which seems to consider that issue pretty damn "settled".

This includes, btw, the author of the very research this thread is about.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,534
607
126
What are you even arguing at this point? Climate scientists are concerned about the ability of the Earth to support human life on a large scale in the next quarter to half century. To the extent that conditions on the earth a hundred thousand or a million years ago can provide clues, we're interested. We are also interested in volcanoes, earthquakes, and asteroids. I'm not sure if you're aware, but scientists study those too.

Go ahead and keep flinging shit against the wall. None of it will stick.

So 50 years of weather is climate now?

on what scale?

so since 1960 we have gone through serious "climate change" is that right?

oh really?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Neither, then, is evolution itself. Go get yourself a Nobel, Einstein, because clearly you know more about AGW than the scientific community, which seems to consider that issue pretty damn "settled".

This includes, btw, the author of the very research this thread is about.

Bah. Unless he repeats the sacred phrases on a regular basis, a scientist researching climate very rapidly becomes a scientist who would like to research climate if he could only get a grant to fund it.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
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Bah. Unless he repeats the sacred phrases on a regular basis, a scientist researching climate very rapidly becomes a scientist who would like to research climate if he could only get a grant to fund it.

So why start this thread? Oh yeah, the OP thought the research aligned with his thinking. So he posted it. Now that we know it doesn't, it's tainted.

Yeah, I'm sure grant money is real hard to get from Exxon or Chevron if you want to hypothesize that global warning isn't happening or isn't a concern. Do you even listen to yourself?
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
So 50 years of weather is climate now?

on what scale?

so since 1960 we have gone through serious "climate change" is that right?

oh really?

Wow, you don't even understand the issue, do you? Pathetic. Why don't you do some reading first (and I'm not talking about WSJ op-ed pieces) and come back to this thread?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
So why start this thread? Oh yeah, the OP thought the research aligned with his thinking. So he posted it. Now that we know it doesn't, it's tainted.

Yeah, I'm sure grant money is real hard to get from Exxon or Chevron if you want to hypothesize that global warning isn't happening or isn't a concern. Do you even listen to yourself?
A climatology scientist who works for Exxon or Chevron, being apostate, can only work for Exxon or Chevron from then on, unless he makes some great act of contrition. You know, falsifying data or agreeing to reprogram the climate models with tables of results rather than calculating results, maybe making a pilgrimage to Algore and appearing in a movie to be shown in schools. A fatwa shall be issued to kill his career and prevent his appearing in print where his blasphemous words might inflame decent folk.

Also, the OP started this thread because the research did align with his thinking. The researcher claims otherwise, I think for reasons I explained.
 
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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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Lets see if you have a clue. How much rainforest is being lost? You can express your answer by day, month, year; you can say for the last yea, the last 10, or another time frame. You have no idea do you?

Oh come on some of the people who started the amazon rainforest scare don't even believe it anymore. I think I remember reading we've deforested like at most 15% of the Amazon and half of that is already in regrowth, so you're talking less than 8% is gone after how many years?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,874
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A climatology scientist who works for Exxon or Chevron, being apostate, can only work for Exxon or Chevron from then on, unless he makes some great act of contrition. You know, falsifying data or agreeing to reprogram the climate models with tables of results rather than calculating results, maybe making a pilgrimage to Algore and appearing in a movie to be shown in schools. A fatwa shall be issued to kill his career and prevent his appearing in print where his blasphemous words might inflame decent folk.

Also, the OP started this thread because the research did align with his thinking. The researcher claims otherwise, I think for reasons I explained.

Fail
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
Neither, then, is evolution itself. Go get yourself a Nobel, Einstein, because clearly you know more about AGW than the scientific community, which seems to consider that issue pretty damn "settled".

This includes, btw, the author of the very research this thread is about.

You mean the same scientific community who threw out raw data and adjusted their results with a "fudge factor?" Sure, pass the Nobel this way, genius :rolleyes:
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
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You mean CRU which is payed with public funds but has continually denied legitimate FOIA requests over the course of a decade and still refuses to release their code? You mean Jones at CRU who urged other scientists to destroy their data? You mean the CRU that NOAA and NASA depend on to calibrate ground temperatures for their satellites? OH yeah, that's good science. Science we can all believe in.