Airbus A380

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iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
Yeah actually freaking read. The jets described in my posts were all compared to their western counterparts and they easily match the safety records of the compared western planes

Current Russian airlines have a modern airfleet. The only reason Russian accident rates are so high is because many tiny airlines are using extremely outdated soviet airplanes in bad conditions. The top 10 airlines in Russia have the same accident rates as the top 10 airlines in the USA.

Russian planes are irrelevant in the first world. You cannot argue that fact. No one who does not need to fly a Russian plane will fly one. They fly them because they cannot afford any other manufacturers. Look at Aeroflot's fleet. What are they running now? 25% Russian planes?

The Superjet 100 is a perfect example of Russian planes and the outlook the world has on them. Nobody wants it. It's cheaper to run but it's still a Sukhoi and that has a bad connotation.
 
Oct 25, 2006
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Russian planes are irrelevant in the first world. You cannot argue that fact. No one who does not need to fly a Russian plane will fly one. They fly them because they cannot afford any other manufacturers. Look at Aeroflot's fleet. What are they running now? 25% Russian planes?

The Superjet 100 is a perfect example of Russian planes and the outlook the world has on them. Nobody wants it. It's cheaper to run but it's still a Sukhoi and that has a bad connotation.

Well yes, but its retarded to claim that you won't fly with a particular major airline because of some accident you heard of. Almost every single major airline around the world has similar accident rates whether you're flyingon a russian or USA airline on USA/Russian/European designed aircraft.

The point behind my posts is that, people hear about these crashes, explain them by saying shit like the Russians are drunk idiots, and then when they hear the statistics/comparisons behind them, they stick their hands in their ears and ignore evidence.
 
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iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
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Well yes, but its retarded to claim that you won't fly with a particular major airline because of some accident you heard of. Almost every single major airline around the world has similar accident rates whether you're flyingon a russian or USA airline on USA/Russian/European designed aircraft.

The point behind my posts is that, people hear about these crashes, explain them by saying the Russians are drunk idiots, and then when they hear the statistics/comparisons behind them, they stick their hands in their ears and ignore evidence.

Ok I agree with you there. Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, whoever... They have all had issues. Lest we forget the 747 cargo door issues like United 811.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Hm, I need to go on a longer trip so I can fly on a jet that's bigger than a 737. :( I always get stuck on aircraft that were built out of arcane technology! My last trip involved a prop plane; I didn't think that they even made those anymore!

EDIT:

Although, I did notice that the prop plane didn't give me inner-ear pain like the ERJ-145 usually does. I'd imagine that it's about the equivalent of someone jamming a spike into my ear canal and residual pain usually persists for around a day after the flight itself, so it's nice to get it during the flight.

EDIT 2:

The prop plane in question was the Bombardier Q200.
 
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foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,883
63
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Hm, I need to go on a longer trip so I can fly on a jet that's bigger than a 737. :( I always get stuck on aircraft that were built out of arcane technology! My last trip involved a prop plane; I didn't think that they even made those anymore!

EDIT:

Although, I did notice that the prop plane didn't give me inner-ear pain like the ERJ-145 usually does. I'd imagine that it's about the equivalent of someone jamming a spike into my ear canal and residual pain usually persists for around a day after the flight itself, so it's nice to get it during the flight.

EDIT 2:

The prop plane in question was the Bombardier Q200.

I started to hate the fact that narrow body planes have awesome range now. Even coast to coast flights are usually 737's or A320's. NG 737's sadly made my favorite narrow body redundant. (757). When I was a kid, cross country nonstop flights meant a wide body by default. Hell, from SNA to Hawaii only allows a 737. Well, with their certification not allowing pax wide bodies.
Damn it.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
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Well yes, but its retarded to claim that you won't fly with a particular major airline because of some accident you heard of. Almost every single major airline around the world has similar accident rates whether you're flyingon a russian or USA airline on USA/Russian/European designed aircraft.

The point behind my posts is that, people hear about these crashes, explain them by saying shit like the Russians are drunk idiots, and then when they hear the statistics/comparisons behind them, they stick their hands in their ears and ignore evidence.

Don't russian planes have like a 30% higher incident rate?

Actually, no. IATA says that in 2010 russian airlines had 3x more incidents and fatalities than the average.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/09/08/f-faq-russian-aviation-safety.html
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
I started to hate the fact that narrow body planes have awesome range now. Even coast to coast flights are usually 737's or A320's. NG 737's sadly made my favorite narrow body redundant. (757). When I was a kid, cross country nonstop flights meant a wide body by default. Hell, from SNA to Hawaii only allows a 737. Well, with their certification not allowing pax wide bodies.
Damn it.

Flying coast to coast I seem to encounter the odd A320, but are mostly 757s. I've flown Continental SEA->EWR on a 757 I believe. SEA-> MDT and SEA->ORD I believe were always 757s with United. I saw an A319 on SJC->MSP...

etc etc etc...I think I've basically flown on only one 737 and that was with Alaska. I've flown a MD80 going MDT->ATL. I guess my point is that I see tons of 757s and not much else in my travels, on the longer legs at least. The small connecting flights have the crappy puddle jumpers not designed for someone who is 6'4". My knees literally are jammed into the seat back in front of me.
 

freegeeks

Diamond Member
May 7, 2001
5,460
1
81
flew Heathrow - Singapore on a a380 last year for my trip to Australia. Added bonus was the singapore airlines a380 business class which is amazing
 
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lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
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Flying coast to coast I seem to encounter the odd A320, but are mostly 757s. I've flown Continental SEA->EWR on a 757 I believe. SEA-> MDT and SEA->ORD I believe were always 757s with United. I saw an A319 on SJC->MSP...

etc etc etc...I think I've basically flown on only one 737 and that was with Alaska. I've flown a MD80 going MDT->ATL. I guess my point is that I see tons of 757s and not much else in my travels, on the longer legs at least. The small connecting flights have the crappy puddle jumpers not designed for someone who is 6'4". My knees literally are jammed into the seat back in front of me.

so how are you feeling about the news that the 737 going to have more rows of seating added.
 

DaTT

Garage Moderator
Moderator
Feb 13, 2003
13,295
122
106
More people die in US from guns shots, like in Newton School than from russian aircraft accidents...
Want to compare DEMOCRACIES? US or Russia's? Where were killed more people? under US "democracy" - Iraq, Haiti, Chile...etc or under Russia's - Chechnya?

"Plane going to crash?" What about a big recent scandal in US Congress - Pentagon buying from China electronic counterfeit pars for US Defense...?

Sorry, OP was about aircrafts, but some arrogant and ignorant assholes are asking to go at them...Looks, like some of them have read american version of "Mein Kamph": Zbigniew Brzezinski:The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives

Some just simply brainwashed: everything good - US, everything bad: Russia...

I think you're an uptight bitch.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
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Geez.. most of the flights I've been taking lately have even smaller planes than a 737. I usually find myself on an Embarer Regional Jet.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
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so how are you feeling about the news that the 737 going to have more rows of seating added.

Didn't even know that was happening. It just means I'll be more picky about flights or buy into the Delta and United extra legroom seats. Nothing new, really. I didn't fit the 737s in the first place. :(
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,108
11,285
136
Sheesh! What is it with Americans and how ridiculously defensive they are over Boeing?
 

chubbyfatazn

Golden Member
Oct 14, 2006
1,617
35
91
Russian planes are irrelevant in the first world. You cannot argue that fact. No one who does not need to fly a Russian plane will fly one. They fly them because they cannot afford any other manufacturers. Look at Aeroflot's fleet. What are they running now? 25% Russian planes?

The Superjet 100 is a perfect example of Russian planes and the outlook the world has on them. Nobody wants it. It's cheaper to run but it's still a Sukhoi and that has a bad connotation.

Necro'ed, but...

They're irrelevant because of the Cold War/communism. Until the 1970s-ish, Soviet planes were very much on par with Western aviation. Hell, even the VC10 had a few design cues from the Il-62, notably the "dogtoothed" wing.

Then major advances in avionics and engine technology gave Western-built planes a massive upper hand, and new planes like the Il-86 and the Tu-144 were forced to run on less-advanced engines with up to five crew, giving a much higher operating cost.

But that's beside the point. No one from the Western world other than Cuba and Venezuela had easy access to Soviet jets, and vice versa. So even by the time Soviet/Russian designs caught up with Western designs (which took awhile due in part to the collapse of the Soviet Union and economic stagnation in Russia), everyone who needed a jet of that size already had one in their fleet; there was no point in introducing another type that did the same thing as an already-existing type.

The vast majority of Western operators also had no experience with flying an Ilyushin or a Tupolev, and by that I mean they had no experience with maintaining the planes. Different design philosophies also existed: most Soviet/Russian jets were built beefy in order to withstand the cold and often poor weather conditions at airfields, and also to land on runways which were often unpaved or had poor runway surfaces at remote locations. Those conditions alone accounted for many accidents involving, for instance, the Tu-154, moreso than some sort of structural failure of the aircraft.

Also consider political ties. As a consortium, Airbus breaks down production of most of their jets and assigns different responsibilities to different countries. Obviously as a result there's plenty of pressure to buy Airbus in European countries, especially those that directly participate in manufacturing. Same thing with the US; take a look at the fleet histories of some of the legacies as well as the KC-135 tanker replacement contract that originally went to Northrop Grumman/Airbus.

About 12% of Aeroflot's fleet is Russian-built. They got considerable tax breaks on the purchases of their Il-96s iirc.

The Superjet 100 has 234 firm orders as of the time of this posting along with options for 107 more. Not bad for an aircraft entering so late into the game. It's fully certified to Western standards, and I would have no qualms about sitting my ass in one of them (or any other Soviet/Russian plane for that matter).
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
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I personally don't fly on Airbus planes. I've actually requested different flights because of it.

Boeing or I dont fly.
Your fear is irrational and even now the Airbus is selling more and more planes than Boeing, they have newly built factory in america and the US customers also buy more and more of them.
There are some very drastic control philosophy differences between Boeing and Airbus.

Boeing backdrives all of their controls. If the pilot's stick moves, then the copilot's stick moves. If you turn auto-throttle on, the throttle levers will move up and down as engine power changes. On Airbus airplanes the stick position is not related to movement and the throttle lever position is completely disconnected from the actual throttle level. There are also a few steps that Boeing takes to ensure maintenance of control well outside the normal operating envelope.

In fact, the safety culture in France is different. Individuals can be criminally prosecuted for airplane crashes. This is not true in most countries. Allowing individuals to be criminally prosecuted creates a culture of cover ups, not one that is open.
Control column on fly-by-wire boeings is just like the joystick in the airbuses, you no longer directly control electro-mechanical and hydraulic systems but electrical switches inside it and the onboard computers control them based on your actions, the difference is that pilot in the boeing is still provided physical feedback relevant to actual state of the control. So yes the FWB on Boeings is not as aggressive, but doesn't really change anything regarding to safety.
All new airplanes became heavily electronized since late 80s anyway.

Although A380 is so freaking big, purely on aesthetics I like 747 more than A380.

What might become a problem in the future are emerging chinese aerospace companies, they could easily destroy either the Boeing Airbus duopoly or bring new safety hazards to aviation.
I doubt any American president can survive buying an Airbus over Boeing :biggrin:
It won't surprise me if they get A380.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
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Boeing allows the pilot to override the FBW, Airbus does not. That's another major difference.

Boeing and Airbus are both doing well selling airplanes.
 

jaedaliu

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2005
2,670
1
81
Your fear is irrational and even now the Airbus is selling more and more planes than Boeing, they have newly built factory in america and the US customers also buy more and more of them..

So much for Boeing severely underbidding the KC contract to keep Airbus out of the Americas. Your timing's a little off. They just had ground breaking in April. I doubt the factory is built already. It probably won't be done until 2104.

And customers worldwide are buying more more airplanes. I believe your statement is intentionally ignoring the fact that Airbus and Boeing are sold out for years, and both are making planes as quickly as possible. (though, Boeing is definitely making more profit on the 737 than airbus is on the a320 if you just look at overhead from final assembly sites. (3 airbus to 1 boeing. Ratio subject to change with the mobile expansion and Boeing's eventual expansion))
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
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So much for Boeing severely underbidding the KC contract to keep Airbus out of the Americas. Your timing's a little off. They just had ground breaking in April. I doubt the factory is built already. It probably won't be done until 2104.

And customers worldwide are buying more more airplanes. I believe your statement is intentionally ignoring the fact that Airbus and Boeing are sold out for years, and both are making planes as quickly as possible. (though, Boeing is definitely making more profit on the 737 than airbus is on the a320 if you just look at overhead from final assembly sites. (3 airbus to 1 boeing. Ratio subject to change with the mobile expansion and Boeing's eventual expansion))

you misunderstood me, I'm not saying airbus is anyhow better but I had to state that airbus customer base is growing as to contradict the guy's fear from flying with them although you are right the factory is not yet completed
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,648
46,343
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What might become a problem in the future are emerging chinese aerospace companies, they could easily destroy either the Boeing Airbus duopoly or bring new safety hazards to aviation.

I think "easily" overstates the case quite a bit. People looking at the failure rates of products made by native Chinese companies that aren't watched like hawks on Adderal by US or European customers/partners would surely have many doubts about buying a plane from them in the foreseeable future. This could change in the coming decades but it most certainly isn't going to happen quickly or easily.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Pretty plane. Much better looking that the A380. There is something neat about watching a plane take off for the first time.

The interesting info I found:

According to the official Airbus price list, A350 prices range from $254 million to $332 million. Boeing’s rival 787 Dreamliner goes for $206 million to $243 million, but airlines typically get discounts for large orders.

Article was from May, so I'm guessing that's up to date?