Airbus A380: So big; it's useless.

[0roo0roo]

errr american plane engines have nothing to do with american car engines. you can't make up any opinion going on that. never mind some eu figures look better because they measure their mpg different, thats right, not everyone uses epa standard testing, and us gallon isn't the same as imperial gallon which is larger and makes people think wow those euro's have magical high mpg cars

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: z0mb13
IIRC even boeing admits that there is a significant market for this extra large jumbo jet (forgot how many units they predicted). They say the market is large enough for both players (Boeing and airbus)

no they didn't, boeing has made statements the international market for this size is maybe 400 planes, and that airbus is "welcome to have it".

As mentioned earlier, the breakeven point for the project is exactly how big the market is, and the more airbus encounters engineering delays and cost overruns, the less likely the project will ever make a single dime, let alone dig airbus deeper into the hole.

Of course, when you suck on government teat for your commercial product development, it doesn't really matter.

go pick up the latest version of popular mechanics. Boeing said the market for this super jumbo jet is more than 1000 planes.

Thats the dumbest place ever to try and cite facts from.
Hell, if Pop Sci/Mech was even HALF right we'd all have flying cars by now and Boeing would have been out of business a decade ago, and I'd have tickets for the next space elevator launch to the moon for vacation this weekend.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa
IMHO, the modern EU plane is going to be more fuel efficient than the US by comparing the automobile engines.

You do realize that engines are not bulit by Airbus or Boeing, right? GE/Pratt and Whitney make up the majority of engines on A380 orders, right now, with Rolls-Royce coming in 2nd.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Iamwiz is correct, there are three main jet engine manufacturers for commercial airliners:

Rolls-Royce (The Best)
GE (Mid-Grade Option)
P+W (Value Option)

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Iamwiz is correct, there are three main jet engine manufacturers for commercial airliners:

Rolls-Royce (The Best)
GE (Mid-Grade Option)
P+W (Value Option)

And GE and P&W have an alliance for the GP7200.

But man, the Trent 800 sounds so good. I haven't heard the 900 yet, but I bet it sounds great as well.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa
IMHO, the modern EU plane is going to be more fuel efficient than the US by comparing the automobile engines.

WTF shut up Airbus and Boeing don't make jet engines and an automobile is a tonka toy compared to a commercial airliner. Also, GM makes the most fuel efficient automobile engines in the world based on displacement and output.

 

[gwarbot]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: gwarbot
Bigger the plane, the bigger the risk. More people more deaths. Higher risk? im in.

As long as risk per mile is the same, it doesn't matter how many passengers are on the plane. Small plane will carry half the people but have to fly twice the miles to transport same number of people. So risk is the same.

Not really the more people you stuff into one area, creates a bigger chance of you being next to someone who i going to snap, or cause harm.

 

[silverpig]

The A380 is scheduled to land here in Vancouver on the 29th. It won't be available for public viewing, but there'll be a bit of a media circus.

 

[WackyDan]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: WackyDan

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: DLeRium
I don't know.. maybe most of you don't fly a lot or whatever, but most of the time when I fly to Europe,I ride in 767s or MD-11s. Then again that's because I hop to the East Coast first then fly on. Now if you fly from Chicago or from the West Coast, that's when they throw in the 747s, 777s. Then I fly to Asia, which is always in a 747 if not in a 777 (rarely an MD-11), but the point is maybe you guys are looking at the wrong market and then throwing out the A380.

Think of it this way. Wherever the 747 flies, the A380 can fly too.

With the exception (as been brought up previously) airports that can handle the A380 and/or want to.

If the cost to upgrade is not worth the demand/benefit, an airport will not allow the A380 in. Few airlines will foot the upgrade bill on their own and no airline will try to move their main airport operations away to "blackmail" the airport into doing the upgrade.

Many airports simply won't be able to do the upgrades. ORD can't even get its runway situation straightend out to help existing traffic. So that means the two busiest airports in the US can't take the plane (ATL and ORD). Even more to the point, no major US airline has even ordered the A380 (they are still out buying 777s and 787s). So for the forseeable future you are limted to foreign airlines mostly flying the 380 into LAX/SFO/JFK.

I think the market for the A380 is smaller than anticipated given its access requirements. It will likely still make money but it may take a decade or two longer than expected, especially given the ongoing problems.

US Air is on the order list for the 380. ATL and ORD can take a 380 with upgrades to both ramp space(jet ways etc), and taxiways. THough at ATL I imagine it would be easier.

Don't confuse volume of takeoffs with volume of passengers per plane.

Link?

AFAIK no US passenger airline has ordered it.

Was in the charlotte observer last week or two after Fedex cancelled it's order.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa
IMHO, the modern EU plane is going to be more fuel efficient than the US by comparing the automobile engines.

OMG, I read this and I can't stop laughing. Read up on GE.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: iversonyin
I'm just wondering where you get the number from.

boeing

From what I've read about the Dreamliner so far, its going to be made out of light carbon fiber types material, so its going to be lighter and supposingly more fuel efficient.

yup. more fuel efficient than airliners it's size, but it is only getting to where current jumbo jets are (read: 747) in terms of fuel per seat-mile

And let just say that the Dreamliner is not as fuel efficient as A380 per seat-mile for argurment sake. Wouldn't it be hard for airline to fill a A380 on 1 route as to the Dreamliner?

yes, which is why it is going to be filling super-heavy traffic routes, whereas the dreamliner will be used on lower traffic routes. which consumers tend to like because it'll be a 0 connection route (hub to second city rather than hub to hub to second city)

So effectively, the Dreamliner can yield more seat-mile?

only if the airlines aren't selling seats on the bigger planes.

Boeing's vision is that airlines are going to offer more routes and more flights- so that they will buy smaller aircraft instead of double deck jets like A380.

yep.

We don't know if teh Dreamliner will deliver, but we know the A380 hasn't.

A380 hasn't been delivered yet. singapore air is going to absolutely love them, though. they'll be good for sing air and other pacific rim and middle east carriers. the problem is that the A380 might not deliver for airbus. yes, they'll accept a small loss on it because it's a halo plane, but the results for other aircraft in their line aren't as tangible as those that the 787 will contribute (787 tech will work for the new 747 and 737).

My prediction is that the A380 will probably dominate (if its ever deliver without any problem) long international route.

it'll dominate any very high traffic route. that could be a route such as NY to washington, where loaded 747s are currently flown.

While the Dreamliners would take most of domestic's market.

maybe coast to coast flights, but not lower volume stuff in the heartland where prices are already low and the small planes offer the benefit of running multiple times a day. 787 is destined for lower volume international flights more than anything else. just like the 777 and 767 have been. say, houston to shanghai if such a route ever opened.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: silverpig
The A380 is scheduled to land here in Vancouver on the 29th. It won't be available for public viewing, but there'll be a bit of a media circus.

yup, landed today, departs tomorrow.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: silverpig
The A380 is scheduled to land here in Vancouver on the 29th. It won't be available for public viewing, but there'll be a bit of a media circus.

yup, landed today, departs tomorrow.

Oh really? I heard it was supposed to leave at 4 pm today. Weather delay?

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Vic
Also, GM makes the most fuel efficient automobile engines in the world based on displacement and output.

Which one is that? Is it a production engine? I heard the M3 straight 6 produced the most BHP/litre, that was a while a go though...

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: silverpig
The A380 is scheduled to land here in Vancouver on the 29th. It won't be available for public viewing, but there'll be a bit of a media circus.

yup, landed today, departs tomorrow.

Oh really? I heard it was supposed to leave at 4 pm today. Weather delay?

That's wht the news said IIRC. Might be weather related.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: silverpig
The A380 is scheduled to land here in Vancouver on the 29th. It won't be available for public viewing, but there'll be a bit of a media circus.

yup, landed today, departs tomorrow.

Oh really? I heard it was supposed to leave at 4 pm today. Weather delay?

That's wht the news said IIRC. Might be weather related.

They lied

Vid of it taking off

Some guy from the canucks forums took that yesterday. *note: one of the spectators says sh!t, so don't listen at work or with little kids if that bothers you*

 

[EagleKeeper]

Vid does not really generate a comparison of the size.

Can not see anything but the wheel lights until midway through the vid.
I am unsure if it is the weather, time of day or the camera used?

Total of 5-10 seconds of the plane as it goes over.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Vid does not really generate a comparison of the size.

Can not see anything but the wheel lights until midway through the vid.
I am unsure if it is the weather, time of day or the camera used?

Total of 5-10 seconds of the plane as it goes over.

Yeah it's pretty bad. Weather was very low cloud with intermittent snow. Time of day was around 4:30 pm, camera I'm not too sure of.

There are a few pics I'll try to link to later too.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: silverpig
The A380 is scheduled to land here in Vancouver on the 29th. It won't be available for public viewing, but there'll be a bit of a media circus.

yup, landed today, departs tomorrow.

Oh really? I heard it was supposed to leave at 4 pm today. Weather delay?

That's wht the news said IIRC. Might be weather related.

They lied

Vid of it taking off

Some guy from the canucks forums took that yesterday. *note: one of the spectators says sh!t, so don't listen at work or with little kids if that bothers you*

I probably misheard what they were saying then.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: sandorski
I probably misheard what they were saying then.

Probably not. A few other people said they heard that too. Then others corrected them and said the news just messed up.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: sandorski
I probably misheard what they were saying then.

Probably not. A few other people said they heard that too. Then others corrected them and said the news just messed up.

Those fargin iceholes!

Ah well, cool it stopped by.

 

[SSSnail]

Regarding the market for this plane, yes there is a market. If you travel frequently in/around Asia, you'll know that there is a market, let alone the trans-atlantic and trans-pacific.

But, the money that's made on this plane is not to cramp more seats in there on these flights. Yes there will be more economy seats than a 747 currently have, but most of the spaces will be configured for first class and business class traveling, where the real money is made.

I fly quite often, lets say more than 100K miles a year, and sometimes, it's hard to find an open seat in first or business to upgrade (if I purchase tickets at moments notice) on international flights. If you think that there are not enough people flying, you obviously haven't been to an airport lately. Funny that I noticed there are more emptied seats on domestic flights than there are on international.

Give them sometimes, the world only produce more people, which mean they'll succeed.

Edit: Sorry, have to put my two bits in regarding South West. They're profitable not because they fly the small airplanes, but their business model is most efficient. They fly the SAME model on all routes, so that means they can fly any model and still be profitable. That translates to crew familiarization to the same airplane, less trainings (both on operation and maintenance) since they only have to worry about one type of airplane, etc...

 

[ElFenix]

IFLC has converted its order for 5 A380 freighters into the passenger version. so only UPS has an order for them now. which means they might never be built.

the A380 has a total of under 150 firm orders, with 43 of those from one airline, emirates (which wants an airbus manufacturing contract).

the 747-8 freighter has a total of over 40 orders.

it appears that longtime airbus supporter lufthansa has become the first 747-8 passenger liner customer. (and the first 747 customer in 4 years) that might open the flood doors. 747-8 uses dreamliner engines and added composites, making it more efficient (and probably longer range) than the 747-400. it also adds about 50 passengers over the 747-400, to about 467.

the 787 (which serves a different market) has over 400 planes on order. it is scheduled to be ready for airline deliver in 2008.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
IFLC has converted its order for 5 A380 freighters into the passenger version. so only UPS has an order for them now. which means they might never be built.

the A380 has a total of under 150 firm orders, with 43 of those from one airline, emirates (which wants an airbus manufacturing contract).

the 747-8 freighter has a total of over 40 orders.

it appears that longtime airbus supporter lufthansa has become the first 747-8 passenger liner customer. (and the first 747 customer in 4 years) that might open the flood doors. 747-8 uses dreamliner engines and added composites, making it more efficient (and probably longer range) than the 747-400. it also adds about 50 passengers over the 747-400, to about 467.

the 787 (which serves a different market) has over 400 planes on order. it is scheduled to be ready for airline deliver in 2008.

Link?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: ElFenix
IFLC has converted its order for 5 A380 freighters into the passenger version. so only UPS has an order for them now. which means they might never be built.

the A380 has a total of under 150 firm orders, with 43 of those from one airline, emirates (which wants an airbus manufacturing contract).

the 747-8 freighter has a total of over 40 orders.

it appears that longtime airbus supporter lufthansa has become the first 747-8 passenger liner customer. (and the first 747 customer in 4 years) that might open the flood doors. 747-8 uses dreamliner engines and added composites, making it more efficient (and probably longer range) than the 747-400. it also adds about 50 passengers over the 747-400, to about 467.

the 787 (which serves a different market) has over 400 planes on order. it is scheduled to be ready for airline deliver in 2008.

Link?

Lufthansa just ordered 20 747-8s with options on 20 more.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aX.T.qwz_XRE&refer=home