Air conditioning dilema

[oboeguy]

Long story short, I need A/C in our ~10'x12' living room. Two problems:

1) For multiple reasons I won't be able to use a window unit. (Edit: but I can vent a portable through a window)

2) The room has no door, opening into a long hallway (like 3' wide and ~40' feet long).

For problem 1), I'm looking at this. Any suggestions for problem 2? Beaded curtain? (can't put in a door)

 

[nageov3t]

portable ac units still need a window or something... with what you're describing, you might be stuck with a tub of ice and a fan.

 

[oboeguy]

Originally posted by: loki8481
portable ac units still need a window or something... with what you're describing, you might be stuck with a tub of ice and a fan.

Heh, I should have mentioned (edited now) that I can vent a portable through a window.

 

[Wheezer]

I borrowed a portable unit once when our central air was out and it worked great for a room that was slightly bigger than what you have....it was a 10,000 BTU unit.

For the hallway I would look into thermal curtains, ones that people normally hang in the winter to keep the heat in, of course for you it would work in reverse.

 

[imported_Baloo]

Window Unit FTW. Yeah, you said for multiple reasons you can't, but I can say there's a way.

Now explain why you need it in just the living room, and nowhere else.
West facing windows in the living room? Tinfoil them, shiny side out. Amazingly effective and cheap way to stop the sun roasting your living room.

 

[oboeguy]

OK, I'll explain why a window unit won't work. One window is on the fire escape. The other has a small, decorative balcony outside of it. The balcony is not nearly big enough for an A/C to stick out. Now suppose I found an A/C unit that had most of the bulk inside -- that doesn't work either b/c we have bars on the windows (NYC fact of life).

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: oboeguy
OK, I'll explain why a window unit won't work. One window is on the fire escape. The other has a small, decorative balcony outside of it. The balcony is not nearly big enough for an A/C to stick out. Now suppose I found an A/C unit that had most of the bulk inside -- that doesn't work either b/c we have bars on the windows (NYC fact of life).

being this sounds like a rental it may not work, and without knowing your budget.

The best of a/c's are the mitsubishi types with two parts. They are $2k+...they are much more efficient, quieter and cooler.

The next best is a wall unit, you can put these inside a cage for security. It's not a complex project but you usually will find the right place to do the cutout is below an existing window (although above could usually work too). You will need to know what's inside the wall, plumbing will usually be a deal breaker...electrical can usually be moved to the side.

the units will drip outside so remember to allow for that.

Those inside units are more for temporary use, you will find yourself emptying them alot.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Sounds like a portable will work fine in your situation.

And just put a curtain up in the doorway to keep the cool air in.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

http://www.compactappliance.co...12000S,default,pd.html


I just got this one this week and its really good for the price, $395 free shipping and no tax for 12,000 BTU. I took one back to Home Depot that was 8,000 BTU and cost $299, but with tax it came to $322 so for what 73 bucks more I got a much better unit online.

 

[oboeguy]

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
http://www.compactappliance.co...12000S,default,pd.html


I just got this one this week and its really good for the price, $395 free shipping and no tax for 12,000 BTU. I took one back to Home Depot that was 8,000 BTU and cost $299, but with tax it came to $322 so for what 73 bucks more I got a much better unit online.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I think that would blow the fusebox. No joke -- the wiring here isn't so good, and yes, fusebox, not circuit breaker.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
http://www.compactappliance.co...12000S,default,pd.html


I just got this one this week and its really good for the price, $395 free shipping and no tax for 12,000 BTU. I took one back to Home Depot that was 8,000 BTU and cost $299, but with tax it came to $322 so for what 73 bucks more I got a much better unit online.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I think that would blow the fusebox. No joke -- the wiring here isn't so good, and yes, fusebox, not circuit breaker.

it's only pulling 8 amps...as long as you don't have any other major appliance on that circuit you should be ok.

I could not find the 900 model you originally posted, but that same company makes a 1200 model that pulls 8.2 amps so in either case you should be ok.

Check the fuse size....I think most are 15-20 amps.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

The one you are looking at is the one I have had for 3 years. It could easily cool a 15x15 room. The window exhaust footprint is rather small, and hardly noticeable from the outside,(live with an HOA). The condensation is pumped out through the exhaust hose with a mister, so it doesn't just drip down the side of your building. As to the doorway, heavy mil clear plastic and push pins? Kind of like you see at ice houses, and meat packing plants.

 

[oboeguy]

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz
The one you are looking at is the one I have had for 3 years. It could easily cool a 15x15 room. The window exhaust footprint is rather small, and hardly noticeable from the outside,(live with an HOA). The condensation is pumped out through the exhaust hose with a mister, so it doesn't just drip down the side of your building. As to the doorway, heavy mil clear plastic and push pins? Kind of like you see at ice houses, and meat packing plants.

Ah, glad you like that unit -- I feel better about getting it! Sounds like the 9000 BTU unit will do the trick (though thanks to Wheezer for checking the specs of 12000). I don't think, though, that the wife would like the clear plastic curtain.

Edit: Fuses are 30A. I could run two of those puppies and not break a sweat, so to speak (assuming the correct Amperage fuses are in there!).

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz
The one you are looking at is the one I have had for 3 years. It could easily cool a 15x15 room. The window exhaust footprint is rather small, and hardly noticeable from the outside,(live with an HOA). The condensation is pumped out through the exhaust hose with a mister, so it doesn't just drip down the side of your building. As to the doorway, heavy mil clear plastic and push pins? Kind of like you see at ice houses, and meat packing plants.

Ah, glad you like that unit -- I feel better about getting it! Sounds like the 9000 BTU unit will do the trick (though thanks to Wheezer for checking the specs of 12000). I don't think, though, that the wife would like the clear plastic curtain.

Edit:[] Fuses are 30A. I could run two of those puppies and not break a sweat, so to speak (assuming the correct Amperage fuses are in there!).

I can say with 99% certainty that those are the WRONG size fuses. For those to be correct, the wire would need to be #10 or larger and that ain't likely to be there as outlets can only typically accept #12 or #14 wire. Those are rated at 20 and 15 amps respectively..
Someone has increased the size of the fuses to accommodate a modern living scenario and if, as I suspect, you have old school romex, that stuff is a fire waiting to happen. After countless heating and cooling cycles from the increased load on the wire, the insulation deteriorates and cracks, leading to arcing and fire.
ESPECIALLY when hit with a relatively high demand appliance like an AC unit.
I would be very careful about how much I would allow to be turned on when the AC unit is running. Could be very close to the max capabilities of the old wiring.

 

[oboeguy]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz
The one you are looking at is the one I have had for 3 years. It could easily cool a 15x15 room. The window exhaust footprint is rather small, and hardly noticeable from the outside,(live with an HOA). The condensation is pumped out through the exhaust hose with a mister, so it doesn't just drip down the side of your building. As to the doorway, heavy mil clear plastic and push pins? Kind of like you see at ice houses, and meat packing plants.

Ah, glad you like that unit -- I feel better about getting it! Sounds like the 9000 BTU unit will do the trick (though thanks to Wheezer for checking the specs of 12000). I don't think, though, that the wife would like the clear plastic curtain.

Edit:[] Fuses are 30A. I could run two of those puppies and not break a sweat, so to speak (assuming the correct Amperage fuses are in there!).

I can say with 99% certainty that those are the WRONG size fuses. For those to be correct, the wire would need to be #10 or larger and that ain't likely to be there as outlets can only typically accept #12 or #14 wire. Those are rated at 20 and 15 amps respectively..
Someone has increased the size of the fuses to accommodate a modern living scenario and if, as I suspect, you have old school romex, that stuff is a fire waiting to happen. After countless heating and cooling cycles from the increased load on the wire, the insulation deteriorates and cracks, leading to arcing and fire.
ESPECIALLY when hit with a relatively high demand appliance like an AC unit.
I would be very careful about how much I would allow to be turned on when the AC unit is running. Could be very close to the max capabilities of the old wiring.

Yikes! Thanks for the tip. Any way to check the wiring? Thanks!

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz
The one you are looking at is the one I have had for 3 years. It could easily cool a 15x15 room. The window exhaust footprint is rather small, and hardly noticeable from the outside,(live with an HOA). The condensation is pumped out through the exhaust hose with a mister, so it doesn't just drip down the side of your building. As to the doorway, heavy mil clear plastic and push pins? Kind of like you see at ice houses, and meat packing plants.

Ah, glad you like that unit -- I feel better about getting it! Sounds like the 9000 BTU unit will do the trick (though thanks to Wheezer for checking the specs of 12000). I don't think, though, that the wife would like the clear plastic curtain.

Edit:[] Fuses are 30A. I could run two of those puppies and not break a sweat, so to speak (assuming the correct Amperage fuses are in there!).

I can say with 99% certainty that those are the WRONG size fuses. For those to be correct, the wire would need to be #10 or larger and that ain't likely to be there as outlets can only typically accept #12 or #14 wire. Those are rated at 20 and 15 amps respectively..
Someone has increased the size of the fuses to accommodate a modern living scenario and if, as I suspect, you have old school romex, that stuff is a fire waiting to happen. After countless heating and cooling cycles from the increased load on the wire, the insulation deteriorates and cracks, leading to arcing and fire.
ESPECIALLY when hit with a relatively high demand appliance like an AC unit.
I would be very careful about how much I would allow to be turned on when the AC unit is running. Could be very close to the max capabilities of the old wiring.

Yikes! Thanks for the tip. Any way to check the wiring? Thanks!

No need, I can say with 99% certainty there is no way in hell your, *apartment* is wired for 30 amp all around. Maybe you just saw the main(s).

 

[bonkers325]

for the curtain, just buy a dowel from home depot and drape a long window curtain over it

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz
The one you are looking at is the one I have had for 3 years. It could easily cool a 15x15 room. The window exhaust footprint is rather small, and hardly noticeable from the outside,(live with an HOA). The condensation is pumped out through the exhaust hose with a mister, so it doesn't just drip down the side of your building. As to the doorway, heavy mil clear plastic and push pins? Kind of like you see at ice houses, and meat packing plants.

Ah, glad you like that unit -- I feel better about getting it! Sounds like the 9000 BTU unit will do the trick (though thanks to Wheezer for checking the specs of 12000). I don't think, though, that the wife would like the clear plastic curtain.

Edit:[] Fuses are 30A. I could run two of those puppies and not break a sweat, so to speak (assuming the correct Amperage fuses are in there!).

I can say with 99% certainty that those are the WRONG size fuses. For those to be correct, the wire would need to be #10 or larger and that ain't likely to be there as outlets can only typically accept #12 or #14 wire. Those are rated at 20 and 15 amps respectively..
Someone has increased the size of the fuses to accommodate a modern living scenario and if, as I suspect, you have old school romex, that stuff is a fire waiting to happen. After countless heating and cooling cycles from the increased load on the wire, the insulation deteriorates and cracks, leading to arcing and fire.
ESPECIALLY when hit with a relatively high demand appliance like an AC unit.
I would be very careful about how much I would allow to be turned on when the AC unit is running. Could be very close to the max capabilities of the old wiring.

Yikes! Thanks for the tip. Any way to check the wiring? Thanks!

Go to a Home Depot or some place that sells electrical wiring. Ask for 1inch of 10gauge, 12 gauge, and 14 gauge, so you have something to compare your wiring to. Hmmmm... save 25cents; just get 12 gauge and 14 gauge. Look at the 10 gauge to see that it's bigger.

Go back to your apartment, take a flat head screwdriver and remove the cover from an outlet. There are 2 screws holding the outlet to the box it's in. Remove those screws. Gently pull the outlet straight out until you can clearly see the wiring & compare it to the two pieces of wire you have. Be very careful not to touch the wiring or terminals of the outlet with your hand, or to anything metal. If it makes you feel better, take the fuse out first. (edit: but still be cautious. I've seen it once before where someone branches off from the main breaker panel to a sub panel, and reverses the wiring in the sub panel: the neutral is fused instead of the hot. This wouldn't happen these days, unless the person was an absolute moron. But, a few decades ago, the wire was covered in cloth & there wasn't as big a difference as todays white/black)

If you were to poll the people here with experience in electricity, you'd get a narrow range of answers as to our certainty that 30amps is too large of a fuse. That range of certainty would be between 98% and 100%. The reason I suggest comparing the wiring is that, at least in my own experience, older homes/apartments have typically been wired with 14 gauge. 30amps may "only" be twice as much current running through those wires as is considered safe by electrical code (if they're 14 gauge), but twice the current means 4 times the heating in those wires.

And, if you're worried about blowing a fuse, it seems to me that you've blown fuses before. That's not good. How many fuses control your entire apartment?

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz
The one you are looking at is the one I have had for 3 years. It could easily cool a 15x15 room. The window exhaust footprint is rather small, and hardly noticeable from the outside,(live with an HOA). The condensation is pumped out through the exhaust hose with a mister, so it doesn't just drip down the side of your building. As to the doorway, heavy mil clear plastic and push pins? Kind of like you see at ice houses, and meat packing plants.

Ah, glad you like that unit -- I feel better about getting it! Sounds like the 9000 BTU unit will do the trick (though thanks to Wheezer for checking the specs of 12000). I don't think, though, that the wife would like the clear plastic curtain.

Edit:[] Fuses are 30A. I could run two of those puppies and not break a sweat, so to speak (assuming the correct Amperage fuses are in there!).

I can say with 99% certainty that those are the WRONG size fuses. For those to be correct, the wire would need to be #10 or larger and that ain't likely to be there as outlets can only typically accept #12 or #14 wire. Those are rated at 20 and 15 amps respectively..
Someone has increased the size of the fuses to accommodate a modern living scenario and if, as I suspect, you have old school romex, that stuff is a fire waiting to happen. After countless heating and cooling cycles from the increased load on the wire, the insulation deteriorates and cracks, leading to arcing and fire.
ESPECIALLY when hit with a relatively high demand appliance like an AC unit.
I would be very careful about how much I would allow to be turned on when the AC unit is running. Could be very close to the max capabilities of the old wiring.

Yikes! Thanks for the tip. Any way to check the wiring? Thanks!

No need, I can say with 99% certainty there is no way in hell your, *apartment* is wired for 30 amp all around. Maybe you just saw the main(s).

I'd say that someone was probably blowing 15-20amp fuses, and decided to get 30amp, without knowing (or caring?) that the place could go up in smoke..

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: JLee
I'd say that someone was probably blowing 15-20amp fuses, and decided to get 30amp, without knowing (or caring?) that the place could go up in smoke..

I'll bet it would make for a very interesting court case if a tenant did that & the place did go up in smoke; the tenant & owner suing each other.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
http://www.compactappliance.co...12000S,default,pd.html


I just got this one this week and its really good for the price, $395 free shipping and no tax for 12,000 BTU. I took one back to Home Depot that was 8,000 BTU and cost $299, but with tax it came to $322 so for what 73 bucks more I got a much better unit online.

Actually, there is tax on it. You're just dodging the responsibility of submitting it to the state.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz
The one you are looking at is the one I have had for 3 years. It could easily cool a 15x15 room. The window exhaust footprint is rather small, and hardly noticeable from the outside,(live with an HOA). The condensation is pumped out through the exhaust hose with a mister, so it doesn't just drip down the side of your building. As to the doorway, heavy mil clear plastic and push pins? Kind of like you see at ice houses, and meat packing plants.

Ah, glad you like that unit -- I feel better about getting it! Sounds like the 9000 BTU unit will do the trick (though thanks to Wheezer for checking the specs of 12000). I don't think, though, that the wife would like the clear plastic curtain.

Edit:[] Fuses are 30A. I could run two of those puppies and not break a sweat, so to speak (assuming the correct Amperage fuses are in there!).

I can say with 99% certainty that those are the WRONG size fuses. For those to be correct, the wire would need to be #10 or larger and that ain't likely to be there as outlets can only typically accept #12 or #14 wire. Those are rated at 20 and 15 amps respectively..
Someone has increased the size of the fuses to accommodate a modern living scenario and if, as I suspect, you have old school romex, that stuff is a fire waiting to happen. After countless heating and cooling cycles from the increased load on the wire, the insulation deteriorates and cracks, leading to arcing and fire.
ESPECIALLY when hit with a relatively high demand appliance like an AC unit.
I would be very careful about how much I would allow to be turned on when the AC unit is running. Could be very close to the max capabilities of the old wiring.

QFT...it's very common someone just gets tired of their microwave/hair dryer blowing their fuse so just screws in one like a 30A.

Doesn't blow the fuse anymore, but I am willing to bet if you touched the wiring it'd be hot as hell.

Definite risk for fire.

You can run a new cable out to the recepticle and then be good...

At least you didn't jam a penny in it.

 

[oboeguy]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

And, if you're worried about blowing a fuse, it seems to me that you've blown fuses before. That's not good. How many fuses control your entire apartment?

Nah, I've never blown a fuse in ths apt. I grew-up in a similar building (built in 1908 vs. 1911, possibly same architect, etc) and I remember fuses blowing once in a while back in the day. Anyhow, I'm not sure how many fuses there are. There are two fuse boxes, probably b/c on other floors, the same apartment is broken in two smaller units. The side which will have the fancy A/C has two fuses, but I didn't check the other. I'm concerned, though, that another room on the same box will have an A/C also (already in place, window unit, ~5000BTU). If the box makes any sense, they should be on two separate fuses, as there's a room in between. Still, a concern, no?

BTW, the price on the unit I linked went up by $20 overnight. Fortunately I have a print-out of last night's price and in true AT forums style, I will get my price, dang it!

 

[Capitalizt]

My advice: hang a black sheet over the windows to prevent hot sunlight from getting in. I do this and it works great.

Also, you can save a LOT of money by just getting 4-5 $10 desk fans from Wal-Mart and placing them around your house.. They use much less electricity than a true AC unit, and will give you a nice breeze through the entire house. Light clothes + a light breeze = win

 

[oboeguy]

Originally posted by: Capitalizt
My advice: hang a black sheet over the windows to prevent hot sunlight from getting in. I do this and it works great.

Also, you can save a LOT of money by just getting 4-5 $10 desk fans from Wal-Mart and placing them around your house.. They use much less electricity than a true AC unit, and will give you a nice breeze through the entire house. Light clothes + a light breeze = win

You're obviously not familiar with our sticky hot NYC summers. Also, the apartment is so not the sort that could benefit from such a strategy. Leaving my door open, yeah, that could create a nice breeze but (despite what a stupid idea that would be in NYC) even that's not good enough when it's 96 w/ 90% humidty.