Ah, you have lunch debt? Only jelly sammies for YOU!!

[DCal430]

I would gladly take a sunflower butter and jelly sandwich over the warm meal slop served at the schools I went to.

If the kids were left with nothing to eat, that would be another thing entirely, but that is not the case.

Also, school districts cannot rely on charity to plan or manage their budgets. As admirable as it is that Chobani stepped up, they can’t fund every child in every school district across the country.

Not only that:

“the decision targeted parents who could afford to pay for the lunches but didn’t as well as parents who are experiencing hardship and haven’t filled out paperwork to get financial assistance”

National crisis of food insecurity not found.

30% of the people it targets do get free lunch. Even children who have filled out the forms and are on the free lunch program are being targeted.

You and the district totally ignored the FACT that they are targeting children and parents who live in absolute poverty. Children who again have free lunch but made an error and took an extra item.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Without knowing the inner workings of the school district, this is speculative.

What we know: Schools plan meals ahead of time, some meals farther ahead then others. Either way, the food is purchased ahead of time. So Magnus is correct in the fact that the hot meal lunches served on days these kids we're singled out were bought and paid for ahead of time, and if these kids would have typically gotten hot lunch...then it would be waste at the end....

Our district does turn a profit, so I'd be curious to know what the Warwick district is like.

Some of this may change depending on the hot lunch served, because it may have been re-served later, like pizza or maybe a burger.

Also, the school makes the choice to go after anyone, even for a nickel. This may or may not be an automated process. If it is automated, then the districts software should have thresholds to set what the trigger amount is.

Most viral stories are speculative. I also didn’t say @MagnusTheBrewer was wrong, its just that his point is irrelevant.

Any restaurant or food establishment orders and budgets food, and prepares said food, based on both anticipated demand AND an expectation of compensation.

If a family walks into a restaurant, orders food and then says at the end they can’t pay, should the restaurant eat the cost? Even if the restaurant decides to be charitable, that will inevitably lead to exploitation.

As is often the case, this isn’t black and white. The school district’s side of the story places some of the blame on the parents, who have mechanisms available that they choose not to leverage.

This has every indication of a policy born of exasperation and frustration, and “thinking about the children” rarely solves the underlying problem.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I’m all for shaming people simply because it’s effective
I’m completely against shaming kids, especially for their Parents dodging responsibility

 

[ch33zw1z]

Most viral stories are speculative. I also didn’t say @MagnusTheBrewer was wrong, its just that his point is irrelevant.

Any restaurant or food establishment orders and budgets food, and prepares said food, based on both anticipated demand AND an expectation of compensation.

If a family walks into a restaurant, orders food and then says at the end they can’t pay, should the restaurant eat the cost? Even if the restaurant decides to be charitable, that will inevitably lead to exploitation.

As is often the case, this isn’t black and white. The school district’s side of the story places some of the blame on the parents, who have mechanisms available that they choose not to leverage.

This has every indication of a policy born of exasperation and frustration, and “thinking about the children” rarely solves the underlying problem.

Except his point is relevant. And a big difference here is its not a restaurant. This story certainly annunciates the foolishness involved with how we treat our children and citizens.

 

[DCal430]

You keep ignoring the FACT that the district chose to include students who do get free lunches and whose parents have no ability to pay.

 

[DCal430]

Again 20-30% of the kids affected do get free lunches, and instead of giving them the same free lunch as everyone else they get this shame sandwich. It is to she them for owing debt and being poor.

 

[Exterous]

Sure, could be, but it's a bit silly to speculate as such considering what school districts can, will, and do get away with.

I'm comparing it to real world in a neighboring state, in a district that participates in Federal school lunch program.

And there's nothing I've seen that says they MUST limit their options because they owe a nickel, or even a few bucks. Our district doesn't operate like that, thankfully. Wonder how MA scores measure up to RI for standardized testing.

Your example in a neighboring state is a terrible comparison without more data because states and even districts can have wildly varying laws and policies, many of which are set at a more local level than Federal. I have seen 'real world' examples where terrible policies are forced on schools, against the schools wishes, to the detriment of students, and which brings negative attention to the school.

I'm not saying that's the case here but it happens enough I think it's worth while to get more info before condemning the school or some admin over this

 

[ch33zw1z]

Your example in a neighboring state is a terrible comparison without more data because states and even districts can have wildly varying laws and policies, many of which are set at a more local level than Federal. I have seen 'real world' examples where terrible policies are forced on schools, against the schools wishes, to the detriment of students, and which brings negative attention to the school.

I'm not saying that's the case here but it happens enough I think it's worth while to get more info before condemning the school or some admin over this

So you're done speculating until you have more info?

I'm willing to receive information to alter my opinion, especially regarding whether or not some local ordinance forces punitive measures on the student for a nickel.

Until then, the school admin is on the burner.

 

[dawp]

looks like they couldn't stand the heat so they went back into the kitchen
https://thetakeout.com/rhode-island-schools-lunch-debt-sandwich-1834612711

 

[ch33zw1z]

looks like they couldn't stand the heat so they went back into the kitchen
https://thetakeout.com/rhode-island-schools-lunch-debt-sandwich-1834612711

wait, wuh? it's almost like the district had a choice in the decision. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Updated May 9, 2019: One day after the Warwick Public Schools system received national attention for a policy limiting the school lunch choice for students with unpaid debt, the school district announced it would not be implementing the program, which was scheduled to take effect on May 13.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Except his point is relevant. And a big difference here is its not a restaurant. This story certainly annunciates the foolishness involved with how we treat our children and citizens.

You’re right, restaurants can turn a profit where schools have to cover their operating costs.

A portion of the foolishness are the “lunch accounts” now available to parents for “convenience”. Kids can grab what they want, with no adult supervision to prevent them from running up a tab. Parents had more control over lunch buying decisions when they simply sent their kids to school with a bag of quarters, and managing that money taught kids several valuable lessons. The story makes mention that for some of the families on assistance programs, the kids are grabbing extra items,

 

[ch33zw1z]

You’re right, restaurants can turn a profit where schools have to cover their operating costs.

A portion of the foolishness are the “lunch accounts” now available to parents for “concenience”. Kids can grab what they want, with no adult supervision to prevent them from running up a tab. Parents had more control over lunch buying decisions when they simply sent their kids to school with a bag of quarters, and managing that money taught kids several valuable lessons. The story makes mention that for some of the families on assistance programs, the kids are grabbing extra items,

Yea, but that's not everyone. It's not black and white, like you said.

There are endless scenario's to go over if we wished to. Here's my stance: School Breakfast and Lunch is available to students, no questions. In a country that wastes an estimated 30-40% of our food supply, quibbling over this matter is foolish. Debating it is foolish. Punishing students for it is foolish

https://www.usda.gov/oce/foodwaste/faqs.htm

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yea, but that's not everyone. It's not black and white, like you said.

There are endless scenario's to go over if we wished to. Here's my stance: School Breakfast and Lunch is available to students, no questions. In a country that wastes an estimated 30-40% of our food supply, quibbling over this matter is foolish. Debating it is foolish. Punishing students for it is foolish

https://www.usda.gov/oce/foodwaste/faqs.htm

A better idea would be that there should not be one underfunded school district in the country such that lunch meal debt becomes a political flashpoint. This is not a problem unique to red states or blue states.

 

[ch33zw1z]

A better idea would be that there should not be one underfunded school district in the country such that lunch meal debt becomes a political flashpoint. This is not a problem unique to red states or blue states.

I don't recall saying it's a red/blue thing, but anyways. Of course, funding is the issue. What has to change is how we as a society treat our food supply relative to the needs of our citizens.

 

[Exterous]

So you're done speculating until you have more info?

I'm willing to receive information to alter my opinion, especially regarding whether or not some local ordinance forces punitive measures on the student for a nickel.

Until then, the school admin is on the burner.

Ah yes - the old "I don't actually have any proof but this person\group is to blame until someone can prove they didn't do it." We still don't know where the rule\policy was being driven from other than below the State level. So why, in your view, does the district administration get let off the hook? Or the locally elected school board above them? Seems odd to blame school level officials as this policy is typically set much higher than they are (given that the reporting is regarding the district. I don't see all school admin staff from all the schools in the district getting together to universally decide to implement this at each of their schools)

 

[ch33zw1z]

Ah yes - the old "I don't actually have any proof but this person\group is to blame until someone can prove they didn't do it." We still don't know where the rule\policy was being driven from other than below the State level. So why, in your view, does the district administration get let off the hook? Or the locally elected school board above them? Seems odd to blame school level officials as this policy is typically set much higher than they are (given that the reporting is regarding the district. I don't see all school admin staff from all the schools in the district getting together to universally decide to implement this at each of their schools)

Ah, the old my speculations > yours.

I wasn't letting anyone off the hook, just not interested in punitive measures against the students, and discussing why we shame others for basic needs in which our country wastes almost as much as we use. This problem is not limited but all over. It's not like Warwick is alone.

And youre still speculating.

 

[Thump553]

I've been thinking about this for a bit. For decades the farm subsidy bill consisted of basically two things: (1) subsidies to farmers/farm corporations which the rural GOP loved and (2) subsidies for food programs like WIC, subsidized school meals for low income kids, etc, which drew in the Dem votes.

The last time around the GOP controlled the House, Senate and White House. So they could ram the bill through with Dem votes, and they did so. They also drastically cut the food subsidies because, you know, got to save money.

It comes down to an old story-federal government mandates on local governments-in this case unfunded/underfunded because of GOP action. Pretty slick move-local school boards/governments take all the heat, are portrayed as the bad guys when the real villains get no blame at all-in fact are probably rewarded by their constituency and contributors.

 

[Ventanni]

While definitely a complex issue, and I want to remain sensitive to that, I think we also need to remember what actually "shaming" is; social media has overblown this way beyond what it actually is. I'm a grown man, and I've been eating peanut-butter sandwiches every day for the last 7 years. It started 'cause I had to, but now I continue to do so by choice. There is absolutely nothing shameful about that. The schools here are still providing a healthy lunch to these children regardless of the status of the debt.

It's also dumb that the schools are refusing donations, but all that highlights is how underfunded public education is these days.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

All food by definition is inherently healthy. Does it meet even their own pathetic guidelines for nutritional quality? Hell no.

 

[SMOGZINN]

As is often the case, this isn’t black and white. The school district’s side of the story places some of the blame on the parents, who have mechanisms available that they choose not to leverage.

Here is the solution: we stop expecting children to pay for food at the place that we mandate they be for half their day. It is crazy that we don't expect the institution charged with the care of these children to feed them. Imagine what would happen if a parent told child protective services that the child hadn't eaten because he didn't pay for his food.

Instead lets commit to making every school lunch absolutely free for all students. We do this by moving the money from farm subsidies to school food budgets and let the farms make up the money by selling the food to the schools. Not only would we get children feed we get the schools to use real food instead of pre-packaged highly processed junk food, and create a lot of jobs for chefs to prepare these meals as well.

The only real cost is that some mega corporations lose a little bit of free government money.
Oh, now I see why we don't do this.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

While definitely a complex issue, and I want to remain sensitive to that, I think we also need to remember what actually "shaming" is; social media has overblown this way beyond what it actually is. I'm a grown man, and I've been eating peanut-butter sandwiches every day for the last 7 years. It started 'cause I had to, but now I continue to do so by choice. There is absolutely nothing shameful about that. The schools here are still providing a healthy lunch to these children regardless of the status of the debt.

It's also dumb that the schools are refusing donations, but all that highlights is how underfunded public education is these days.

There's a difference though when dealing with kids. Kids fixate on differences. When kids suddenly see one kid isn't getting what they are getting they will go into "you're poor" mode. Let's face it. Kids are fucking assholes at the best of times but they love singling other kids out. Why force anyone into that situation for what is at times a few cents?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Here is the solution: we stop expecting children to pay for food at the place that we mandate they be for half their day. It is crazy that we don't expect the institution charged with the care of these children to feed them. Imagine what would happen if a parent told child protective services that the child hadn't eaten because he didn't pay for his food.

Instead lets commit to making every school lunch absolutely free for all students. We do this by moving the money from farm subsidies to school food budgets and let the farms make up the money by selling the food to the schools. Not only would we get children feed we get the schools to use real food instead of pre-packaged highly processed junk food, and create a lot of jobs for chefs to prepare these meals as well.

The only real cost is that some mega corporations lose a little bit of free government money.
Oh, now I see why we don't do this.

It’s a simple wave of the budgetary and policy wand, but then you will see more affluent school districts invest in better or higher quality “free” meals, and the goal posts will shift to the next inequity...but I agree with you that school lunch should not be a source of financial burden on any family.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Here is the solution: we stop expecting children to pay for food at the place that we mandate they be for half their day. It is crazy that we don't expect the institution charged with the care of these children to feed them. Imagine what would happen if a parent told child protective services that the child hadn't eaten because he didn't pay for his food.

Instead lets commit to making every school lunch absolutely free for all students. We do this by moving the money from farm subsidies to school food budgets and let the farms make up the money by selling the food to the schools. Not only would we get children feed we get the schools to use real food instead of pre-packaged highly processed junk food, and create a lot of jobs for chefs to prepare these meals as well.

The only real cost is that some mega corporations lose a little bit of free government money.
Oh, now I see why we don't do this.

You want to reduce bureaucracy and inefficiency at the local and federal level? Why do you hate America?

 

[SMOGZINN]

It’s a simple wave of the budgetary and policy wand, but then you will see more affluent school districts invest in better or higher quality “free” meals, and the goal posts will shift to the next inequity...but I agree with you that school lunch should not be a source of financial burden on any family.

We can not get rid of all inequality. It is literally build into our economic system. What we can, and should, do is continue to increase the minimum standard of living as our economy and technology increases. We made great strides in doing this, and it basically created the middle class and the strongest economy in the world, but in the last 40 years or so we have stalled in this endeavor and in some instances are actually sliding backwards.

 

[glenn1]

They are run by glenn1 types that demand the poor suffer in greater misery, again and again and again, regardless of the endless labor exploitation that most face, so long as they "learn their lesson for being so poor!"

I think the kids are glad to get any lunch. If you're going to insist that it be the same lunch for "shame" reasons you have a couple options: (1) have the school district eat the costs of those unpaid lunches thus taking funds away for purposes like increasing teacher salaries and buying books, or (2) either send the parent's unpaid debts to collections or begin proceedings to have their salaries garnished.