• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

ah, philosophy

Kaido

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
So I'm grinding through my philosophy textbook, preparing for a quiz, and I come across this passage in the Augustine section:

"Or suppose I am standing before you in class, an eraser in my hand. Suddenly, I wheel about and hurl the eraser at the chaulkboard! You are surprised - no doubt startled. But you don't think any less of me or my character because of it. Then I say, 'Imagine now, imagine that instead of an eraser in my hand it had been a kitten...."

Gave me a giggle 😀
 
Originally posted by: LoKe
...That's a retarded quote. An eraser is lifeless; feelingless. A kitten is not.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar at all with Augustine? I'm in the "Great Chain of Being" section. The quote is meant to illustrate Plotinus' ideas about the order of things 😉
 
Originally posted by: LoKe
...That's a retarded quote. An eraser is lifeless; feelingless. A kitten is not.
Click to expand...

wasn't that the WHOLE purpose of the quote? (directly from his mouth not the one listed above in this sense)
 
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: LoKe
...That's a retarded quote. An eraser is lifeless; feelingless. A kitten is not.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar at all with Augustine? I'm in the "Great Chain of Being" section. The quote is meant to illustrate Plotinus' ideas about the order of things 😉
Click to expand...

I've never followed philosophy, unfortunately, so no, I'm not familiar with him nor his works.

Originally posted by: chambersc
Originally posted by: LoKe
...That's a retarded quote. An eraser is lifeless; feelingless. A kitten is not.
Click to expand...

wasn't that the WHOLE purpose of the quote? (directly from his mouth not the one listed above in this sense)
Click to expand...

I don't really understand what you mean. If he's just stating the obvious, what's the point?
 
Originally posted by: LoKe
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: LoKe
...That's a retarded quote. An eraser is lifeless; feelingless. A kitten is not.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar at all with Augustine? I'm in the "Great Chain of Being" section. The quote is meant to illustrate Plotinus' ideas about the order of things 😉
Click to expand...

I've never followed philosophy, unfortunately, so no, I'm not familiar with him nor his works.
Click to expand...

Me either, I'm not even finished with this chapter 😀 Basically the author is trying to illustrate the supposed order or hierarchy of value. The quote was just so unexpected after 30 pages of normal philosophy...
 
Originally posted by: Legendary
Augustive is weak, in every sense of the word.
Click to expand...

Why do you say that? (keep in mind that I'm not finished with the chapter on Augustine yet 😉)
 
Originally posted by: LoKe
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: LoKe
...That's a retarded quote. An eraser is lifeless; feelingless. A kitten is not.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar at all with Augustine? I'm in the "Great Chain of Being" section. The quote is meant to illustrate Plotinus' ideas about the order of things 😉
Click to expand...

I've never followed philosophy, unfortunately, so no, I'm not familiar with him nor his works.

Originally posted by: chambersc
Originally posted by: LoKe
...That's a retarded quote. An eraser is lifeless; feelingless. A kitten is not.
Click to expand...

wasn't that the WHOLE purpose of the quote? (directly from his mouth not the one listed above in this sense)
Click to expand...

I don't really understand what you mean. If he's just stating the obvious, what's the point?
Click to expand...

Its just context, taken out of context, ironically.
 
Originally posted by: BD2003
Originally posted by: LoKe
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: LoKe
...That's a retarded quote. An eraser is lifeless; feelingless. A kitten is not.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar at all with Augustine? I'm in the "Great Chain of Being" section. The quote is meant to illustrate Plotinus' ideas about the order of things 😉
Click to expand...

I've never followed philosophy, unfortunately, so no, I'm not familiar with him nor his works.

Originally posted by: chambersc
Originally posted by: LoKe
...That's a retarded quote. An eraser is lifeless; feelingless. A kitten is not.
Click to expand...

wasn't that the WHOLE purpose of the quote? (directly from his mouth not the one listed above in this sense)
Click to expand...

I don't really understand what you mean. If he's just stating the obvious, what's the point?
Click to expand...

Its just context, taken out of context, ironically.
Click to expand...

Thank you! Have a :cookie:
 
Imagine if KFC started cooking babies instead of chicken. Would their slogan be "Same great taste! Different moral context!"?
 
Originally posted by: LoKe
Originally posted by: BD2003
Its just context, taken out of context, ironically.
Click to expand...

In other words, it's a waste of time.
Click to expand...

No, in other words, its a funny statement out of an insignificant potion of the book, that is only there to set up the context to understand the main idea, and taking the context of the main argument out of it's own context leaves it as nothing more than a hollow, ironic statement, implying nothing profound whatsoever when standing on it's own.

In general, I've found that people that attempt to understand philosophy, whether or not they actually do understand it in the end, tend to be intelligent.

People who claim they just don't get it, just don't try, but that doesn't necessarily make it too bad, because they're not claiming to know something they they don't.

But people who automatically think "Philosophy is stupid, useless and a waste of time" before even attempting to understand it tend to be, overall, a bunch of narrowminded idiots.
 
Originally posted by: BD2003
No, in other words, its a funny statement out of an insignificant potion of the book, that is only there to set up the context to understand the main idea, and taking the context of the main argument out of it's own context leaves it as nothing more than a hollow, ironic statement, implying nothing profound whatsoever when standing on it's own.

In general, I've found that people that attempt to understand philosophy, whether or not they actually do understand it in the end, tend to be intelligent.

People who claim they just don't get it, just don't try, but that doesn't necessarily make it too bad, because they're not claiming to know something they they don't.

But people who automatically think "Philosophy is stupid, useless and a waste of time" before even attempting to understand it tend to be, overall, a bunch of narrowminded idiots.
Click to expand...

I like to spend my time thinking about things that actually have something to do with how I'm going to live my life. If someone wants to go waste a few grand on an education in a useless subject (i.e. probably won't get you employed) then so be it. But who are you to say that I'm any less intelligent because I don't waste my time on such useless things?
 
Originally posted by: LoKe
Originally posted by: BD2003
No, in other words, its a funny statement out of an insignificant potion of the book, that is only there to set up the context to understand the main idea, and taking the context of the main argument out of it's own context leaves it as nothing more than a hollow, ironic statement, implying nothing profound whatsoever when standing on it's own.

In general, I've found that people that attempt to understand philosophy, whether or not they actually do understand it in the end, tend to be intelligent.

People who claim they just don't get it, just don't try, but that doesn't necessarily make it too bad, because they're not claiming to know something they they don't.

But people who automatically think "Philosophy is stupid, useless and a waste of time" before even attempting to understand it tend to be, overall, a bunch of narrowminded idiots.
Click to expand...

I like to spend my time thinking about things that actually have something to do with how I'm going to live my life. If someone wants to go waste a few grand on an education in a useless subject (i.e. probably won't get you employed) then so be it. But who are you to say that I'm any less intelligent because I don't waste my time on such useless things?
Click to expand...

saying philosophy is a 'useless thing' shows just as much ignorance as if i were to say employment is 'useless'. it's a search for a higher truth, even though the possibility that we'll never be able to obtain it is very real. do you realize how much discipline and focus that takes, to continue searching even though generations upon generations before you have never been able to give you answers or conclusions? that just being able to eliminate untruths and move closer toward an answer (moral or otherwise) is reward enough?

It's that discipline, plus the level of genius it takes to truly express such abstract, incoherent thoughts that draws me to the subject. anyone can consider the meaning of life, moral problems, ethics -- but to be able to present them eloquently and to be able to sway or dissuade another; that's truly a gift.

in essence, philosophy is as essential as mathematics -- just because you yourself find no interest in the subject or have never needed any sort of background at all to 'get by', this doesn't mean that those who have taken on that role in your stead are of no worth.

what would we be like without mathematicians? what would we be like without philosophers?

 
Originally posted by: pclstyle
saying philosophy is a 'useless thing' shows just as much ignorance as if i were to say employment is 'useless'.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'd put paying the bills and providing a good life for a family a little higher than finding out if my glass of water is half empty or half -full of sh!t.

Originally posted by: pclstyle
it's a search for a higher truth, even though the possibility that we'll never be able to obtain it is very real. do you realize how much discipline and focus that takes, to continue searching even though generations upon generations before you have never been able to give you answers or conclusions? that just being able to eliminate untruths and move closer toward an answer (moral or otherwise) is reward enough?
Click to expand...
All you're doing is following along in someone elses steps. What truths are there to discover that aren't already known? I think you're more interested in a psychology teacher, not philosophy.

Originally posted by: pclstyle
It's that discipline, plus the level of genius it takes to truly express such abstract, incoherent thoughts that draws me to the subject.
Click to expand...

Since when does it take genius to express abstract? I can't make up a bunch of random thoughts and sayings and pass it off as philosophy, and I'm no more intelligent than a spiral notebook.

Originally posted by: pclstyle
nyone can consider the meaning of life, moral problems, ethics -- but to be able to present them eloquently and to be able to sway or dissuade another; that's truly a gift.
Click to expand...

Don't try to lecture me on morals and ethics. Those things are personal, no one is going to tell me what I should think is right and wrong. As for the meaning of life; it's not a profound thing: we're here to live and die, to reproduce and overpopulate the planet.


Originally posted by: pclstyle
in essence, philosophy is as essential as mathematics -- just because you yourself find no interest in the subject or have never needed any sort of background at all to 'get by', this doesn't mean that those who have taken on that role in your stead are of no worth.
Click to expand...
I don't have any interest in the sciences either, but I still respect the subject. They actually help people, what with medicines and exploration. They provide real truths about things that actually matter.

Originally posted by: pclstyle
what would we be like without mathematicians? what would we be like without philosophers?
Click to expand...
That's possibly one of the worst comparisons, and if you can't see that then you've swallowed the load your teacher show at you.

 
Originally posted by: LoKe

cut out nested quotes, thread is getting long
Click to expand...


so wrong, i don't even know where to start. btw, not a philosophy major OR minor, i'm going to med school in the fall.

i'll avoid getting offensive and personal for now at least, but it seems you took that route asap, heh.


didn't want to do the whole break-down thing, but..

1) I can't make up a bunch of random thoughts and sayings and pass it off as philosophy, and I'm no more intelligent than a spiral notebook.

2) Those things are personal, no one is going to tell me what I should think is right and wrong.

3) What truths are there to discover that aren't already known?
Click to expand...

wow.

1) try reading a little bit, please. what you got of quotations.com and what you gleaned from an obvious lack of knowledge regarding the subject -- really doesn't do the topic justice. i'm doing you a favor by taking what you've said seriously, regardless.

2) that's what hitler probably thought, as well as any number of serial killers.

3) lol


the point is, philosophy actually has a lot more influence in your everyday life than you think. sure it won't teach you how to mow the lawn, or code programs, or wire circuitry, but that doesn't diminish it's value. women's rights, humanitarian rights, basic amendments and laws to protect civilians and the environment -- these are all philosophical issues. not everything is relative, or can be determined purely by perspective. there are indeed truths out there worth searching for.

you can lash back and say something like kids working in sweatshops should be banned out of common sense, but where would the evidence for such a statement come from? someone else could just as easily fire back and say you're talking out of your ass. philosophy helps provide a moral ground from which to build a stance, and from there you can MORE convincingly, MORE accurately defend your moral position. Why do cultures and entire societies still commit actions that we see as immoral and atrocious? it's because in their eyes, what they're doing is perfectly acceptable and free of blame. if someone can really fight for a cause because they know beyond a doubt (i.e. can PROVE) that what they're standing for is correct, then who are you to call them useless?


basically, it breaks down to this. you're right, philosophy may never enter the little biosphere you call your life, and you may very well be the better for it. but to say the world would be a better place without it? that's just idiocy, at it's very basest.



lol, swallowing what my teacher threw at me - cute.



 
Originally posted by: pclstyle
i'll avoid getting offensive and personal for now at least, but it seems you took that route asap, heh.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't. In a real debate, you pull out everything you've got. The idea is to win, and make your opponent know you've won. I'm not here to change your opinon, but rather to give mine. I respect you for believing in something, and being able to agrue for it, but that doesn't mean I'll submit.

Originally posted by: pclstyle
the point is, philosophy actually has a lot more influence in your everyday life than you think. sure it won't teach you how to mow the lawn, or code programs, or wire circuitry, but that doesn't diminish it's value. women's rights, humanitarian rights, basic amendments and laws to protect civilians and the environment -- these are all philosophical issues. not everything is relative, or can be determined purely by perspective. there are indeed truths out there worth searching for.
Click to expand...

I should have been more clear. Philosophy as a subject is a waste of time. The state of mind of philosophy is a respectable issue, but if you're going to let it take over your life, then in my opinion, you're wasting valuable time.

Originally posted by: pclstyle
you can come back and say that kids working in sweatshops should be banned out of common sense, but where would the evidence for such a statement come from? someone else could just as easily fire back and say you're talking out of your ass. philosophy helps provide a moral ground from which to build a stance, and from there you can MORE convincingly, MORE accurately defend your moral position.
Click to expand...

Without having taken a philosophy class, I can already see that child-labour is wrong. It doesn't take an open-minded genius to fighre that one out. If you're doing the work, you should be getting paid for it and it should be by choice.

Originally posted by: pclstyle
Why do cultures and entire societies still commit actions that we see as immoral and atrocious? it's because in their eyes, what they're doing is perfectly acceptable and free of blame. if someone can really fight for a cause because they know beyond a doubt (i.e. can PROVE) that what they're standing for is correct, then who are you to call them useless?
Click to expand...

If you could provide some examples, I could probably provide some answers. However, I'll give a general reason: ancestry. Their ancestry has taught them to do such things, but civility, not philosophy, has taught us that it's wrong.


Originally posted by: pclstyle
basically, it breaks down to this. you're right, philosophy may never enter the little biosphere you call your life, and you may very well be the better for it. but to say the world would be a better place? that's just idiocy, at it's very basest.
Click to expand...

Call me an idiot if you want, but I at least hope you can realize that a large portion of what they teach you in philosophy class is just filler. The original quote is enough to show you that. Context out of context.

1) try reading a little bit, please. what you got of quotations.com and what you gleaned from an obvious lack of knowledge regarding the subject -- really doesn't do the topic justice. i'm doing you a favor by taking what you've said seriously, regardless.
Click to expand...
I probably read more than you do. I've cleared maybe ~5 full-length books this week, not to mention it's exam period aswell.

2) that's what hitler probably thought, as well as any number of serial killers.
Click to expand...
I thought you said you were in med school. Hitler and serial killers fell off the sane-wagon a few miles down the road.

3) lol
Click to expand...

I wasn't clear on that one, but I can't seem to explain it to you.
 
Originally posted by: LoKe
cut again
Click to expand...


you're right, there is indeed a lot filler. also a lot of unnecessarily arrogant individuals who think having a little required-reading nietzche, a little dostoyevsky under their belt gives them them to right to be absolutely self-righteous and on some higher, ethereal plane of learning. this is NOT true, and people like that deserve to be shot. people who lock on to one mode of thinking and refuse to even consider the POSSIBILITY that they could be wrong, also fall into this category.

the child-labor example was intended to show that there are some things that we, through our westernized (some might call it self-righteous, heavily judgemental) eyes, can agree are absolutely absurd. both you and i can see that. yet it's still practiced, as are any number of what we declare to be crimes aganist humanity. i don't doubt that had you and i grown up on a different part of the planet, in a different environment, with different values, we would be fighting just as zealously to defend forced abortions, even genocide. this isn't to say that here in the states we have divine interpretation of the world, we make just as many mistakes as anyone else. issues like racism, sexism, homophobia ? we still, and will continue to suffer from. is it because people are uneducated? maybe, and that's where philosophy comes into play ? to help break down these moral truths (what you and i take for granted simply because we were raised that way), and make them interpretable by even the most prejudiced of transgressors.

as for ancestry, that is correct. but it's those generations upon generations of misinformed people that produce a philosophy, regardless of how immoral or 'wrong', for their descendants to live by. and the only way to sway someone from one train of thought is to provide them with a more viable, more convincing one. and that's what modern philosophers do (well, at least the ones that don't get too caught up in the half full/half empty debate).


i don't know, we could go on forever about this. regardless, i get your drift ? i hope you catch mine.



 
Originally posted by: LoKe
Originally posted by: pclstyle
i'll avoid getting offensive and personal for now at least, but it seems you took that route asap, heh.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't. In a real debate, you pull out everything you've got. The idea is to win, and make your opponent know you've won. I'm not here to change your opinon, but rather to give mine. I respect you for believing in something, and being able to agrue for it, but that doesn't mean I'll submit.

Originally posted by: pclstyle
the point is, philosophy actually has a lot more influence in your everyday life than you think. sure it won't teach you how to mow the lawn, or code programs, or wire circuitry, but that doesn't diminish it's value. women's rights, humanitarian rights, basic amendments and laws to protect civilians and the environment -- these are all philosophical issues. not everything is relative, or can be determined purely by perspective. there are indeed truths out there worth searching for.
Click to expand...

I should have been more clear. Philosophy as a subject is a waste of time. The state of mind of philosophy is a respectable issue, but if you're going to let it take over your life, then in my opinion, you're wasting valuable time.

Originally posted by: pclstyle
you can come back and say that kids working in sweatshops should be banned out of common sense, but where would the evidence for such a statement come from? someone else could just as easily fire back and say you're talking out of your ass. philosophy helps provide a moral ground from which to build a stance, and from there you can MORE convincingly, MORE accurately defend your moral position.
Click to expand...

Without having taken a philosophy class, I can already see that child-labour is wrong. It doesn't take an open-minded genius to fighre that one out. If you're doing the work, you should be getting paid for it and it should be by choice.

Originally posted by: pclstyle
Why do cultures and entire societies still commit actions that we see as immoral and atrocious? it's because in their eyes, what they're doing is perfectly acceptable and free of blame. if someone can really fight for a cause because they know beyond a doubt (i.e. can PROVE) that what they're standing for is correct, then who are you to call them useless?
Click to expand...

If you could provide some examples, I could probably provide some answers. However, I'll give a general reason: ancestry. Their ancestry has taught them to do such things, but civility, not philosophy, has taught us that it's wrong.


Originally posted by: pclstyle
basically, it breaks down to this. you're right, philosophy may never enter the little biosphere you call your life, and you may very well be the better for it. but to say the world would be a better place? that's just idiocy, at it's very basest.
Click to expand...

Call me an idiot if you want, but I at least hope you can realize that a large portion of what they teach you in philosophy class is just filler. The original quote is enough to show you that. Context out of context.

1) try reading a little bit, please. what you got of quotations.com and what you gleaned from an obvious lack of knowledge regarding the subject -- really doesn't do the topic justice. i'm doing you a favor by taking what you've said seriously, regardless.
Click to expand...
I probably read more than you do. I've cleared maybe ~5 full-length books this week, not to mention it's exam period aswell.

2) that's what hitler probably thought, as well as any number of serial killers.
Click to expand...
I thought you said you were in med school. Hitler and serial killers fell off the sane-wagon a few miles down the road.

3) lol
Click to expand...

I wasn't clear on that one, but I can't seem to explain it to you.
Click to expand...

Without reading most of it, which I can probably do later, I can already tell you miss the point. Philosophy is not a collection of truths, its a collection of possible paths to truth that almost invariably end without the actual truth. But its the path, and understanding you gain along the road, that matter, and it has very little to do with *philosophy class*, which is indeed something that will most likely lead to nothing but unemployment. Taking a few classes does not make you an expert in anything. Believe it or not, philosophy exists and has day to day validity outside of a university.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top