AGP X1950PRO 512 & P4 Bottlenecks - Questions Answered

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: apoppin
what is your memory divider set to?
is that 1:1?

i get 7537 in 3DMark05 with a NW 2.80c at 2.8 Ghz [stock] ... you get 6458 ...
i think your FSB is way low when you underclock ... that 's very likely it ...

BUT ...

i get 8075 @ 3.25 Ghz ... you get 7781 @ 3.6 Ghz !
:Q


huh?!?


using Cats 7.1 with CCC
... Abit IC7 ... 2x256 OCZ and 2x256 Mushkin PC3500[+]
Sapphire x1950p/512M ... OCZ 850w 4 rails @18a/66a total/Win2K


oh yeah ... my OCZ is *quieter* than my ThermalTake 480w which it replaced ... and i thought TT was already quiet


:heart:

is that all, I get higher than that with my A64 3000+ running at stock...but wait didn't you say that an overclocked P4 could beat a stock A64 3000+? :roll:


puts on flame suit and runs like a muthafvcker...

it *can*

how much better is your A-64 3000? ... identical to my rig *except* for the CPU? what do you get in '05 at 'stock'? We DID compare P4/A64 benchs ... years ago.
--i notice you have a RAID setup and your A64 IS o/c'd

ANYWAY ... comparing apples to apples, intel to intel ...

there is NO WAY the OP's Prescott should lose to my NW at "our" clock rates


something else, perhaps?


weren't there some *complaints* about 7.2 and CCC

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

edit2: nice work OP. I know this took some time. Respect to anyone who does benches, posts screenies, makes how-tos etc... Your contributions are appreciated.

Thanks !

I swear the formatting took longer than the benchmarking

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Paratus

Originally posted by: nitromullet

edit2: nice work OP. I know this took some time. Respect to anyone who does benches, posts screenies, makes how-tos etc... Your contributions are appreciated.

Thanks !

I swear the formatting took longer than the benchmarking

very nice!

at ANY rate, my limited benchs with my rig tends to support yours

a P4 2.8c at stock is somewhat CPU-limited ... at 3.2+Ghz, less so
a P4 3.2E at stock is somewhat CPU-limited ... at 3.6Ghz, less so



i wish could get mine up to 3.8Ghz like some of the really *awesome* NW o/cers ... then Stumps A64 would feel the 'heat'

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: apoppin
what is your memory divider set to?
is that 1:1?

i get 7537 in 3DMark05 with a NW 2.80c at 2.8 Ghz [stock] ... you get 6458 ...
i think your FSB is way low when you underclock ... that 's very likely it ...

BUT ...

i get 8075 @ 3.25 Ghz ... you get 7781 @ 3.6 Ghz !
:Q


huh?!?


using Cats 7.1 with CCC
... Abit IC7 ... 2x256 OCZ and 2x256 Mushkin PC3500[+]
Sapphire x1950p/512M ... OCZ 850w 4 rails @18a/66a total/Win2K


oh yeah ... my OCZ is *quieter* than my ThermalTake 480w which it replaced ... and i thought TT was already quiet


:heart:

is that all, I get higher than that with my A64 3000+ running at stock...but wait didn't you say that an overclocked P4 could beat a stock A64 3000+? :roll:


puts on flame suit and runs like a muthafvcker...

it *can*

how much better is your A-64 3000? ... identical to my rig *except* for the CPU? what do you get in '05 at 'stock'? We DID compare P4/A64 benchs ... years ago.
--i notice you have a RAID setup and your A64 IS o/c'd

ANYWAY ... comparing apples to apples, intel to intel ...

there is NO WAY the OP's Prescott should lose to my NW at "our" clock rates


something else, perhaps?


weren't there some *complaints* about 7.2 and CCC

What speed was your RAM at 3.2?

Maybe 3dmark likes bandwith.

BTW just installed Oblivion. That game is sweet!

 

[apoppin]

i have to look ...
... it's 1:1 ... at the upper limit of my system RAM

maybe it's the Cats ... at any rate there isn't that much difference ... i have a 500Mhz OC and yours is 400Mhz
but i thought yours would have been the same or higher

and definitely use the "texture packs" for Oblivion ... that is ONE game where the x1950p kicks ass over the 7800GS OC
:thumbsup:

and ArchAngel777 , my OCZ 850w is *quiet* ... really [really] quiet
sorry to *disappoint* you

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i have to look ...
... it's 1:1 ... at the upper limit of my system RAM

maybe it's the Cats ... at any rate there isn't that much difference ... i have a 500Mhz OC and yours is 400Mhz
but i thought yours would have been the same or higher

and definitely use the "texture packs" for Oblivion ... that is ONE game where the x1950p kicks ass over the 7800GS OC
:thumbsup:

and ArchAngel777 , my OCZ 850w is *quiet* ... really [really] quiet
sorry to *disappoint* you

Oh, I am not dissapointed, I just didn't get a free laugh. But...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i have to look ...
... it's 1:1 ... at the upper limit of my system RAM

maybe it's the Cats ... at any rate there isn't that much difference ... i have a 500Mhz OC and yours is 400Mhz
but i thought yours would have been the same or higher

and definitely use the "texture packs" for Oblivion ... that is ONE game where the x1950p kicks ass over the 7800GS OC
:thumbsup:

and ArchAngel777 , my OCZ 850w is *quiet* ... really [really] quiet
sorry to *disappoint* you

Oh, I am not dissapointed, I just didn't get a free laugh. But...

you are sadistic

:laugh:

have one *on me* anyway ... i spent over $250 to "upgrade" my Videocard ... another $10 to ship it back ... $210 for a 7800 GS and $10 to ship it back ... that same $210 credit for a 850w PS ... about $500

i could have had a V8 :Q
[pciE for the same G-D money]

:roll:




:lips:

*now* you can laugh
:laugh:

yuk yuk yuk


at the *least* i DO have a *kickass* dead silent PS ... for NEXT year

 

[Paratus]

All 1+Gb of Quarls Texture pack 1.3 are downloaded. Now I just need to figure out how to install it.

 

[apoppin]

check the readme

 

[Munky]

Nice work. Somehow, though, I have a feeling this thread might get to 20+ pages...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: munky
Nice work. Somehow, though, I have a feeling this thread might get to 20+ pages...

i dunno, what are the nvidia fanboys gonna say about it?
:lips:

nvidia's "top" AGP card doesn't bottleneck a P4
:evil:

no *controversy*

and i don't feel the need to replicate the OP's tests ... despite any minor variances dues to drivers, configuration, defrag, whatever - my results would support his ...
--as i already observed

 

[postmortemIA]

Originally posted by: apoppin
what is your memory divider set to?
is that 1:1?

i get 7537 in 3DMark05 with a NW 2.80c at 2.8 Ghz [stock] ... you get 6458 ...
i think your FSB is way low when you underclock ... that 's very likely it ...

BUT ...

i get 8075 @ 3.25 Ghz ... you get 7781 @ 3.6 Ghz !
:Q


huh?!?


using Cats 7.1 with CCC
... Abit IC7 ... 2x256 OCZ and 2x256 Mushkin PC3500[+]
Sapphire x1950p/512M ... OCZ 850w 4 rails @18a/66a total/Win2K


oh yeah ... my OCZ is *quieter* than my ThermalTake 480w which it replaced ... and i thought TT was already quiet


:heart:

??? Good score, I was getting 6800 with P4 3.2GHz Northy on the same board.

But then, Athlon 64 that I have now gives 8500.

 

[apoppin]

those P4 *need* to be O/C'd

a 5 Ghz P4 will *beat* conroe
[barely ... but it's 'fun']

it's ALL about FSB with intel CPUs

if you O/C'd that 3.2 Northy to 3.6 you'd have beat my score handily
*however* ... not sure why you'd get 6800 with a stock 3.2 P4 while i am getting 7500 with a stock 2.8
[wasn't your first x1950p defective right away or am i thinking of someone else?
]

that said, once you get a 800FSB P4 ~3Ghz, the Video Card becomes much more important than the CPU
[more-or-less]

what's your A64 ? is it stock?

 

[postmortemIA]

I have exact same Sapphire 512M, and 1.5GB of PC-3200 at 3-3-3-8 with PAT off. Do you know if your PAT is off or on? What is your FSB and timings at 3.25GHz?

 

[apoppin]

i forgot the FSB ... the 2.80c @ 3.248Ghz with dividers at 5:4, is 224 or 225 i think ... at 1:1, i increase the RAM voltage quite a bit to keep it stable ... it is really straining

the CPU is *stuck* at 3.31Ghz "max" [without a 'ridiculous voltage boost] and i now have to up the voltage just to keep it there ... it's aging ... so i am now at 3.2 or 3.25Ghz which is now at the default Vcore and *rock stable*

1012 MB of Mushkin/OCZ 4x256 PC-3500 CAS 2-3-3-7 in D.C.

PATty's "off" ... she isn't stable and mucking about in the BIOS timings brings minimal performance increases

 

[evolucion8]

Seems then that my 3.4 Northwood has power left to run with the X1950PRO with no problems, I have PAT activated and it doesn't give me any problems at all and the performance gains are mostly in latency times and write speed. Probably it will be a bottleneck with the X1950XT AGP, but that is the one I want!! The X1950PRO offers a good improvements in performance over my X800XT PE but is not something great, pointless for me to buy a DX10 for now cause for the time that the games are released better and more power efficient cards will be there by then. There's at least minimum 2 years of life left for DX9.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: evolucion8
Seems then that my 3.4 Northwood has power left to run with the X1950PRO with no problems, I have PAT activated and it doesn't give me any problems at all and the performance gains are mostly in latency times and write speed. Probably it will be a bottleneck with the X1950XT AGP, but that is the one I want!! The X1950PRO offers a good improvements in performance over my X800XT PE but is not something great, pointless for me to buy a DX10 for now cause for the time that the games are released better and more power efficient cards will be there by then. There's at least minimum 2 years of life left for DX9.

the differences with PAT are in our respective MBs ... Abit's stock timings are pretty aggressive, anyway, and i can get more of a RAM O/C w/out messing with PAT

--and my *budget* but good RAM

as someone who *upgraded* from a x850xt via a torturous route with a RMA and a "replacement" 7800 OC... unless you PS is up to it, forget it ... unless you are just gonna *upgrade anyway* ... like i was "forced" to with an 850watter - for next year's upgrade and beyond also

EDIT i see your PS is fine

decent upgrade

you should have bought my x1950p




and O/C your NW ... it is *asleep* right now
:Q

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: apoppin
what is your memory divider set to?
is that 1:1?

i get 7537 in 3DMark05 with a NW 2.80c at 2.8 Ghz [stock] ... you get 6458 ...
i think your FSB is way low when you underclock ... that 's very likely it ...

BUT ...

i get 8075 @ 3.25 Ghz ... you get 7781 @ 3.6 Ghz !
:Q


huh?!?


using Cats 7.1 with CCC
... Abit IC7 ... 2x256 OCZ and 2x256 Mushkin PC3500[+]
Sapphire x1950p/512M ... OCZ 850w 4 rails @18a/66a total/Win2K


oh yeah ... my OCZ is *quieter* than my ThermalTake 480w which it replaced ... and i thought TT was already quiet


:heart:

is that all, I get higher than that with my A64 3000+ running at stock...but wait didn't you say that an overclocked P4 could beat a stock A64 3000+? :roll:


puts on flame suit and runs like a muthafvcker...

it *can*

how much better is your A-64 3000? ... identical to my rig *except* for the CPU? what do you get in '05 at 'stock'? We DID compare P4/A64 benchs ... years ago.
--i notice you have a RAID setup and your A64 IS o/c'd

ANYWAY ... comparing apples to apples, intel to intel ...

there is NO WAY the OP's Prescott should lose to my NW at "our" clock rates


something else, perhaps?


weren't there some *complaints* about 7.2 and CCC

well actually on a hardware comparision your rig should have the advantage...my A64 is only a skt 754, so it has only a single DDR400 memory channel, so I'm limited to only 3200mb/s worth of bandwidth.

My Raid setup does very little in benchmarks other than HDtach so it wouldn't be a factor in any comparision.

so really we could have an apples to apples comparision...my A64 is only supposed to be rated against a 3ghz P4...

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: evolucion8
Seems then that my 3.4 Northwood has power left to run with the X1950PRO with no problems, I have PAT activated and it doesn't give me any problems at all and the performance gains are mostly in latency times and write speed. Probably it will be a bottleneck with the X1950XT AGP, but that is the one I want!! The X1950PRO offers a good improvements in performance over my X800XT PE but is not something great, pointless for me to buy a DX10 for now cause for the time that the games are released better and more power efficient cards will be there by then. There's at least minimum 2 years of life left for DX9.

the differences with PAT are in our respective MBs ... Abit's stock timings are pretty aggressive, anyway, and i can get more of a RAM O/C w/out messing with PAT

--and my *budget* but good RAM

as someone who *upgraded* from a x850xt via a torturous route with a RMA and a "replacement" 7800 OC... unless you PS is up to it, forget it ... unless you are just gonna *upgrade anyway* ... like i was "forced" to with an 850watter - for next year's upgrade and beyond also

EDIT i see your PS is fine

decent upgrade

you should have bought my x1950p




and O/C your NW ... it is *asleep* right now
:Q

Yeah, I will overclock it once I get DDR 500 2GB memory sticks, I'm putting an eye on the GeCube X1950XT card AGP, otherwise, the HIS IceQ X1950 which comes with a core overclocked from 575 to 620MHz, and the RAM from 1375 to 1480, not sure about the extra RAM, i have seen many people complianing about the 512MB coming with problems, but the 256MB seems more reliable. After all I'm not a 1600x1200 gamer, My favorite resolution to play is at 1280x1024, currently I'm playing at 1024x768 due to CRT 60Hz limitation at 1280x1024, but is okay, I always crank up the anti aliasing like I'm doing now with F.E.A.R. V.1.08 at 4x FSAA nice!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: apoppin
what is your memory divider set to?
is that 1:1?

i get 7537 in 3DMark05 with a NW 2.80c at 2.8 Ghz [stock] ... you get 6458 ...
i think your FSB is way low when you underclock ... that 's very likely it ...

BUT ...

i get 8075 @ 3.25 Ghz ... you get 7781 @ 3.6 Ghz !
:Q


huh?!?


using Cats 7.1 with CCC
... Abit IC7 ... 2x256 OCZ and 2x256 Mushkin PC3500[+]
Sapphire x1950p/512M ... OCZ 850w 4 rails @18a/66a total/Win2K


oh yeah ... my OCZ is *quieter* than my ThermalTake 480w which it replaced ... and i thought TT was already quiet


:heart:

is that all, I get higher than that with my A64 3000+ running at stock...but wait didn't you say that an overclocked P4 could beat a stock A64 3000+? :roll:


puts on flame suit and runs like a muthafvcker...

it *can*

how much better is your A-64 3000? ... identical to my rig *except* for the CPU? what do you get in '05 at 'stock'? We DID compare P4/A64 benchs ... years ago.
--i notice you have a RAID setup and your A64 IS o/c'd

ANYWAY ... comparing apples to apples, intel to intel ...

there is NO WAY the OP's Prescott should lose to my NW at "our" clock rates


something else, perhaps?


weren't there some *complaints* about 7.2 and CCC

well actually on a hardware comparision your rig should have the advantage...my A64 is only a skt 754, so it has only a single DDR400 memory channel, so I'm limited to only 3200mb/s worth of bandwidth.

My Raid setup does very little in benchmarks other than HDtach so it wouldn't be a factor in any comparision.

so really we could have an apples to apples comparision...my A64 is only supposed to be rated against a 3ghz P4...

well don't keep me in suspenders

*how much* faster is your *stock* A64-3000+ than my OC'd P4 @3.25Ghz in playing 3DMark05?

 

[Stumps]

My 3DMark05 Score, absolutly no overclocking at all

specs

A64 3000+@stock (2000mhz)
GA-K8NS PRO Nforce 3 250
1GB DDR400 7-2-2-2.5 2T
Sapphire X1950Pro AGP 512mb@Stock
Windows XP Professional SP2
ATI Catalyst 7.2 with CP
Nvidia Nforce 5.11

now remember Apoppin I haven't done any overclocking to get this score, and I am comparing it to everybodies OC'd P4's

let the battle of the E-peenie's begin

 

[apoppin]

OMFGD

not 45 more points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:Q

i am *humbled* ... your're right a stock A64 3000+ is vastly superior to an average O/C'd 2.80c P4
:shocked:

AMAZING PROOF .....

. . . maybe i should try again at 3.31Ghz
:roll:

nice

:laugh:

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: apoppin
OMFGD

not 45 more points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:Q

i am *humbled* ... your're right a stock A64 3000+ is vastly superior to an average O/C'd 2.80c P4
:shocked:

AMAZING PROOF .....

. . . maybe i should try again at 3.31Ghz
:roll:

nice

:laugh:

you seem to forget....my A64 is ONLY supposed to be rated against a 800mhz FSB 3.0ghz P4....but then again that score is only 25 points higher than my 3.0ghz Northwood OC'd to 3.4ghz.


I think AMD was way off with their PR rating.

 

[apoppin]

i didn't forget ... i *knew* an O/C'd 2.80c is roughly equivalent *in games* to a stock a64 3000+ ... that's what the +plus+ is about

that's what i *told* everyone here and in every forum ... for the past 4 years

thanks for *confirming*

and a P4 has *other* advantages over the a64 series ... outside 'games'

don't forget ... all the Athlon XPs were OVERrated in comparison to the P4 ... and XP3200+ is slower than a stock P4 3.0Ghz

AMD just 'overcorrected' their PR

they have a little trouble with 'balance'

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i didn't forget ... i *knew* an O/C'd 2.80c is roughly equivalent *in games* to a stock a64 3000+ ... that's what the +plus+ is about

that's what i *told* everyone here and in every forum ... for the past 4 years

thanks for *confirming*

and a P4 has *other* advantages over the a64 series ... outside 'games'

don't forget ... all the Athlon XPs were OVERrated in comparison to the P4 ... and XP3200+ is slower than a stock P4 3.0Ghz

AMD just 'overcorrected' their PR

they have a little trouble with 'balance'

I could never figure that one out...my old A64 3000+ and NF2 Ultra combo was always a little bit faster than my 3.0GHz Northwood at stock speeds...well it felt like it anyway.

Even in benchmarks it would always score that tiny bit higher

Maybe my AXP was just well setup, I don't know, but then again it was faster than many of my friends 3200+...except for the lucky bastard who had the rare "Williams" AXP 3200+...a factory 2.33ghz (166x14, 1.65v) beast, that thing was fast.