Afghan Militants Intrude Pakistan and kill 27 troop

[Jaskalas]

Leave Afghanistan and let Pakistan have it. Problem solved.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Actually, you're playing around with words. Your original contention was that Pakistan and the ISI created the Taliban. Your specific words were "you guys created the monster" referring to TGB. This is now, even by your own admission, false.

You're playing with semantics. "Created the monster" is a figure of speech and you know it (I think). Obviously Mullah Omar founded them but with the material and logistical support of Pakistan. That is my point -- Pakistan continued to prop them up even as the international community shunned the Taliban and US support was gone. You can weave and dodge and try to play word games, but that's a fact.

As to your current claim of Pakistan having a "huge hand" in creating the Taliban, I can certainly agree, as all the military hardware paid for by my tax dollars went through Pakistan into the hands of the Afghan Mujahideen, the training by our military was done in Pakistan, and contacts and liasons were made through the Pakistan military. So yes, Pakistan certainly had a huge hand in creating the Taliban, only as much as we did.

The Taliban and Mujahideen are not the same. You do understand that, right? The Taliban was but one faction of the Mujahideen.

Why are we even arguing this again? The point made was that Pakistan was pulling strings in Afghanistan to get their way for many, many years while the Taliban was in power. Do you dispute this?

 

[OCGuy]

Leave Afghanistan and let Pakistan have it. Problem solved.

Once the Full Exchange happens between India and Pakistan, Afghanistan will be toast as well...hopefully it isnt enough for real Nuclear Winter so the rest of us live, but we can't be sure..

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Leave Afghanistan and let Pakistan have it. Problem solved.

I like this solution.

 

[routan]

You're playing with semantics. "Created the monster" is a figure of speech and you know it (I think). Obviously Mullah Omar founded them but with the material and logistical support of Pakistan. That is my point -- Pakistan continued to prop them up even as the international community shunned the Taliban and US support was gone. You can weave and dodge and try to play word games, but that's a fact.



The Taliban and Mujahideen are not the same. You do understand that, right? The Taliban was but one faction of the Mujahideen.

Why are we even arguing this again? The point made was that Pakistan was pulling strings in Afghanistan to get their way for many, many years while the Taliban was in power. Do you dispute this?

Again, you proved what I said earlier. Pakistan certainly had a huge hand in creating the Taliban directly, only as much as we did indirectly.

I dont think you would be so clueless as to argue that with a war raging next to your border, a country would not pick sides to support. We do this all the time, in far off nations.

You just further my original point that it was our government which furnished the Afghan Mujahideen with the training and weapons that ultimately bred the Taliban.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Again, you proved what I said earlier. Pakistan certainly had a huge hand in creating the Taliban directly, only as much as we did indirectly.

The Taliban didn't exist when we trained the mujahideen. Pakistan knowingly aided and supported a group that called itself the Taliban. HUGE difference -- note the intent. In all likelihood, the Taliban would not have existed without the aid of Pakistan. You can't say with certainty the impact the US had on the formation of the Taliban ("indirectly" is very imprecise) but you can say with certainty that Pakistan directly aided them. If your whole argument is that we gave the mujahideen weapons and some of those weapons were later used by the Taliban and that constitutes "indirect" support, that's pretty shaky reasoning.

Your line of reasoning is akin to saying that a former Marine sniper who goes on a shooting rampage at a mall was the creation of the government because they trained him. That doesn't make sense. Likewise, the US government, while training the mujahideen, certainly did not tell a group of them to go form a radical Islamic movement and take over Afghanistan. What the eventual members of the Taliban did with their training was THEIR perogative and responsibility and in this case, used it for evil.

I dont think you would be so clueless as to argue that with a war raging next to your border, a country would not pick sides to support. We do this all the time, in far off nations.

I do understand picking sides and don't begrudge Pakistan for that. Why did they pick the Taliban? And why not acknowledge that it was a mistake and take corrective action instead of blaming others?

You just further my original point that it was our government which furnished the Afghan Mujahideen with the training and weapons that ultimately bred the Taliban.

I didn't further your point. I've never denied that the US government supplied the mujahideen with weapons. Your analysis is what I have an issue with and am contesting.

And while it isn't a popular thing to say, I actually DO understand what TGB is saying. I just don't know what else we could've done with regard to OBL.

EDIT: I just saw a blurb on MSNBC about the US investigating China for hacking attempts on Google. So, since China likely uses American-supplied computer components, does that mean the US "created" their hackers?

 

[Zebo]

Actually Taliban created themselves. You had a bunch of jihadis all in one place after soviets left, from all over, funded by Saudi, US and other allied nations/donors who said we'll just make a fundi state here now. Since then Pakistan took up the mantle for influence in region.

 

[Zebo]

I like this solution.

Nah.. bloodbath and it goes back to worse than pre 911. To late we broke it an must fix it. Plus we disarmed only resistance to these crazies, NA. If we were smart we would have done this whole thing on the down low when we had sympathy, kill off AQ with bribes, hit squads & so forth, and leave them be.

 

[RabidMongoose]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/180613/upper-dir-militants-attack-border-check-post-killing-seven/

This is unacceptable! While the USA cries about our border regions being restive it is the Afghan side, controlled by the Americans that has caused one of the last single largest skirmish for years. Shouldn't the Americans have cleared Afghanistan of these terrorists in their almost 10 year old war? Does this give us the right to carry out operations inside Afghanistan as we please? How could the CIA not detect such a large movement of militants under their nose? complicity or incompetence?

I don't think that Pakistan can do anything, mainly because they've been bought by the US. It came at a cheap price, too.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Nah.. bloodbath and it goes back to worse than pre 911. To late we broke it an must fix it. Plus we disarmed only resistance to these crazies, NA. If we were smart we would have done this whole thing on the down low when we had sympathy, kill off AQ with bribes, hit squads & so forth, and leave them be.

I don't know that we can fix it at this point.

 

[Jhhnn]

Chumps. The Green Bean baited and mocked the usual mowrons by talking about US and Afghan control of the border area the same way we vilify them for failing to do the same thing.

And what he got was just a mindless USA! USA! USA! chant, which proves his point entirely.

Look at yourselves, gentlemen, to see the face of stark raving denial.

 

[werepossum]

From your link

"The militants had arrived in a pre-dawn operation on Wednesday dressed in military uniforms and killed one policeman."

I'm sure you would get upset if the US/CIA directed attacks on people in military uniforms. I would think it would be difficult at best to tell the difference between a Pakistani and an Afghani wearing the same uniform.

Nah, it's easy. The Pakistani is the one whose rifle needs to be cleaned.

 

[werepossum]

Again, you proved what I said earlier. Pakistan certainly had a huge hand in creating the Taliban directly, only as much as we did indirectly.

I dont think you would be so clueless as to argue that with a war raging next to your border, a country would not pick sides to support. We do this all the time, in far off nations.

You just further my original point that it was our government which furnished the Afghan Mujahideen with the training and weapons that ultimately bred the Taliban.

Thanks for pointing out that Muslims cannot be trusted and that accordingly we should allow them to be enslaved without even attempting to help them.

That WAS your point, right?

 

[The Green Bean]

Hard to believe you are blaming the CIA, the United States military, and everybody else for this failure in security within your country. Why is it the CIA's job to detect large amount of militants that are about to attack a city within your borders?

That's like saying: You're blaming Alqaeeda, the Taliban and eveybody for the security failure in your country (9/11). Why couldn't you detect a large number of planes that crashed into your cities?

 

[The Green Bean]

Chumps. The Green Bean baited and mocked the usual mowrons by talking about US and Afghan control of the border area the same way we vilify them for failing to do the same thing.

And what he got was just a mindless USA! USA! USA! chant, which proves his point entirely.

Look at yourselves, gentlemen, to see the face of stark raving denial.

These were NOT local militants. They came from across the border and numbered 1000. If the Afghans, led by the Americans did not warn us about them, it was a failure on their part. How can you not detect 1000 armed people roaming around?

 

[The Green Bean]

Militants were driven out of Afghanistan and were able to take shelter in Pakistan.

You claimed that Pakistan is to large and wild to control the border. So the Pakistan let them be.

Now it seems that you complain about attacks from those that you gave shelter.

These militants are attacking from Afghanistan. The military says it's because of rumours that they are going to carry out an operation in north Wazirisitan. I guess this attack rules that out. The Americans need to clean their own backyard before telling us to carry out an operation.

 

[The Green Bean]

No, you've clearly been owned yet again. The taliban was formed with tbe backing of pakistan. No need to try and twist words to pretend you didn't just get owned. Sorry.

So what? Osama bin Laden was transported to Afghanistan in a CIA charter plane. Does that mean that the CIA created OBL and therefore it was responsible for 9/11? Pakistan had other plans for the Taliban, just like the CIA had for OBL. I can't believe how dumb some people on these forums are. I guess it's the poison Fox has been feeding you for the last 10 years that you actually start believing the most idiotic things out there.

 

[busydude]

Why couldn't you detect a large number of planes that crashed into your cities?

This is the dumbest shit I have ever read.. In a long time.

 

[guyver01]

Meh... 27 dead terrorists... who cares?

You guys should be more concerned with your spider infestations...

 

[werepossum]

This is the dumbest shit I have ever read.. In a long time.

Here we have four planes approaching three widely separated unguarded civilian targets at hundreds of miles per hour. Here we have a thousand guys approaching a heavily militarized border on foot . . .

 

[lupi]

I can't believe how dumb some people on these forums are.

Why couldn't you detect a large number of planes that crashed into your cities?

need I add a comment?

 

[The Green Bean]

This is the dumbest shit I have ever read.. In a long time.

Your intelligence failed. You could not detect that a plot on such a large scale was being plotted. Going by the logic of those here, that was a security failure with no fault of the Taliban, where the plot was hatched.

 

[The Green Bean]

Here we have four planes approaching three widely separated unguarded civilian targets at hundreds of miles per hour. Here we have a thousand guys approaching a heavily militarized border on foot . . .

You failure was that you failed to detect the plot. I'm not talking about shooting down the planes. It was an intelligence blunder. I would say that blunder was worse than our blunder of not being able to find OBL. A plot to kill thousands which went undetected? How hopeless is your intelligence?

On topic, the border is not heavily militarized. It's largely a porous border where people can cross freely. We should mine the border, but then the British legacy means that the Afghans do not agree on what the actual border is... So we're stuck with what we have.

 

[The Green Bean]

Meh... 27 dead terrorists... who cares?

You guys should be more concerned with your spider infestations...

Fuck you

 

[guyver01]

Fuck you

meh... predictable comeback... 1/10