Affirmative Action Sends Blacks To Schools Too Advanced For Them

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OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
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BTW, it's not a coincidence that all 5 Republicans on SCOTUS are Catholics. They are perceived as reliably anti choice. Maybe it's time to stop that affirmative action too.
so you hate texans thinking they are dumb and you have an issue with catholics. you seem like a pretty hate filled person, especially for a flaming liberal.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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Pretty sure Thomas' stance is ""I earned mine; the rest of you earn yours too." Just because Bush had to appoint a black jurist doesn't mean that Thomas didn't earn his spot, it just means that he did so within a narrower field.

As badly worded as is Scalia's statement, he has a point. It's good that if you come from a shit primary school and are in the top ten percent, you can go to university. But having come from a shit primary school, you aren't prepared for university. The obvious solution is to fix the shit primary schools, but we don't have the collective will for that. The next best solution is not a less advanced university, it's testing followed by intense remedial classes for those who need it. This is also a problem with well-off white suburban kids whose athletic prowess was enough to coast them through high school but not sufficient to coast them through college.
Thomas's involvement in Affirmative Action relates to his education, not his appointment to the SCOTUS.

You know, like how it applies exactly to this thread. :D

But yeah, that is basically paraphrasing from Thomas himself, from an interview I read some time ago "Yeah, I feel that I was given unfair treatment. I don't think anyone should have that type of advantage." Pretty much: "I got mine, fuck the rest of you."
 

Joepublic2

Golden Member
Jan 22, 2005
1,114
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Thomas's involvement in Affirmative Action relates to his education, not his appointment to the SCOTUS.

You know, like how it applies exactly to this thread. :D

But yeah, that is basically paraphrasing from Thomas himself, from an interview I read some time ago "Yeah, I feel that I was given unfair treatment. I don't think anyone should have that type of advantage." Pretty much: "I got mine, fuck the rest of you."
I know, it's funny how quickly people drop the egalitarian shtick when it comes to their own personal self interest. I don't see very many white liberals crying about white privilege telling potential employers "No, I can't take the job. Give it to a more qualified minority applicant".
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
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As if to say that jobs and colleges simply can't help being racist, so we'll artificially pump in some more racism but going in the opposite direction to "balance" things out.
That's pretty much been the case since this country existed.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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For some reason these threads always make me think of America History X and the "Affirmative Blacktion" quote from his dad in the movie lol
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,276
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The assumption is that college admission committees want to admit students who'll do poorly and need Scalia to tell them not to.
No, the assumption is that colleges, in their desire to create diversity and better representation of all groups in the student body, will end up admitting people that are less qualified and will struggle as a result. That's good for neither the under qualified students who might be better off at another school, nor the other students at the institution.

It's a very difficult situation, because I think there's tremendous value in having a very diverse student body. I just don't think using racial discrimination (or preferential treatment based on race) is an acceptable way to accomplish that goal.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
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He argued that "most of the black scientists in this country do not come from the most advanced schools" and that they benefit from a "slower track."

If I were a black scientist, I would be completely pissed off by this comment.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,276
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BTW, it's not a coincidence that all 5 Republicans on SCOTUS are Catholics. They are perceived as reliably anti choice. Maybe it's time to stop that affirmative action too.
What affirmative action is that? Are you saying unqualified Catholics become supreme court justices because someone has decided more Catholics are needed on the court? Do you even understand what affirmative action is?
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
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No, the assumption is that colleges, in their desire to create diversity and better representation of all groups in the student body, will end up admitting people that are less qualified and will struggle as a result. That's good for neither the under qualified students who might be better off at another school, nor the other students at the institution.

It's a very difficult situation, because I think there's tremendous value in having a very diverse student body. I just don't think using racial discrimination (or preferential treatment based on race) is an acceptable way to accomplish that goal.
Remove AA and other bullcrap set aside programs, set admission standard based SOLELY on test scores, grades, extra activities..ie, "color blind", treat every single student equally (isn't that what liberals always preach about - equality) and you will have a lot of Asian students. Diverse student body right there.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
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Thomas's involvement in Affirmative Action relates to his education, not his appointment to the SCOTUS.

You know, like how it applies exactly to this thread. :D

But yeah, that is basically paraphrasing from Thomas himself, from an interview I read some time ago "Yeah, I feel that I was given unfair treatment. I don't think anyone should have that type of advantage." Pretty much: "I got mine, fuck the rest of you."
I stand corrected, but how is that different from the supposedly noble stands taken by progressives? e.g. I think taxes should be higher, but I'll take advantage of the current lower rate. Or I think government should regulate cattle to drive beef into scarcity, but I'll eat all I want until that time.

If I were a black scientist, I would be completely pissed off by this comment.
Everybody ought to be a little pissed off by his comment because the way it's worded, being black is the reason these scientists need a "slower track".
 

gururu2

Senior member
Oct 14, 2007
685
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If my taxes are used to pay professor salaries, I want that school to have a student body that reflects the state population.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
19,455
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Not really. I am far more advanced for most of you to keep up with me. But I give you the truth full bore anyway. I have no mercy and treat you as equals because I know that your slowness is a reflection of your fear of being as capable as me. To admit to your true capacity would reveal your current state of self loathing and require also that you set it aside and experience superstar status. You were told that you are worthless and should never brag. As you can see, I'm not PC that way.
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,173
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Not really. I am far more advanced for most of you to keep up with me. But I give you the truth full bore anyway. I have no mercy and treat you as equals because I know that your slowness is a reflection of your fear of being as capable as me. To admit to your true capacity would reveal your current state of self loathing and require also that you set it aside and experience superstar status. You were told that you are worthless and should never brag. As you can see, I'm not PC that way.
Damn, I think I saw you on TV last night.

Is this you Moonbeam?

 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
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If Scalia is wrong, then the proper action is to do away with affirmative action for students.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
67,438
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Seems to me that the problem occurs before College/University. Also seems that the issue is not entirely an Education issue, but a Social issue, specifically Poverty and/or a high stress environment that distracts from Education.

Ending the WoD won't solve the issue, but I highly suspect will improve things significantly. Stop treating Inner City Youth as Criminals not yet caught and you might see them want to Learn and try to improve their lives that way.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
14,519
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Affirmative action is merely a short cut to fixing generations of discrimination. It's extremely difficult to bring blacks up to white standards because (on average) they lack the same educational and financial background. By allocating some educational opportunities and even jobs to blacks who don't objectively deserve them, we ensure that their kids and grandkids start out on a level playing field. Thus we do in one or two generations what might otherwise take a century or two. (Obviously this still takes decades because only a small number of blacks can benefit from affirmative action each generation.) Sure, it's not fair to those discriminated against (who are mostly Asian, not Caucasian) but life isn't fair. It's also not fair that some kids are born to parents who are poor and uneducated because that was official government policy. Having been denied the right to even apply for a job due to my skin color, I can tell you absolutely that is the side of the equation I want to be on even with that minor setback.

Neither of my parents made it past high school, yet my father retired owning his auto parts store outright and my mother retired as the county financial director. My paternal grandfather started the auto parts store and spent most of his life paying off the rich man who bankrolled him. My maternal grandfather had to drop out and go to work at twelve (oldest of twelve kids when his father died) and he died with a farm valued at near a million dollars. All that was the result of very hard work and long hours, but you know what else they all had in common? None of them were prohibited from attending the "normal" schools, nor prohibited by government from having any jobs they could land, nor seriously discriminated against by society due to their skin color.

With all the inequities inherent in life, affirmative action is one of the most benign. I don't think it's fair to call it racism, it's just racially based discrimination to overturn the effects of government sanctioned racism.
Thanks; well said.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
16,538
753
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Seems to me that the problem occurs before College/University. Also seems that the issue is not entirely an Education issue, but a Social issue, specifically Poverty and/or a high stress environment that distracts from Education.

Ending the WoD won't solve the issue, but I highly suspect will improve things significantly. Stop treating Inner City Youth as Criminals not yet caught and you might see them want to Learn and try to improve their lives that way.
Treating them as criminals? How about don't act/behave as criminals in schools?

Case in point (bad behavior as early as in middle school):

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37889163&postcount=97
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
27,041
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Is there a study or proof that affirmative action accepts lessor students? If so then that isn't how affirmative action was supposed to work.
I assume most here have seen these studies and that these studies are fully peer reviewed otherwise i don't understand everyone's position.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
16,538
753
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There are many examples of what I'm talking about.
Just last week, friends in Dallas sent me this link about the incident in Mesquite (just outside of Dallas). Numerous mob fights second year in a row at the annual family Christmas light festival. It happened last year, it happened again this year, who says it will not happen again next year? Multiple fights at a family religious gathering for all? Seriously?

This the second year in a row that the festivities have been disrupted by fights.
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/12/07/violent-night-in-mesquites-christmas-at-the-park-brings-criticism-to-city-leaders/

Self-inflicted problems and not from racism/evil whiteys/other excuses. What's that old saying? Something about if you want others to respect you, you must respect yourself and behave properly first.
 
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Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
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Just last week, friends in Dallas sent me this link about the incident in Mesquite (just outside of Dallas). Numerous mob fights second year in a row at the annual family Christmas light festival. It happened last year, it happened again this year, who says it will not happen again next year? Multiple fights at a family religious gathering for all? Seriously?



http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/12/07/violent-night-in-mesquites-christmas-at-the-park-brings-criticism-to-city-leaders/

Self-inflicted problems and not from racism/evil whiteys/other excuses. What's that old saying? Something about if you want others to respect you, you must respect yourself and behave properly first.
So what is your point here? You bring up anecdotes trying to prove what narrative? Just come out and say it and be done with it so we can ignore you.
 

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