Advice on new rig for 3D software

[Davidh373]

^ Gtx 580 3gb is coming from palit/gainward so OP is not misinformed it just hasn't really been widely publicized.

Ahh, NEATO! But not practical I'm afraid...

 

[mnewsham]

Ahh, NEATO! But not practical I'm afraid...

Actually at super high settings 4 GTX 580's in SLI ARE limited by the vRAM so it should give some users a very good boost.

 

[booth_1]

Thanks guys, I can most definately sympathize with having to repeat the same things over and over, as long as we keep popping out babies there will always be noobs such as myself.

As you have all suggested I have downgraded most of the parts and am just trying to put it together now and see what my costing comes too, will probably get the GPU out of the states as even with shipping its a couple hundred cheaper.

So David does that mean that viewport uses normal ram as apposed to GPU ram, what about viewport rendering as in MODO or Vue?

 

[mfenn]

Actually at super high settings 4 GTX 580's in SLI ARE limited by the vRAM so it should give 3 users a very good boost.

Fixed

 

[mfenn]

Thanks guys, I can most definately sympathize with having to repeat the same things over and over, as long as we keep popping out babies there will always be noobs such as myself.

As you have all suggested I have downgraded most of the parts and am just trying to put it together now and see what my costing comes too, will probably get the GPU out of the states as even with shipping its a couple hundred cheaper.

So David does that mean that viewport uses normal ram as apposed to GPU ram, what about viewport rendering as in MODO or Vue?

It will use some of both. An Nvidia card like a Quadro 4000 or GTX 570 will be plenty. 3GB of VRAM is insane and if you buy one, you'll just be wasting money on very expensive GDDR5 chips that are never used.

 

[mnewsham]

Fixed

:awe:

 

[Davidh373]

So David does that mean that viewport uses normal ram as apposed to GPU ram, what about viewport rendering as in MODO or Vue?

Viewport uses VRAM, but that doesn't mean you'll need 3GB. There is nothing wrong with getting more VRAM, but if you aren't going to be viewing over 3,000,000 polys on screen at any given time you won't be needing more than your average 1GB-1.5GB VRAM. The 69xx cards from AMD are up to 2GB, but you don't see any of us recommending those because NVidia's drivers have a better reputation. VRAM alone is not going to get you performance. The only card I would recommend for over $350 (570 1.25GB) is the $750 Quadro 4000. It has 2GB VRAM.

Modo is a program I don't have much experience with, but assuming it works like the Autodesk viewport rendering in Maya, Max, and Softimage, or C4D, it's all usin' the VRAM .

 

[booth_1]

Thanks guys, bought most of the components (minus GPU) as per your suggestions. after hearing about chip failure I am going to upgrade my gigabyte ud3r to the asus pro which has 4 sata 3 ports, and I like a lot of the features on there ( i think I have about 7 days to return parts for exchange).

I have kingston 8gb kit x2 (4x4gb chips) 1333mh, would there be benefit to changing to the gskill ripjaw c9 1600mhz which was out of stock but now back in?

Thanks again, cant wait to put my system together

 

[Davidh373]

I have kingston 8gb kit x2 (4x4gb chips) 1333mh, would there be benefit to changing to the gskill ripjaw c9 1600mhz which was out of stock but now back in?

If it's more money (like even $20) that is a no. It's likely close to $100 more and all you're gonna get from it is 2% of your total performance.

 

[mfenn]

If it's more money (like even $20) that is a no. It's likely close to $100 more and all you're gonna get from it is 2% of your total performance.

Yeah, I wouldn't pay any extra for DDR3 1600.

Everything else looks good though, just remember that you do not need to spend ridiculous sums of money on a GPU.

 

[booth_1]

funny enough it is about $50 cheaper, and it looks a hell o a lot cooler
But if no real benefit too much hassle to exchange.

So sys so far:
2600k
h50 cpu cooler
16gb kingston 1333mhz
uograde to asus p67 pro
ocz vertex 2 120gb ssd
2TB WD20ears caviar green hard drive
coolermaster HAF922 case
gigabyte odin GT 800w PSU (couldnt get the coolermaster 650W)
2 x 27" acer monitors

the GTX 570 costs $400 here, so I might order the GTX 580 3gb from the states for $600. If the vram makes a lot of difference to viewport perormance with large scenes, then the 3gb will make all the diference, for $150 less than quadro 4000 2gb

Hows all that sound?

 

[fffblackmage]

Looks like you got yourself a really nice rig, though I didn't know Gigabyte also sold PSUs. Are those any good?

 

[Davidh373]

the GTX 570 costs $400 here, so I might order the GTX 580 3gb from the states for $600. If the vram makes a lot of difference to viewport perormance with large scenes, then the 3gb will make all the diference, for $150 less than quadro 4000 2gb

I still dunno if you'll see any benefit from 3GB, and it's $200 more... Do what you want, but I just don't see anyone (sans Pixar and Dreamworks) using 3GB VRAM.

 

[booth_1]

Hey David, apps like mudbox easily get up to 15 mil with fine detail, and once you start adding large textures to a scene it can slow to a crawl. Nothing slows the artistic oomph like a hard to work with scene. So if VRAM will speed things up I wouldn't mind spending the extra cash.

Not sure about the gigabyte psu, if cost has anything to do with it it must be damn good, my local stores didn't have much else to offer for my needs.

Oh and would be nice to make a forest in cue without it taking so long to populate and manouvre

So the only question, to super gpu or not to super gpu

 

[mfenn]

I would not pay 50% more for the extra VRAM. 1.5GB is already a hell of a lot.

 

[Davidh373]

Hey David, apps like mudbox easily get up to 15 mil with fine detail, and once you start adding large textures to a scene it can slow to a crawl. Nothing slows the artistic oomph like a hard to work with scene. So if VRAM will speed things up I wouldn't mind spending the extra cash.

Not sure about the gigabyte psu, if cost has anything to do with it it must be damn good, my local stores didn't have much else to offer for my needs.

Oh and would be nice to make a forest in cue without it taking so long to populate and manouvre

So the only question, to super gpu or not to super gpu

and you're not exporting normal maps from Mudbox/ ZBrush why? That is the workflow the pros use, it's what I use (and really what everyone else uses). Without normal maps your 15 million polys from mudbox gets REALLY hard to rig and animate (even without the obvious framerate issues). As for ZBrush and Mudbox, they don't work off the graphics card (except for textures/ materials, which are rarely over 500mb unless you manage them poorly). So nothing you do in ZBrush or Mudbox will make a dent in any ol' GPU, but your standard RAM might take a significant beating.

As for Cue, I dunno what that is.

I vote "not to super GPU". The standard 580 is a beast already, and it's almost guaranteed you'll be seeing a hefty markup on that already overpriced GPU.

 

[booth_1]

Ah I see, I thought mudbox used vram, and sorry for the spelling error I meant Vue, I have a personal animation in mind which involves some pretty intricate and dense jungle, but my current system cannot handle anything near my imaginings (even for single frame renders for matte painting).

David I do use normall maps when exporting to other apps, but my system struggles with the poly count in mudbox, after reading a bit more it seems that the GTX 400 series has a fair bit of trouble with 3d apps, so maybe the extra memory is not as necessary as I thought. What software do you use?

Would my software choices make a good argument for upgrading my ram type? the general consensus so far seems to be no.

So close now to having it all put together!!

Thanks for everyones help, I have learned a lot since finding this website, and look forward to learning more, viva la anandtech!

 

[Davidh373]

Ah I see, I thought mudbox used vram, and sorry for the spelling error I meant Vue, I have a personal animation in mind which involves some pretty intricate and dense jungle, but my current system cannot handle anything near my imaginings (even for single frame renders for matte painting).

For that kind of shot (for framerate's sake) you may want to pick up a compositing software like Combustion, or After Effects.

EDIT: Maybe render the jungle (even maybe lighting passes for the jungle) separate, then render out a png sequence for the character animation(s) and layer them (roto brush if needed) in After Effects.

David I do use normall maps when exporting to other apps, but my system struggles with the poly count in mudbox, after reading a bit more it seems that the GTX 400 series has a fair bit of trouble with 3d apps, so maybe the extra memory is not as necessary as I thought. What software do you use?

The only problems I've had so far is rendering in Mental Ray from Orthographic in Max 2011 (went to 2010 just to test and it seems to be fine). It looked like I had some kind of blotchy transparency on my textures (made me fail one of my assignments... V.V), but that was my fault for rendering from Orthographic when I didn't even want to. It used to have moderate framerate issues after hitting 1 mil. in the viewport, but after the 260.99 driver hit the web I can get up between 2 mil. and 3 mil. depending on how many textures a scene has.

Would my software choices make a good argument for upgrading my ram type? the general consensus so far seems to be no.

Do you mean between 1333Mhz and 1600Mhz speeds? No, you won't see a big difference.

So close now to having it all put together!!

Thanks for everyones help, I have learned a lot since finding this website, and look forward to learning more, viva la anandtech!

Glad to help ! Don't be afraid to ask any further questions! We're with you to the end!

 

[Davidh373]

David I do use normall maps when exporting to other apps, but my system struggles with the poly count in mudbox, after reading a bit more it seems that the GTX 400 series has a fair bit of trouble with 3d apps, so maybe the extra memory is not as necessary as I thought. What software do you use?

Just to add, this is partially why I recommended the Quadro 4000, because you were considering a top of the line card anyway, the price difference might be worth getting the professional standard. The drivers are tested and optimized for all Autodesk 3D software, as well as many Adobe softwares. This way you know you're getting something that will do what you want it to without any bugs or crashes. It's not that I've had any crashes or weirdness (aside from the temporary texture problem I had with that one scene) with my 470, but Quadros are worth the premium IF you have the premium to spend.

 

[booth_1]

I've got to say that the 3d compositing softwares are my weak spot, which I need to focus on if I'm gonna make any progress I suppose.

I had a job fall through which was why the budget constraint, but have a meeting today to pick up another client (I work as a Digital Artist + whatever else comes my way when pennies are pinching). So if I get the client I think I will go the Quadro 4000, are the pro ATI cards any good?

 

[Krynj]

Good luck with your meeting today!

 

[Davidh373]

are the pro ATI cards any good?

They aren't supported as much as Quadros yet, but I think they are tested with Autodesk apps, and they are cheaper. I would still prefer a Quadro over a Firepro though.

I've got to say that the 3d compositing softwares are my weak spot, which I need to focus on if I'm gonna make any progress I suppose.

It is much easier on your computer (be it beefy or not) to color correct and layer video (or in most cases .PNG image files) than to load 5 billion polys into a scene with Photoshop texture files and all sorts of mesh modifiers and take 10 hours per frame to render . We're not to the point where that is reliable or efficient yet, but we might be some day . Granted, even with the compositing, render time is still a hassle...

Good luck with your meeting today!

Ditto

 

[booth_1]

Hi guys,

Well i got the job, thanks for the good luck wishes, its not as big a pay day as i was hoping for, but money is money.

So I have more or less settled on the following GPU's, want some input on which one to choose.
Wont be doing any gpu rendering just yet so its more for viewport performance.

GTX 560 2gb vram - $320

GTX 570 O/C 1.2gb - $415

GTX 580 O/C - $620

Quadro 4000 2gb - $750 (if I buy it from the states will it still be under warranty? if not it cost $1300 in australia which is too much)

So, which one? I should have a day off soon to build my machine (first time so I will prob need some help with it, and will follow the build section on this site) and am DYING to put her together and see how my software runs

 

[Davidh373]

Quadro 4000 2gb - $750 (if I buy it from the states will it still be under warranty? if not it cost $1300 in australia which is too much)

You might want to talk to a PNY or NVidia rep about that one, just to be sure. That kind of money is not something to screw around with...

GTX 560 2gb vram - $320

GTX 570 O/C 1.2gb - $415

GTX 580 O/C - $620

I would go for either the 570 or the 4000 (the 560 2GB is tempting though). I don't feel that paying an extra $200 for something like a 5% performance boost and 256MB VRAM is worthy of that price.

 

[mnewsham]

I would go with the 560 2gb personally as money isn't as free flowing as we might like