Advice on new rig for 3D software

[booth_1]

Hi all, my first time posting on this forum, but I have read loads of posts and everyone seems very helpfull (both positive and negative posts are quite informative)

I am going to build a workstation almost soley for the purpose of 2d imagery and 3D modelling and animation (Photoshop, Modo, C4D, Vue and mudbox mainly). So I want fast viewport rendering with lots of items ( I believe this is gpu based?).
Also decent rendering times would be a major plus (CPU).

Up till now Intel PC's have been my preference (I dont know much about workstations as a result) but I am P'oed with the constant socket changes, and I need a new PC within the next month, so I am considering an AMD workstation dual socket motherboard, I believe the G34 MB will be compatible with bulldozer, and that when the new Bulldozer CPUs come out, they will likely compete or beat the older I7 980 for a third of the price (imagine the equivelant of 2x 980's on 1 M/B :awe, so I have a future proofish workstation.
Plus quad channel memory, more cores for less and more reliable for extended use.

Could you please let me know if I have chosen parts which are not compatible and let me know if I have left anything out, or if you can think of something better.

Also I am in Australia, so no newegg, but I know a few international shippers ( www.provantage.com , anyone know them?), but mostly I'll be using www.mwave.com.au ?

So the PC I have in mind at the moment is:

AMD SR5690 G34 - $470 http://www.provantage.com/tyan-s8236gm3nr~7TYA90AP.htm please suggest if another around the same price is better, so many to choose from

Opteron X12 6128 - $280 http://www.provantage.com/amd-os6128...f~7AAMD2EV.htm - only one until Bulldozer, I know they are only 2gh, but for rendering should be good, and bulldozer on the G34 will still have more cores than C32 and I think will have faster speeds.

Gtx 580 3gb when it comes out - $600 +- the extra memory and cuda cores should help with viewport display. I am not going with a workstation card because I think Cuda and more memory are most important for viewport, and the 580 is much cheaper with loads of memory.

I am not sure which memory is best for this board, I would like about 16gb (in 4gb chips), which seems to be total - $200 +-

Hard drive 1 - 128ssd, can you suggest one - $300

Hard drive 2 - 1tb caviar - $150

Power supply? - I'd guess around $150

Case? - about $150

TOTAL - $2300

So what could I do better for that price up to a max of $2500 (preferably $2200) for my needs.

Even if intel xeons or I7 980 might be better I would loose the upgrade potential right?

I look forward to your comments and suggestions.

 

[mnewsham]

I would just like to say that sacrificing performance for upgradability is fool hardy, you are spending more upfront to be able to change cpu later, id rather spend that money over time and have better performance throughout. So you get ok cpu now and mb now, then ok cpu later, OR very good cpu now and mb and then very good cpu and new mb again later... For the same price.

 

[booth_1]

I dont mind spending a couple hundred extra for a better motherboard with the upgradability, and I thought a 12 core would be good for rendering until bulldozer.

what would you recommend for my price range and purpose? If I can get a powerful system (like gtx 980) and it'll last a few years then cool. But wouldnt I be able to add to this config with 2x cpus (for say $700)for a much more powerful system in the next 6 months- a year? rather than buying new MB and CPU when sandybridge comes out?
Thanks

 

[mnewsham]

I dont mind spending a couple hundred extra for a better motherboard with the upgradability, and I thought a 12 core would be good for rendering until bulldozer.

what would you recommend for my price range and purpose? If I can get a powerful system (like gtx 980) and it'll last a few years then cool. But wouldnt I be able to add to this config with 2x cpus (for say $700)for a much more powerful system in the next 6 months- a year? rather than buying new MB and CPU when sandybridge comes out?
Thanks

The new i7-2600k is going to be good at rendering, you don't need 2 cpu's for rendering and clock for clock the intel cpu is much faster, save money now there is no such thing as "future proofing" just by what you need now and upgrade down the line, instead of buying two cpu's and a dual cpu motherboard, just buy sandy bridge and use the savings to buy socket 2011 next year with ivy bridge. Oh and the gtx 590 might be good for you over the 580

 

[booth_1]

Good Lord! just had a look at that card and it seems somethin special, I suppose with the money I save on the processor and M/B I could pick that bad boy up and have awesome realtime rendering (which is more important to me than rendertime to be honest).

OK your bringing me round already, any suggestions on a good motherboard/ram/power supply to compliment that beast?

 

[mnewsham]

Good Lord! just had a look at that card and it seems somethin special, I suppose with the money I save on the processor and M/B I could pick that bad boy up and have awesome realtime rendering (which is more important to me than rendertime to be honest).

OK your bringing me round already, any suggestions on a good motherboard/ram/power supply to compliment that beast?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.576615

4x4gb dimms of 1333mhz cl9 ram

A good 850 watt psu

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Good Lord! just had a look at that card and it seems somethin special, I suppose with the money I save on the processor and M/B I could pick that bad boy up and have awesome realtime rendering (which is more important to me than rendertime to be honest).

OK your bringing me round already, any suggestions on a good motherboard/ram/power supply to compliment that beast?

mnewsham got you on the motherboard and CPU.

CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-850HX 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
This power supply is a beast. I have the 620W version and it refuses to die.

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9Q-16GBXL
Assurance that all 4 modules will work dandy together.

Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model 996770
You could probably get away with buying two of these and saving some money. Make sure each pair is paired up properly in your motherboard.

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL7D-8GBRH
Faster timings might help. Two pairs here too.

 

[booth_1]

Thanks mate, I'm looking for the best prices on those. Wouldnt it be better to use a M/B that supports say 2000mhz ram and then get 2000mhz ram?

 

[mnewsham]

You wont really notice a difference in speed tbh

 

[Krynj]

Coming directly from another C4D user: Just go with the i7-2600 (or 2600K if you plan on overclocking). If you want to wait and see what Bulldozer has to offer, then feel free. But I doubt it's going to take a dump on the 2600K.

Within a month I'm upgrading my current machine (which has done thousands of hours of rendering in the 2 years I've been using it), and I'm going with the i7-2600K with a nice aftermarket cooler. With a decent overclock, it'll render 3+x quicker than my overclocked Q6600.

As for RAM, just get a lot. RAM speed isn't as important when it comes to rendering. Faster RAM would allow for faster data transfers between CPU and RAM, but it'll be negligible. More RAM is better than fast RAM for rendering. You'll want more RAM for huge scenes and texture maps. Faster RAM is just going to cost you more out of pocket, and won't really net better performance.

I'm going with 2 of these kits (I know you can't use NewEgg, but you can at least use their page as a reference for product numbers and all that).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-311-_-Product

As far as video card, it all depends on the applications you use. Like I said, I'm a C4D user, and right now, it doesn't support any GPU rendering, and when it and if it does, it'll be OpenCL instead of CUDA. I can say that the video card you've picked will be just fine though. That 580 has a ton of horsepower.

For my Sandy Bridge build, I'll be going with either of these boards:
ASRock: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157217
GIGABYTE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128463

Regarding your SSD, the only one I've ever used is an Intel X25m-G2, and it's been great.

As far as cases go, anything with a good amount of airflow will be fine. Something in the Coolermaster HAF series, or maybe an Antec 1200 will be good.

 

[mfenn]

Looks like mnewsham straightened you out, and a good thing too! G34 isn't going to be compatible with Interlagos (the Bulldozer equivalent to Magny). The 6128 in particular is a terrible choice for a workstation chip because all of your desktop interactions are going to be single-threaded. Magny is really only suited to high throughput tasks.

Also, I would not buy the GTX 580 3GB. The extra memory is really only useful for GPGPU, not viewport rendering (unless you are rocking dual 30"s or something).

 

[Davidh373]

mnewsham got you going in a good direction, but I would personally go with a Quadro 4000 if I was spending that kind of money on a GPU.

 

[mfenn]

mnewsham got you going in a good direction, but I would personally go with a Quadro 4000 if I was spending that kind of money on a GPU.

Not a bad idea actually.

 

[mnewsham]

Not a bad idea actually.

He has to be using programs that will take advantage of the quadro features over the raw power of the consumer card to make it worth it though.

 

[mfenn]

He has to be using programs that will take advantage of the quadro features over the raw power of the consumer card to make it worth it though.

True, I dunno how well those apps take advantage of Quadro's.

 

[mnewsham]

True, I dunno how well those apps take advantage of Quadro's.

ultimately it is up to the OP as he will be the one who uses the programs and would know which he uses most often, if he uses programs requiring more GPU power and doesn't have Quadro specific support then a standard consumer card would be better if he mostly uses programs where the Quadro would perform best then spending the money on the Quadro might be of more interest.

 

[booth_1]

thanks guys, good to know about the memory, now I can stick 4 x 8Gb in there

I will try and find an equivelant board in aus or to ship from the states (your guys pc stuff is so much cheaper).

Now I was under the impression that the GPU was used strongly to view and manipulate scenes in the viewport, and that more memory on the GPU meant smoother interaction with more complex scenes (especially in Modo and Mudbox), is that not the case? And if so wouldnt a GTX 580 with 3g of ram be more effective than say the quadro with 1gb?

Oh and the hope, especially if I save some cash on the build is to rock 1 30"

Thanks for your help guys

P.S. my current build which is moving to work premises is:
i7 950
12gb 1600mhz
GTX 460 1GB
WD black 1TB

Gotta admit not great performance in viewport

 

[booth_1]

So after a bit more research I am leaning towards:

Asus p65 deluxe version - 2 x pci express 16, and better cooling for a more stable overclock.

2600k

3 or 4 8gb 1333mhz ram chips if I can find them, otherwise 4 x 4gb 1333mhz ( again whichever of the above suggested brands I can find in aus). I have noticed chips advertised as "optimized for dual channel sandy bridge", is this marketing gimmick or will it really make a difference to speed?

ocz vertex 2 120gb ssd

WD 1tb for storage

Still undecided on graphics, either gtx 580 3gb, gtx 590 (might be a bit pricey for performance gains, or quadro if I can get a comparable one for around $800

CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-850HX 850W

should I be looking at extra cooling for ram and/or cpu if I want to maintain an overclock?

Thanks for the help and if anyone has any idea about the viewport speed thing mentioned above please let me know

 

[Krynj]

When you're talking about viewport and polygons, it really all depends on the 3D suite you're using. Some 3D apps barely use the power of a graphics card (other than its onboard memory) to boost 3D performance. I'm betting you wouldn't notice any difference between a GTX 580 and a GTX 590. It might look better on paper, but most 3D applications can't even utilize the hundreds of stream processors/processor cores on today's graphics cards just yet. Unless you KNOW FOR A FACT that your PRIMARY 3D SUITE will utilize THIS EXACT GRAPHICS CARD'S HORSEPOWER, just pass on it, and get a midrange card, and save the rest for future upgrades. GPU rendering on consumer graphics cards is in its infancy. Don't spend your cash hoping you'll be able to utilize a technology that barely even even exists right now. Just go midrange, and save the rest.

Or just build another render node with just mobo/PSU/RAM/CPU, and small HDD with those savings.

 

[mfenn]

So after a bit more research I am leaning towards:

Asus p65 deluxe version - 2 x pci express 16, and better cooling for a more stable overclock.

2600k

3 or 4 8gb 1333mhz ram chips if I can find them, otherwise 4 x 4gb 1333mhz ( again whichever of the above suggested brands I can find in aus). I have noticed chips advertised as "optimized for dual channel sandy bridge", is this marketing gimmick or will it really make a difference to speed?

ocz vertex 2 120gb ssd

WD 1tb for storage

Still undecided on graphics, either gtx 580 3gb, gtx 590 (might be a bit pricey for performance gains, or quadro if I can get a comparable one for around $800

CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-850HX 850W

should I be looking at extra cooling for ram and/or cpu if I want to maintain an overclock?

Thanks for the help and if anyone has any idea about the viewport speed thing mentioned above please let me know

Holy crap no. You are going down the wrong path my friend.

You do not need a fancy tweakers mobo, you do not need 3GB of VRAM, you do not need a $170 PSU.

As I see it, you have two legitimate options, neither of which include high-end "gamer" gear.

Option one:
Build two machines, one midrange everyday use PC that you use for creating your models, etc and another dedicated render box using a cheap Phenom II X6 and minimal extras. This solution has the advantage of scaling to damn near infinite render power.

Option two:
Buy a serious 2P Xeon workstation from a Tier 1 vendor. This will be simpler than option one, as you only have one machine to worry about but will not scale as well.

Either way, don't waste a bunch of money on glitz and glamor for a work machine.

 

[Davidh373]

So after a bit more research I am leaning towards:

Asus p65 deluxe version - 2 x pci express 16, and better cooling for a more stable overclock.

2600k

3 or 4 8gb 1333mhz ram chips if I can find them, otherwise 4 x 4gb 1333mhz ( again whichever of the above suggested brands I can find in aus). I have noticed chips advertised as "optimized for dual channel sandy bridge", is this marketing gimmick or will it really make a difference to speed?

ocz vertex 2 120gb ssd

WD 1tb for storage

Still undecided on graphics, either gtx 580 3gb, gtx 590 (might be a bit pricey for performance gains, or quadro if I can get a comparable one for around $800

CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-850HX 850W

should I be looking at extra cooling for ram and/or cpu if I want to maintain an overclock?

Thanks for the help and if anyone has any idea about the viewport speed thing mentioned above please let me know

Where did you get these ideas from?... We never gave any advice that would bring you anywhere close to these decisions...

EDIT: Except the Quadro, the 4000 would be a great choice.

 

[booth_1]

Ok I must be reading something wrong then,

The deluxe asus I have downgraded to the pro version, I wanted a board that would allow me to keep a stable overclock at say 4.5 - 4.8gh for rendering and what not.

Also the Gtx 580 3gb has the extra ram to allow me to handle large scenes, and more and more 3d softwares are utilizing CUDA

the ssd just to load files and software faster, but not a neccesity.

PSU I dont know much about, but I believe modo can make use of dual GPU for viewport, so I was thinking a powerful enough PSU to handle that potential.

Basically the most important thing is I would like a computer that will give me real fast viewport speed for software like Zbrush, mudbox,C4D and MODO.
That being the priority I might then buy a cheaper machine for final Renders which i can just leave top do there thing for days on end.

I use the softwares in a limited fashion for work at the moment, but I am hoping to focus more on the 3d line in the near future.

My budget has recently become a bit more constrained, and I would appreciate you guys helping me get the price down for what I need.

Anyone used www.provantage.com or know any other international shippers.

Thanks for the guidance peeps

 

[mnewsham]

okay get a gigabyte UD3 Motherboard, you will not be doing SLI so forget about it, get a H50 cooler if you really want to OC, that should get you 4.5-4.6, get a seasonic, antec, XFX basically something like this Dont spend too much, get good quality and 600 Watts is FINE. get the i7-2600k if you want, 580 3gb if you want, Get 4x4Gb 1333Mhz CL9 RAM (like this) And get a samsung F3 1Tb as they are usually cheaper and just as good.

 

[Davidh373]

ok, so I had this long beast of a thing typed out explaining in detail how you still had quite a few things wrong, so if I'm a tad short, sorry, but I'm not retyping the same 5 paragraphes twice (hopefully you can sympathize).

The deluxe asus I have downgraded to the pro version, I wanted a board that would allow me to keep a stable overclock at say 4.5 - 4.8gh for rendering and what not.

An expensive mobo is a waste. Any mobo with an OC utility is just as capable at OCing as an expensive one with an OC utility. Get the ASUS P8P67 and you'll be happy as a clam.

PSU I dont know much about, but I believe modo can make use of dual GPU for viewport, so I was thinking a powerful enough PSU to handle that potential.

Buying a $200 PSU over a $120 one is like throwing your money down the drain. Get a $100-$120 bronze cert. in between 650W-750W. That will be more than enough for any GPU.

Also the Gtx 580 3gb has the extra ram to allow me to handle large scenes, and more and more 3d softwares are utilizing CUDA

I work in all the apps you have listed and I have yet to find a reason to go over 3 million polys in my scenes (only brought it up that far to test the card BTW) which are handled by my GTX 470 1.25GB. You don't need 3GB VRAM lol. Besides, there is no 3GB 580, I think you're misinformed.

Basically the most important thing is I would like a computer that will give me real fast viewport speed for software like Zbrush, mudbox,C4D and MODO.

That being the priority I might then buy a cheaper machine for final Renders which i can just leave top do there thing for days on end.

ZBrush loves good ol' RAM. Last time I checked you could have a Pentium 4 as long as you had 4 or more GB RAM it was happy as can be .

My budget has recently become a bit more constrained, and I would appreciate you guys helping me get the price down for what I need.

All the more reason to listen to us when we tell you you're spending money where you don't need to be. We're happy to help of course, but I type this same message to 5 other people a day wanting to build workstations, and it gets REALLY bothersome when somebody needs to hear the same thing from everyone at least 3 times before he/ she is convinced we know what we're talking about. Believe me, we have done this countless times before (I've even build a few workstations for myself and many friends), so we know exactly what you need and what isn't worth the extra premium cost.

 

[mnewsham]

^ Gtx 580 3gb is coming from palit/gainward so OP is not misinformed it just hasn't really been widely publicized.