Advice needed on tenant end of lease

[NetWareHead]

What exactly is it then? Dirtying the carpets?

It doesn't constitute cleaning in my book. For example, you can sweep a floor or grab a mop and actually wash it.

 

[NetWareHead]

The carpet is 8 years old. you need to get over the "expensive residential" carpet.


and frankly as a landlord you should do it YOURSELF after they move out.

I only stated it was expensive carpet because I was explaining how wear and tear was not a factor. It still looks great years later. I'm not in love with it and I know it will wear out at some point.

The point to me wanting a cleaning is because I made a concession to him in allowing a cat and our deal was that he would clean the carpets so there would not be any residual allergens.

To be honest, if there were no cat I would not clean the carpet at all (barring any stains/dirt/smells). This is purely for the allergens; I lost a potential tenant once who came to look at the place and claimed her allergies were acting up. She claimed she could smell a cat had lived here. And it was true, I had a cat when I lived there and she said she could not live there. Her eyes were reddening and tearing etc... as she was talking to me. So when this current tenant came to me wanting to rent the place and said he had a cat, I told him he could have one provided he cleaned the rugs.

 

[NetWareHead]

I have a steam cleaner. How would I give a receipt for cleaning with that?

And equally relevant: how can I believe he actually cleaned it without a receipt?

At this point I would even accept a receipt from a rug doctor rental from a store.

What if I played hardball and deducted from his security deposit citing lack of evidence of any cleaning mandated in the lease?

 

[Newbian]

It doesn't constitute cleaning in my book. For example, you can sweep a floor or grab a mop and actually wash it.

That's the problem as just because you view it as not cleaning it is in fact cleaning and enough to count.

You didn't specify thus the tenant only needs to do the minimal thus vacuuming in enough.

Yes if there are new stains that needs to be clean.

 

[Genx87]

If it isnt spell out professional then he can clean it however he likes. If you dont like the results you can attempt to collect after having it professionally cleaned. I think the issue you will run into is carpet is considered wear and tear. And after 3 years a judge may look at you and say tough luck.

What I do with animals is collect a non-refundable pet deposit to deal with cleaning after the tenant leaves. That way you dont have to rely on the tenant to clean the carpets.

As a landlord I dont expect wear and tear items to be cleaned by the tenants. That said after my current tenants vacate the property new carpeting will be put in the upstairs. Even the best tenants seem to use up the carpet faster than typical homeowners.

 

[jaedaliu]

Unless the lease says professional cleaning he can go rent a rug doctor and be fine.

There is jack shit you can do until he leaves. Even then IF you are fallowing the law there is still little you can do. IF the carpet is clean that is all that matters.

The carpet is 8 years old. you need to get over the "expensive residential" carpet.


and frankly as a landlord you should do it YOURSELF after they move out.

Is there a return in original condition statement? I thought the standard way of doing things is to clean everything, document, and inflate until the entire security deposit (plus interest) is withheld.

 

[surfsatwerk]

8 year old carpet is old.

 

[DrPizza]

I think any reasonable person would understand that "clean the carpets" implies more than vacuuming them.

That said, if I saw it in a lease, I would assume it meant that renting a Rug Doctor was fine. And, honestly, for a rental, I can't see how the difference between how well a Rug Doctor would do the job & a professional would make any difference. Especially for 8 year old carpets. It would be like sending an old car out to get it professionally detailed, while ignoring dents and rust.

 

[DrPizza]

Is there a return in original condition statement? I thought the standard way of doing things is to clean everything, document, and inflate until the entire security deposit (plus interest) is withheld.

One of my son's landlords thought the exact same thing. Fortunately, my son understood the concept of taking pictures prior to moving in, and pictures after moving out. For example, there was some burnt on carbon on the stovetop that couldn't be cleaned off. Landlord was charging him for it. But, the pictures showed that it was cleaner when they moved out than when they moved in. Small claims court agreed - and since the landlord knew that they had a 1 month overlap with their new place - signed the new lease and it began 30 days before their lease expired - and knew that they were mostly moved into the new place, he sent them an email telling them to get the rest of their stuff out within so many more days (before the end of the month) because he had painters coming in and had the apartment leased out starting the first day of the next month - (this was before he had even inspected the place) - small claims court also prorated their rent for the last month and they got that back as well.

The funny thing was - the landlord took them to small claims for more money than the security deposit. Not only did the landlord not get more money, but the landlord also lost the entire security deposit AND half a month's rent.

 

[Genx87]

One of my son's landlords thought the exact same thing. Fortunately, my son understood the concept of taking pictures prior to moving in, and pictures after moving out. For example, there was some burnt on carbon on the stovetop that couldn't be cleaned off. Landlord was charging him for it. But, the pictures showed that it was cleaner when they moved out than when they moved in. Small claims court agreed - and since the landlord knew that they had a 1 month overlap with their new place - signed the new lease and it began 30 days before their lease expired - and knew that they were mostly moved into the new place, he sent them an email telling them to get the rest of their stuff out within so many more days (before the end of the month) because he had painters coming in and had the apartment leased out starting the first day of the next month - (this was before he had even inspected the place) - small claims court also prorated their rent for the last month and they got that back as well.

The funny thing was - the landlord took them to small claims for more money than the security deposit. Not only did the landlord not get more money, but the landlord also lost the entire security deposit AND half a month's rent.

Good, that landlord is an ass. Really, carbon stains on the stove?

 

[NetWareHead]

That's the problem as just because you view it as not cleaning it is in fact cleaning and enough to count.

You didn't specify thus the tenant only needs to do the minimal thus vacuuming in enough.

You are looking only at the letter of the clause in my lease and ignoring the spirit of it. Realistically, do I have to insert a clause into the lease specifying that my tenant needs to vacuum? Do I also have to remind him to sweep the floors, clean the toilets etc...? Of course that would be ridiculous to write a lease that way and equally ridiculous to interpret my lease as such.

I think any reasonable person would understand that "clean the carpets" implies more than vacuuming them.

 

[Newbian]

You are looking only at the letter of the clause in my lease and ignoring the spirit of it. Realistically, do I have to insert a clause into the lease specifying that my tenant needs to vacuum? Do I also have to remind him to sweep the floors, clean the toilets etc...? Of course that would be ridiculous to write a lease that way and equally ridiculous to interpret my lease as such.

And that's why legally they would be able to just vacuum and call it enough short of stains.

Spirit means little and many leases have the legal clause in it for a reason such as minimal cost of such a cleaning can cost per hour.

What you are talking about is basic maintenance and a professional carpet cleaning is not that.

 

[waggy]

One of my son's landlords thought the exact same thing. Fortunately, my son understood the concept of taking pictures prior to moving in, and pictures after moving out. For example, there was some burnt on carbon on the stovetop that couldn't be cleaned off. Landlord was charging him for it. But, the pictures showed that it was cleaner when they moved out than when they moved in. Small claims court agreed - and since the landlord knew that they had a 1 month overlap with their new place - signed the new lease and it began 30 days before their lease expired - and knew that they were mostly moved into the new place, he sent them an email telling them to get the rest of their stuff out within so many more days (before the end of the month) because he had painters coming in and had the apartment leased out starting the first day of the next month - (this was before he had even inspected the place) - small claims court also prorated their rent for the last month and they got that back as well.

The funny thing was - the landlord took them to small claims for more money than the security deposit. Not only did the landlord not get more money, but the landlord also lost the entire security deposit AND half a month's rent.

some landlords are assholes like that. Years ago i sold my home and the deal for one i was supposed to move into fell through. so i moved into an apartment for 2 years.

I did the same when i moved in. had that days newspaper and took tons of photo's of the apartment.

Did the same when we moved out.

The landlord kept the deposit ($550) and sued us for 2k. he claimed we destroyed the carpet and minor stuff. WE had so many pictures plus we found the previous tenant (the people downstairs knew them really well so they were over often) WHO was sued for the carpet 2 years previous and LOST.

we went to court with all pictures showing it was not a new carpet, we had the last tenant with proof they had to pay for the carpet.

lol it was fun. but if not for taking so many pictures and dumb luck we would have lost $2550.



OP its a 8 yr old carpet. Unless he trashed them and they look good when he moves out. There is nothing you can do.

Proffesional carpet cleaners? bwhahahah sure.

 

[Greenman]

The lease say's cleaned, that's what the guy has to do. If you wanted something specific you should have asked for it. Cleaned generally implies the use of water, so it's reasonable to expect that, but he can rent a machine at the drug store and do it himself.

 

[twinrider1]

...What recourse do I have if he just vacuums and then sprays some fabreeze around to meet his definition of "cleaning"?...

None.

...This would arguably fulfill the lease...

And you agree.

On the other hand...

There is no other hand.

I'm going to wait it out...

That's all you can do. Asking for the receipt is a good bluff. It puts the ball in his court, forcing him to deny it. People don't generally like confrontation. And besides, a professional cleaning may have been his plan from day one. Quit wringing your hands over something that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Zee]

he can use a dustbuster or rent the prosteam cleaner at his supermarket and still fulfill your lease terms. period.

 

[Rage187]

3 years of a good tenant and you are going to try to pimp him out for pro cleaning service? Weak dude, weak.

this. consider yourself lucky and don't be a dick.

 

[surfsatwerk]

You should charge him for any build up in the hot water heater or wear and tear on the AC while your at it OP.

 

[nageov3t]

if, at the end of the lease, you can't tell whether or not the guy used a professional service or did it himself, you're out of luck.

if you can tell, just deduct the cost of carpet cleaning from his security deposit (though you may need to be prepared to argue in court that the damage was above and beyond 3 years of wear and tear... honestly, unless cleaning is going to cost you thousands of dollars or the carpets are utterly trashed, it's probably just not worth it)

 

[rudeguy]

this. consider yourself lucky and don't be a dick.

OP has proved in every single landlord thread that he is a dick.

He's a petty douche nozzle.

 

[Humpy]

It doesn't constitute cleaning in my book. For example, you can sweep a floor or grab a mop and actually wash it.

What is it (vacuuming) then? What does it do? If your position had any validity you would be able to answer the question.

I'm betting the tenant isn't a nickle-dick and will have them professionally cleaned anyway.

 

[Schfifty Five]

OP, how big of a place is he renting from you?

If it's small, then just do a professional cleaning of it yourself so YOU KNOW it is clean. I assume you will be renting it out again so why not have peace of mind by having the carpets cleaned on your dime? It's maybe $200 to get carpets cleaned. big whoop.

 

[edro]

I would expect him to vacuum and possibly rent a rug doctor and do it himself.
I do not think it is his responsibility to get them professionally cleaned, per the lease.

3 years and no trouble from the guy? Spend the $250 yourself and have Stanley Steamer clean the carpet.

 

[NetWareHead]

What is it (vacuuming) then? What does it do? If your position had any validity you would be able to answer the question.

I'm betting the tenant isn't a nickle-dick and will have them professionally cleaned anyway.

I posted a previous example comparing it to sweeping vs mopping a floor. You can vacuum a rug but it can still be dirty/stained. You can clean a rug and clean out everything that vacuuming misses.

 

[NetWareHead]

OP, how big of a place is he renting from you?

If it's small, then just do a professional cleaning of it yourself so YOU KNOW it is clean. I assume you will be renting it out again so why not have peace of mind by having the carpets cleaned on your dime? It's maybe $200 to get carpets cleaned. big whoop.

Its 1250 sq feet. The point is that he is supposed to clean it. Why should I have to spend my $$ when I allowed a cat to move with the promise that he would clean the carpets. Its a matter of principle that it is his agreed on responsibility and not mine.