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Advances in non-lethal defense make the 2nd amendment unnecessary

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JSt0rm said:
I'm confident that the tax dollars i spend for law enforcement with be used to stop any crazy people who think they need to fight tyranny with force.
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I think we agree that the "armed overthrow of the US government" is a silly fantasy. And that is one of the most cited justifications of the 2nd amendment.
 
karmypolitics said:
I think we agree that the "armed overthrow of the US government" is a silly fantasy. And that is one of the most cited justifications of the 2nd amendment.
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Once again this is a right. We don't need to justify it to you any more than we need to do so for our freedom of speech or rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Don't like it? Change the Constitution.
 
@Karmypolitiks: I assume the .gov/military would also need to adhere to using less than lethal weaponry? If your answer is no, why not?

Secondly, do you know what a right is, specifically one granted to its citizenry via the constitution and backed up by the Supreme Court?
 
davmat787 said:
@Karmypolitiks: I assume the .gov/military would also need to adhere to using less than lethal weaponry? If your answer is no, why not?

Secondly, do you know what a right is, specifically one granted to its citizenry via the constitution and backed up by the Supreme Court?
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as I said, law enforcement has been making major investments in non-lethal weapons over the last decade or so. The military doesn't interact with citizens on the street of course.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
We are the ones who have the 2nd Amendment and we don't need your approval. We don't need to justify ourselves, and that we have rights is something you can't stand. Sucks to be you.
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I dont care if you have guns.

Gay people dont need your approval to get married and women dont need your approval to get a abortion.

We are even. 😎
 
Well, subduing a perp armed with a firearm with something non-lethal is, IMO, a risk I would rather not take. If the perp's firearm has more range and accuracy over my non-lethal weapon, then I'm at a disadvantage that I would rather avoid. I would definetely want superior weaponry on my side. Especially if the situation turns into a scenario where I am compelled to defend myself with deadly force without the means to do it.

Moreso, I think a perp would take more risks and be more bold knowing the only thing that's going to happen to him/her is getting bruised or shocked into submission.

I would prefer to use non-lethal force where possible, but I'd also like to know that in any given encounter, I'd have the upper hand WRT firepower and righteous cause. I don't like the idea of someone dying unnecessarily by my hand, nor do I think any sane person would with theirs, but if I'm ordered to subdue a perp with me being armed with a shotgun loaded with beanbags, then the perp had better be armed with something less efffective than that, preferrably a very noisy mouth and a teddy bear in each hand.
 
shortylickens said:
THE OP IS A TROLL!


What part are you not understanding?
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But he's such a good one. Well there's no sense letting a gun thread go to waste.

gng9.jpg
 
as an aside while all of the gun nuts are foaming at the mouth...

Are their any airsoft guns that are metal and feel exactly like a real gun? I want to get one for the studio for foley but dont like the idea of having a real gun around.
 
JSt0rm said:
as an aside while all of the gun nuts are foaming at the mouth...
Are their any airsoft guns that are metal and feel exactly like a real gun? I want to get one for the studio for foley but dont like the idea of having a real gun around.
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Don't you need something that sounds like a real gun for foley?

edit: get a real gun and remove the firing pin.
 
tweaker2 said:
Well, subduing a perp armed with a firearm with something non-lethal is, IMO, a risk I would rather not take. If the perp's firearm has more range and accuracy over my non-lethal weapon, then I'm at a disadvantage that I would rather avoid. I would definetely want superior weaponry on my side. Especially if the situation turns into a scenario where I am compelled to defend myself with deadly force without the means to do it.

Moreso, I think a perp would take more risks and be more bold knowing the only thing that's going to happen to him/her is getting bruised or shocked into submission.

I would prefer to use non-lethal force where possible, but I'd also like to know that in any given encounter, I'd have the upper hand WRT firepower and righteous cause. I don't like the idea of someone dying unnecessarily by my hand, nor do I think any sane person would with theirs, but if I'm ordered to subdue a perp with me being armed with a shotgun loaded with beanbags, then the perp had better be armed with something less efffective than that, preferrably a very noisy mouth and a teddy bear in each hand.
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that's the problem. you see, you imagine the worst possible scenario instead of the realistic scenario.
 
CallMeJoe said:
Don't you need something that sounds like a real gun for foley?
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Not really. lol. The gunshots I have covered. 12 mic recordings on a gun range have that covered pretty much.

This is more for that metal sound as they move the gun around. Id probably loosen the gun up as much as possible so it made even more noise but a metal airsoft to scale gun would be cool.
 
JSt0rm said:
Not really. lol. The gunshots I have covered. 12 mic recordings on a gun range have that covered pretty much.

This is more for that metal sound as they move the gun around. Id probably loosen the gun up as much as possible so it made even more noise but a metal airsoft to scale gun would be cool.
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I thought you were looking for something to produce the mechanical sounds of slides, hammers, etc.
 
CallMeJoe said:
I thought you were looking for something to produce the mechanical sounds of slides, hammers, etc.
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No I have those too, from real guns. I want something that will make that gun rattle sound Hollywood is known for, that I'm sure you all hate.
 
karmypolitics said:
I'm just making a point, sir. non-lethal defense systems have made great advancements in recent years. Law enforcement in particular has been big on it as of late. It is also an interesting way to sidestep the debate. You can have effective self-defense without carrying around a murder tool.
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A gun used in self-defense is not a murder tool.
 
MotF Bane said:
A gun used in self-defense is not a murder tool.
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Yes it is. You are threatening death or severe injury to the other guy.

Since the number one objective in self defense should be to get away from the attacker.

I do admit that my theory breaks down when talking about store owners in inner cities. THey I do feel have a legitimate need for firearms.
 
karmypolitics said:
Let's take a hypothetical. Bernie Goetz.

What if instead of a gun he had had a can of mace instead?

The answer: he probably would have gotten away from this potential mugging okay. He would not have had any court trouble. The four young men who were criminal at the time would not have had this amount of pain inflicted on them.
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New York fucked up the Second Amendment in the first place. He never should have been charged with anything, and it's a shame those punks lived, and that their civil suit wasn't tossed out.
 
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