Advances in non-lethal defense make the 2nd amendment unnecessary

[CallMeJoe]

Yes it is. You are threatening death or severe injury to the other guy.
Since the number one objective in self defense should be to get away from the attacker.
I do admit that my theory breaks down when talking about store owners in inner cities. THey I do feel have a legitimate need for firearms.

In the case of a home invasion, should my objective to flee my home and leave my family to fend for themselves against the intruders?

 

[micrometers]

In the case of a home invasion, should my objective to flee my home and leave my family to fend for themselves against the intruders?

In the event of a home invasion you could incapacitate someone using non-lethal force. If you're truly worried you could invest in one of those home monitoring services that have police show up within 5 minutes.

 

[MotF Bane]

Yes it is. You are threatening death or severe injury to the other guy.

Since the number one objective in self defense should be to get away from the attacker.

I do admit that my theory breaks down when talking about store owners in inner cities. THey I do feel have a legitimate need for firearms.

Wrong. The number one objective in self defense is your own safety/survival.

Running away is not a very good solution, because you have no idea if they can run faster than you. If you're woman wearing high heels facing a potential rapist, you will not outrun him. As for in your own home, absolutely you have no cause to run away, besides, depending on where you live, you might not have an escape option behind you. Hold your ground, you have them in visual contact, there's no chase, there's no "oh god where is he?", just shoot him and be done with it.

Your theory doesn't just break down, it never was viable in the first place.

 

[CallMeJoe]

In the event of a home invasion you could incapacitate someone using non-lethal force. If you're truly worried you could invest in one of those home monitoring services that have police show up within 5 minutes.

There is little chance of a five-minute response in my rural area, and your non-lethal solutions are far less than optimal if there is more than one intruder.

 

[MotF Bane]

In the event of a home invasion you could incapacitate someone using non-lethal force. If you're truly worried you could invest in one of those home monitoring services that have police show up within 5 minutes.

When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away. Not a good solution. You don't know if the intruder(s) have help with them. You don't know how fast they will recover. You have a house to secure, a family to locate and unify in one safe location, and all the while, with your non-lethal solution, the intruders are recovering. Do it with a gun, and they won't be recovering.

 

[trenchfoot]

Don't you need something that sounds like a real gun for foley?

edit: get a real gun and remove the firing pin.

And have the barrel plug-welded shut. Also, I think a properly disabled gun or a purposed replica is preferrable over a model made by Mattel® as it's pretty obvious to recognize the difference in how they're handled due to the weight difference between them.

As an aside, you know what really cracks me up? Occasionally in movies, after a gunfight of any sort, the camera would zoom in really close to some smoking spent brass and they'd all have crimped mouths on them.

 

[micrometers]

When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away. Not a good solution. You don't know if the intruder(s) have help with them. You don't know how fast they will recover. You have a house to secure, a family to locate and unify in one safe location, and all the while, with your non-lethal solution, the intruders are recovering. Do it with a gun, and they won't be recovering.

seconds matter. lol. you're not being attacked by elite special forces. you're not important. Most likely an intruder is some dumb teenager poking around (there are many stories of elderly shooting dead some dumb teenager who trespassed for fun).

 

[NeoV]

Karmy, enough now, you have just become progressively silly in this thread

"most likely an intruder is some dumb teenager poking around" - /facepalm

 

[micrometers]

Karmy, enough now, you have just become progressively silly in this thread

"most likely an intruder is some dumb teenager poking around" - /facepalm

Here's an example:

http://www.decaturdaily.com/stories/Teen-burglary-suspect-killed,42806

14 year old kid does something stupid. Gets shot dead.

yadda yadda he was breaking the law etc. Non-lethal force would have been more appropriate in the situation.

 

[MotF Bane]

seconds matter. lol. you're not being attacked by elite special forces. you're not important. Most likely an intruder is some dumb teenager poking around (there are many stories of elderly shooting dead some dumb teenager who trespassed for fun).

That is completely ridiculous. Yes, seconds do matter, and to say otherwise is pure ignorance. It takes just seconds to kill someone with your bare hands, and less with a blade or any other weapon really. Most likely, the intruder is a criminal, seeking jewelry, small electronics, or cash, and has already decided before entering that they will kill you to make their escape if you interrupt them.

 

[MotF Bane]

Here's an example:

http://www.decaturdaily.com/stories/Teen-burglary-suspect-killed,42806

14 year old kid does something stupid. Gets shot dead.

yadda yadda he was breaking the law etc. Non-lethal force would have been more appropriate in the situation.

Burglary. That's a crime. And if he weren't armed and confronted them, do you suppose the three would run away? Or would they have attacked him to eliminate a witness? There's no way the homeowner could know that, so he defended himself and his property, which is completely justified.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away. Not a good solution. You don't know if the intruder(s) have help with them. You don't know how fast they will recover. You have a house to secure, a family to locate and unify in one safe location, and all the while, with your non-lethal solution, the intruders are recovering. Do it with a gun, and they won't be recovering.

He doesn't care.

The proper tactic is to keep everyone safe and don't go hunting. If someone comes after you then they aren't looking for directions. You protect you and yours. Shotguns are the best solution.

 

[micrometers]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7557222&page=1#.TziQSVFfZ8k

The Muhs are currently being held on charges of aggravated assault for allegedly firing at least two shotgun blasts at a pair of packed cars that stopped outside their rural Texas house. Those charges are expected to be upgraded to murder, since a 7-year-old boy who was wounded in the assault has died from shotgun pellets to his head and face.

 

[MotF Bane]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7557222&page=1#.TziQSVFfZ8k

That's not self-defense. That's a couple crazy people committing crimes.

 

[micrometers]

That's not self-defense. That's a couple crazy people committing crimes.

The point is that they thought they were defending their property from trespassers or whatever.

 

[MotF Bane]

The point is that they thought they were defending their property from trespassers or whatever.

No, the point is that they're both unstable, insane, and criminals.

 

[micrometers]

No, the point is that they're both unstable, insane, and criminals.

well, isn't it better that people like that don't have shotguns? before they kill a 7 year old boy? Better to violate their rights and take away their guns I think.

 

[MotF Bane]

well, isn't it better that people like that don't have shotguns? before they kill a 7 year old boy? Better to violate their rights and take away their guns I think.

So you admit that taking away guns is violating rights. Thanks, we're done here.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

well, isn't it better that people like that don't have shotguns? before they kill a 7 year old boy? Better to violate their rights and take away their guns I think.

Here's a bit of violation here.
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/12/second-dallas-murder-linked-to.html

But it's good the people killed didn't have a gun to defend themselves.

 

[micrometers]

So you admit that taking away guns is violating rights. Thanks, we're done here.

More like I'm saying it shouldn't be a right. which is the point of the thread. It is a right currently. It should not be a right.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So you admit that taking away guns is violating rights. Thanks, we're done here.

Well he never said he cared about rights. That pesky piece of paper called the Constitution is just trash to him unless it suits his agenda. Why should those in power be restricted by rules?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

More like I'm saying it shouldn't be a right. which is the point of the thread. It is a right currently. It should not be a right.

Then go change the Constitution, unless you think that you are above it, which it seems.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Oh and congrats for giving people a reason to vote for Romney.

 

[micrometers]

Then go change the Constitution, unless you think that you are above it, which it seems.

Yes, I am advocating in this thread that it should be amended to eliminate the 2nd amendment. That is consistent with the entire thread.

 

[Ackmed]

I'm just making a point, sir. non-lethal defense systems have made great advancements in recent years. Law enforcement in particular has been big on it as of late. It is also an interesting way to sidestep the debate. You can have effective self-defense without carrying around a murder tool.

You're a clueless tool. I think even you have to know that.

Two weeks ago one of our Officers got called out to Walmart's loss prevention office. Someone tried to steal light bulbs. Long story short, the perp drew a gun, and our Officer shot and killed him. According to you, he should have used his pepper spray. Ever hear of not bringing a knife to a gun fight?

Even if all Police Officer's used only pepper spray and tasers, do you really think the bad guys would do the same? Our tasers are good for 25 feet, much less than any pistol or rifle is good for. Again, you're clueless.