Adults being required to wear helmets on motorcycles?

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Perknose

YOU not wearing your helmet is a cost I shouldn't be made to subsidize!!

Duh🙂 get rid of the subsidy if that's your problem, not steal freedom.

That's the ideal solution, but easier said than done . . .

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Georgia requires helmets. Florida went back and forth recently and settled on a Policy that you can go Helmetless if you carry an extra $10,000 Insurance Premium.

Current Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco just put a Helmet Law into place by repealing the Law by the previous Governor that allowed riders to Helmetless.

EMS workers call the Helmets "Brain Catchers" because all it does is contain the Brain Matter from being splattered all over the place, the end result does not change of dead rider.

Just more of Government telling us what we can and more and more of what we cannot do.

:thumbsup:

I think it was this exact same topic that brought me back to posting at AT earlier this year. We do not need *more* micromanagement of our lives by the government or anyone else. I'll never understand why some of you people are so eager and willing to give up any and all freedoms and rights to the governement, simply because "they know what's right."

Is riding without a helmet stupid? Yes. Is driving without a seatbelt stupid? Yes. Should our employees (you know, the people we elect and pay to serve us) dictate our individual behaviours to us? Hell no.

And by some of you guys' weird "accident cleanup" logic, we should make laws demanding *everyone* use doormats to wipe the mud/dirt off their shoes so those cleaning crews don't have to sweep up your mess. Also getting rid of skydiving, since someone would have to clean up after an "accident" there, as well. :roll:

If I didn't think some of you were so intelligent, I'd swear it was nothing more than a case of jealously. Yeah, you wear your seatbelts and helmets because it's the *smart* thing to do, but that's just not enough. If you see someone acting stupid, you want to *punish* them somehow, by making them act the same way you do. After all, it's not fair that you have to act responsible and sensible, while other people get to be reckless and wild, right? By that same logic, we should make laws that dictate how much alcohol everyone can consume in a single 24-hour period, since some people are responsible enough to say when, or simply can't handle their liquor. Better make it fair! Or how about how attractive a woman you can date, since some people care more about personality or can't land a "10."

It starts to sound a bit like socialism, after a while. And there are no political lines here; both sides are just as guilty - Repubs with their "moral" issues, and Demos with their "punish the rich" mantra.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Georgia requires helmets. Florida went back and forth recently and settled on a Policy that you can go Helmetless if you carry an extra $10,000 Insurance Premium.

Current Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco just put a Helmet Law into place by repealing the Law by the previous Governor that allowed riders to Helmetless.

EMS workers call the Helmets "Brain Catchers" because all it does is contain the Brain Matter from being splattered all over the place, the end result does not change of dead rider.

Just more of Government telling us what we can and more and more of what we cannot do.

:thumbsup:

I think it was this exact same topic that brought me back to posting at AT earlier this year. We do not need *more* micromanagement of our lives by the government or anyone else. I'll never understand why some of you people are so eager and willing to give up any and all freedoms and rights to the governement, simply because "they know what's right."

Is riding without a helmet stupid? Yes. Is driving without a seatbelt stupid? Yes. Should our employees (you know, the people we elect and pay to serve us) dictate our individual behaviours to us? Hell no.

And by some of you guys' weird "accident cleanup" logic, we should make laws demanding *everyone* use doormats to wipe the mud/dirt off their shoes so those cleaning crews don't have to sweep up your mess. Also getting rid of skydiving, since someone would have to clean up after an "accident" there, as well. :roll:

If I didn't think some of you were so intelligent, I'd swear it was nothing more than a case of jealously. Yeah, you wear your seatbelts and helmets because it's the *smart* thing to do, but that's just not enough. If you see someone acting stupid, you want to *punish* them somehow, by making them act the same way you do. After all, it's not fair that you have to act responsible and sensible, while other people get to be reckless and wild, right? By that same logic, we should make laws that dictate how much alcohol everyone can consume in a single 24-hour period, since some people are responsible enough to say when, or simply can't handle their liquor. Better make it fair! Or how about how attractive a woman you can date, since some people care more about personality or can't land a "10."

It starts to sound a bit like socialism, after a while. And there are no political lines here; both sides are just as guilty - Repubs with their "moral" issues, and Demos with their "punish the rich" mantra.

I have no problem with someone that wants to kill themselves by not wearing a seatbelt or a helmet. That is fine by me. However, their medical bills, the use of public resources, and all the other services they tie up DOES cost me. It costs me in tax money or if they have insurance in the premiums I pay.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Mill
I have no problem with someone that wants to kill themselves by not wearing a seatbelt or a helmet. That is fine by me. However, their medical bills, the use of public resources, and all the other services they tie up DOES cost me. It costs me in tax money or if they have insurance in the premiums I pay.

So, with all these new seatbelt and helmet laws, have you seen your taxes and insurance premiums significantly decrease?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Mill
I have no problem with someone that wants to kill themselves by not wearing a seatbelt or a helmet. That is fine by me. However, their medical bills, the use of public resources, and all the other services they tie up DOES cost me. It costs me in tax money or if they have insurance in the premiums I pay.

So, with all these new seatbelt and helmet laws, have you seen your taxes and insurance premiums significantly decrease?

Fallacy.

 

[Grunt03]

I think it should have an age requirement.
At the same time I would also say that for those who do not wear a helmet
then their insurence company should not have to pay.......

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Georgia requires helmets. Florida went back and forth recently and settled on a Policy that you can go Helmetless if you carry an extra $10,000 Insurance Premium.

Current Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco just put a Helmet Law into place by repealing the Law by the previous Governor that allowed riders to Helmetless.

EMS workers call the Helmets "Brain Catchers" because all it does is contain the Brain Matter from being splattered all over the place, the end result does not change of dead rider.

Just more of Government telling us what we can and more and more of what we cannot do.

:thumbsup:

I think it was this exact same topic that brought me back to posting at AT earlier this year. We do not need *more* micromanagement of our lives by the government or anyone else. I'll never understand why some of you people are so eager and willing to give up any and all freedoms and rights to the governement, simply because "they know what's right."

Is riding without a helmet stupid? Yes. Is driving without a seatbelt stupid? Yes. Should our employees (you know, the people we elect and pay to serve us) dictate our individual behaviours to us? Hell no.

And by some of you guys' weird "accident cleanup" logic, we should make laws demanding *everyone* use doormats to wipe the mud/dirt off their shoes so those cleaning crews don't have to sweep up your mess. Also getting rid of skydiving, since someone would have to clean up after an "accident" there, as well. :roll:

If I didn't think some of you were so intelligent, I'd swear it was nothing more than a case of jealously. Yeah, you wear your seatbelts and helmets because it's the *smart* thing to do, but that's just not enough. If you see someone acting stupid, you want to *punish* them somehow, by making them act the same way you do. After all, it's not fair that you have to act responsible and sensible, while other people get to be reckless and wild, right? By that same logic, we should make laws that dictate how much alcohol everyone can consume in a single 24-hour period, since some people are responsible enough to say when, or simply can't handle their liquor. Better make it fair! Or how about how attractive a woman you can date, since some people care more about personality or can't land a "10."

It starts to sound a bit like socialism, after a while. And there are no political lines here; both sides are just as guilty - Repubs with their "moral" issues, and Demos with their "punish the rich" mantra.

Thanks Gunny

I thought you were on the FLL side???

Anyway well, looks like we are alone in feeling that U.S. Govt shouldn't have the right to "Micro Manage" us.

The Sheeple have spoken. :thumbsdown:

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Georgia requires helmets. Florida went back and forth recently and settled on a Policy that you can go Helmetless if you carry an extra $10,000 Insurance Premium.

Current Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco just put a Helmet Law into place by repealing the Law by the previous Governor that allowed riders to Helmetless.

EMS workers call the Helmets "Brain Catchers" because all it does is contain the Brain Matter from being splattered all over the place, the end result does not change of dead rider.

Just more of Government telling us what we can and more and more of what we cannot do.

:thumbsup:

I think it was this exact same topic that brought me back to posting at AT earlier this year. We do not need *more* micromanagement of our lives by the government or anyone else. I'll never understand why some of you people are so eager and willing to give up any and all freedoms and rights to the governement, simply because "they know what's right."

Is riding without a helmet stupid? Yes. Is driving without a seatbelt stupid? Yes. Should our employees (you know, the people we elect and pay to serve us) dictate our individual behaviours to us? Hell no.

And by some of you guys' weird "accident cleanup" logic, we should make laws demanding *everyone* use doormats to wipe the mud/dirt off their shoes so those cleaning crews don't have to sweep up your mess. Also getting rid of skydiving, since someone would have to clean up after an "accident" there, as well. :roll:

If I didn't think some of you were so intelligent, I'd swear it was nothing more than a case of jealously. Yeah, you wear your seatbelts and helmets because it's the *smart* thing to do, but that's just not enough. If you see someone acting stupid, you want to *punish* them somehow, by making them act the same way you do. After all, it's not fair that you have to act responsible and sensible, while other people get to be reckless and wild, right? By that same logic, we should make laws that dictate how much alcohol everyone can consume in a single 24-hour period, since some people are responsible enough to say when, or simply can't handle their liquor. Better make it fair! Or how about how attractive a woman you can date, since some people care more about personality or can't land a "10."

It starts to sound a bit like socialism, after a while. And there are no political lines here; both sides are just as guilty - Repubs with their "moral" issues, and Demos with their "punish the rich" mantra.

I have no problem with someone that wants to kill themselves by not wearing a seatbelt or a helmet. That is fine by me. However, their medical bills, the use of public resources, and all the other services they tie up DOES cost me. It costs me in tax money or if they have insurance in the premiums I pay.

I understand you concern for the cost being pushed back onto the taxpayer(I, for one, sure as hell don't want to pay for anyones stupidity), but I'd like to see some evidence that wearing a helmet actually cost less than no helmet. I would think that the ones that survive a motorcycle accident will still incure a bunch of medical care, and that not wearing a helmet would put a bunch of these people in the ground which is by far alot cheaper than hospital care. They have got to have some sort of study that pertains to the overall average cost of an accident w/ helmet vs. w/o helmet.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Here in Texas they don't have to wear helmets, which is fine with me - if they choose to kill themslves.
But it does make the streets harder to clean up after all the bullshit leaks out on the pavement.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Mill
I have no problem with someone that wants to kill themselves by not wearing a seatbelt or a helmet. That is fine by me. However, their medical bills, the use of public resources, and all the other services they tie up DOES cost me. It costs me in tax money or if they have insurance in the premiums I pay.

So, with all these new seatbelt and helmet laws, have you seen your taxes and insurance premiums significantly decrease?

Fallacy.

Howso? In that case, I've got a great selection of "protective amulets" to sell you. How about this nice red one - it prevents rabid polar bears from attacking you. Hand to God - I've owned this thing for 10 years and I've *never* been attacked by any bear of any sorts. :laugh:

Seriously, have you seen any cause/effect relationship between increased governmental "meddling" and your personal finances? If anything, the bigger and more powerful the government becomes, the more of your hard-earned money it needs to fuel itself. What benefits do you think you reap from those $100+ "No seatbelt/helmet" fines?

 

[Pliablemoose]

There are many studies linking the increased incidence of traumatic brain injury & not wearing a helmet, but if you stop & think about it for one moment, it's a no brainer, but for the doubting Thomases:


Motorcycle Helmets and Traumatic Brain Injury in Kentucky, 1995-2000

The lack of helmet useage is one of the most powerful factory, even more powerful than alcohol intoxication, in predicting who sustains a traumatic brain injury in motorcycle crashes

Snell Foundation/John Hopkins Injury prevention center bicycle study

# Helmets are needed because head injuries in bicyclists are noted in:

* 65,000 emergency room cases and 7,700 hospital admissions annually
* about 40% of bicyclists admitted to hospitals
* an estimated 70% to 80% of fatally injured bicyclists

Bicyclists hospitalized with head injuries are 20 times as likely to die as those without.

EVERY argument against helmets is BS.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
There are many studies linking the increased incidence of traumatic brain injury & not wearing a helmet, but if you stop & think about it for one moment, it's a no brainer, but for the doubting Thomases:


Motorcycle Helmets and Traumatic Brain Injury in Kentucky, 1995-2000

The lack of helmet useage is one of the most powerful factory, even more powerful than alcohol intoxication, in predicting who sustains a traumatic brain injury in motorcycle crashes

Snell Foundation/John Hopkins Injury prevention center bicycle study

# Helmets are needed because head injuries in bicyclists are noted in:

* 65,000 emergency room cases and 7,700 hospital admissions annually
* about 40% of bicyclists admitted to hospitals
* an estimated 70% to 80% of fatally injured bicyclists

Bicyclists hospitalized with head injuries are 20 times as likely to die as those without.

EVERY argument against helmets is BS.

I tend to agree with you PM. However, there's a very big difference between being against helmets and being against forced useage of them.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

EVERY argument against helmets is BS.

There should be no "argument" when it comes to "Freedom".

 

[cronos]

yes please.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

EVERY argument against helmets is BS.

There should be no "argument" when it comes to "Freedom".

I say if the rider who choses not to wear a helmet also carries enough insurance to cover thier care for the remainder of their life in a vegatative state after a traumatic brain injury, I'm all for it.

Also, if you noticed, helmets became optional when our state senators started buying/riding Harleys.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Mill
I have no problem with someone that wants to kill themselves by not wearing a seatbelt or a helmet. That is fine by me. However, their medical bills, the use of public resources, and all the other services they tie up DOES cost me. It costs me in tax money or if they have insurance in the premiums I pay.

So, with all these new seatbelt and helmet laws, have you seen your taxes and insurance premiums significantly decrease?

Fallacy.

Howso? In that case, I've got a great selection of "protective amulets" to sell you. How about this nice red one - it prevents rabid polar bears from attacking you. Hand to God - I've owned this thing for 10 years and I've *never* been attacked by any bear of any sorts. :laugh:

Seriously, have you seen any cause/effect relationship between increased governmental "meddling" and your personal finances? If anything, the bigger and more powerful the government becomes, the more of your hard-earned money it needs to fuel itself. What benefits do you think you reap from those $100+ "No seatbelt/helmet" fines?

You presuppose that an insurance company will pass savings on to policyholders, and somehow think they are not a business. You also presuppose that the government would EVER return our tax dollars when not used. That's the fallacy of your argument. I don't give a flying fvck if you wear a helmet or not, but if it costs me tax money or causes my insurance to rise then I do. Please please please don't wear one and run your bike under an eighteen-wheeler. It really will make me feel better.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Here in Texas they don't have to wear helmets, which is fine with me - if they choose to kill themslves.
But it does make the streets harder to clean up after all the bullshit leaks out on the pavement.

hehe:thumbsup:

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

EVERY argument against helmets is BS.

There should be no "argument" when it comes to "Freedom".

I say if the rider who choses not to wear a helmet also carries enough insurance to cover thier care for the remainder of their life in a vegatative state after a traumatic brain injury, I'm all for it.

Also, if you noticed, helmets became optional when our state senators started buying/riding Harleys.

I'm suprised they did'nt just exempt *themselves* from the law like our US congresscritters do for certain laws they pass..

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
There are many studies linking the increased incidence of traumatic brain injury & not wearing a helmet, but if you stop & think about it for one moment, it's a no brainer, but for the doubting Thomases:

...

EVERY argument against helmets is BS.

BS on that. I'm both a motorcyclist and bicyclist and always wear my helment - not because the law says to, but because I value my noggin. I don't care about the studies showing that wearing a helmet can save lives. So can: not smoking, not drinking, exercising daily, eating healthy, etc., but do you see laws banning all smoking, drinking; laws forcing people to exercise daily and eat 3-4 servings of vegetables a day? You can't have freedom if you don't have choice. Besides, I believe that people who are dumb enough to not wear a helmet then die in an accident are doing us all a favor by removing their genes from our pool.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
There are many studies linking the increased incidence of traumatic brain injury & not wearing a helmet, but if you stop & think about it for one moment, it's a no brainer, but for the doubting Thomases:

...

EVERY argument against helmets is BS.

BS on that. I'm both a motorcyclist and bicyclist and always wear my helment - not because the law says to, but because I value my noggin. I don't care about the studies showing that wearing a helmet can save lives. So can: not smoking, not drinking, exercising daily, eating healthy, etc., but do you see laws banning all smoking, drinking; laws forcing people to exercise daily and eat 3-4 servings of vegetables a day? You can't have freedom if you don't have choice. Besides, I believe that people who are dumb enough to not wear a helmet then die in an accident are doing us all a favor by removing their genes from our pool.

Werd. I bet studies woould show wearing a 4 pt seat belt and a helmet while DRIVEING would also reduce injury..don't see soccer moms rushing that law to be passed. Simple fact here is motorcyclists are extreme minorities so it's easy pickins to attack thier freedom.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
One of the roles of governemtn is to protect it's citizens, even the ones stupid enough to ride a motor cycle ithout a helmet. it should be a law and not jsut to wear helmets, but it should be required to have a full face mask that covers he entire head. None of that helmet/cap sh!t.

if you want to wear a helmet fine. But the government has no role in forcing you to wear a helmet or forcing you to do anything at all. You are your own person and responsible for your own health, safety, and life. The government is not a tool to allow the likes of you to rule over others.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: BDawg
If it saves additional time and money from lower rescue worker need, I'm all for it.

If not wearing a helmet only affected the lives of those too stupid to wear one, I'd let them thin out the herd.

problem is that some dude who didn't ware a helmet and now has head injury is going to be in front of you in the triage when it comes time for you to get your emergency treatment.

Are you against seatbelt laws as well?

on a basic moral level.

but we all make sacrifices for the good of society.

I've also come to the conclusion that riding motorcycles is an inherently unsafe act & stopped riding.

like mountain climbing, eh?

motorcycle riding license should require that the user be 24 years of age and complete at least 40 hours of on-the-road instruction.

You think you can get injured and the government will just cover all your medical expenses?

when "no one" pays for it

That?s BS nobody pays for their care.

then everyone pays for it.

I hope everyone that is against laws forcing people to wear helmets is also against the drug war.

social constraints that we enact to keep the society healthy and safe.

they work on the same line of thinking, i agree, but you can be for one law and not the other for other reasons.

but do you see laws banning all smoking, drinking; laws forcing people to exercise daily and eat 3-4 servings of vegetables a day?

differing principles apply, you're coming from the point of view that you've got a right to ride a motor cycle, which you don't.

Simple fact here is motorcyclists are extreme minorities so it's easy pickings to attack their freedom.

nope. 🙂

 

[Pliablemoose]

The mountain climbing analogy is fairly accurate if you add in 90 year olds and soccer moms on cell phones in Suburbans watching DVD's while yelling at their kids sharing the mountain with you.

Stopping riding wasn't about my skill level, it was about the other driver's skill levels.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Been saved from injury by helmets on both motorbikes and Mountain Bikes. Been saved from more serious injury by a Seatbelt in a car.

Calling the 'Freedom' card is ignorant.

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Been saved from injury by helmets on both motorbikes and Mountain Bikes. Been saved from more serious injury by a Seatbelt in a car.

Calling the 'Freedom' card is ignorant.

B.S. It's not about how many lives can be saved! Why can't people see that? They think that if a law can save lives, then it's worth passing. Absolute nonsense. Most of us here laugh/complain when we see stupid "protect the children" laws that suspend 10-year old girls for doing cartwheels (too dangerous), replace fun playground equipment with boring plastic stuff, etc., etc. How about laws against being sedentary, or against eating fast-food? Obesity injures and kills more people than those not wearing a helmet.

Governent's role is not to protect people from themselves. As I posted before, I've crashed both my motorcycle and bicycle several times and wearing a helmet has saved my life. In fact, I even wear the geeky, bright-orange reflector vest on top of my cool black biker gear because I want cars to be able to see me. There's no law that says you have to wear it (with the exception of military bases that have much stricter regulations on motorcycle riding), but I do since it's a safety issue.

Those who are for laws to require all motorcyclists to wear helmets are the same ones who are for banning our guns. Both want to exert control over others.