Actual message from Sr Engineering Manager to IT Department

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: So
This thread is the biggest cock waving fest that AT has had in a long time.

<leaves>

*waves cock* IT people have larger penises than engineers.....

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
No, not really. IT has their own managers, finance, and engineering people in big corporations. If the new hire from finance or engineering tries to boss THEM around, they will get put in their place pretty quickly.

Besides, no one in their right mind would try to pull rank on an IT guy like that. We're usually the only people in the company with full read/write access to everyone's data, and umm... "Accidents" tend to happen to people who piss us off

Simon? Is that you?!

But every company does indeed have a pecking order. At my company:
Management>people that were in the "old 14" (see below)>Sales and marketing>production management>engineering>IT>field service>everyone else but the cleanroom people>cleanroom people

The "old 14" are people that I refer to that are the 14 people that were "with the company" when they bought the portion of the company that had 300 people. Upper management sees these people as people that can do no wrong, even when proven wrong. (note: Frys is NOT a good place to go when spec'ing out components (ie: monitors, videocards...) for a medical device that is going to be made for atleast a decade)

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: beer

Originally posted by: Phoenix86
I have supported software engineers.

edit: they don't know sh!t about the OS or hardware...

And they still probably make more $$ than you. Some things are more important, and I love it when IT folk shoot these across the forums to stroke their ego.

Heh, actually no. They drove the company into the ground with sh!tty software. They really didn't know WTF they were doing. Now, I'm not a programmer, but I *use* programs and I can follow general trends.

It hasn't been since the DOS DB days since I saw a DB structure where there were thousands of 1-4k files as opposed to a couple of large DB files.

Now I don't know the programming side, but I know what a nightmare accessing all those files is. I also understand the drain on the I/O that causes. They didn't.

When the HDD got a tad bit fragmented the software started performing like shat. After spending weeks diaging it they sent the PC in for repair. 30-45 minutes later it was running like a champ after I defragged it. When I took a look at the program structure and asked them how those files were generated, they explained how the DB would read/delete/write those small files over and over.

When I explained what that did the the FS they went

One of these guys was a "senior programmer".

Most of them lost their H-1B status and moved back to India, others took McJobs to stay here. Some found other programming jobs, not many...

Thanks for asking first. I love it when people shoot across these forums and make assumptions. :beer:

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by: beer

Originally posted by: Phoenix86
I have supported software engineers.

edit: they don't know sh!t about the OS or hardware...

And they still probably make more $$ than you. Some things are more important, and I love it when IT folk shoot these across the forums to stroke their ego.

haha, owned!

 

[40Hands]

I work in the IT dept. at a law firm.

 

[GasX]

This thread amuses me since most IT departments I have known have their collective heads further up their asses than any department other than HR...

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: Mwilding
This thread amuses me since most IT departments I have known have their collective heads further up their asses than any department other than HR...

Does anyone ever take an HR department seriously?

 

[733SHiFTY]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth


Does anyone ever take an HR department seriously?

no, but then the same goes for management.

I think all technical fields really have a mind of their own, because the average person has a hard time comprehending what they do.

example: ever try explaining a project or job you are working on to someone who isnt in your field?

 

[PawNtheSandman]

Here is an idea, how about instead of bitching about them, why not use Active Directory to set up a Engineer group and have their user accounts placed in said group. Then after a meeting with them, configure the group with the proper permissions needed for them to do their job.

:Q

They are wrong for being elitist pricks who want "Admin access"
and your are wrong for not knowing how to do your job.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: Mwilding
This thread amuses me since most IT departments I have known have their collective heads further up their asses than any department other than HR...

Does anyone ever take an HR department seriously?

People in HR.

 

[Joemonkey]

Originally posted by: BroeBo
I work in the IT dept. at a law firm.

i am the IT deptartment at a law firm

 

[dhslammer]

DISCALIMER:
The folowing contains vast generalizations.


But I digress...

{me}Dawns velvet asbestos leisure suit and wades back in....{/me}

Originally posted by: dhslammer
edit: Hidden amongst an email request for the admin password was this gem, apparently designed to allay any fears that an engineer might screw the pooch:

"The engineering department understands the technicalities of computers and networks and absolutely would not jeopardize the integrity of the network by doing dumb things."

Of course not.

Does anyone else here support Engineers in an IT capacity? Then you feel my pain. THe only thing worse is supporting lawyers.

Wanted to share a good chuckle with you guys. That is all.

A little more background:
This comes from one of our regional offices that is not properly staffed with competent IT personnel. I get to pull apart the parties involved, hose them down with cold water and let them in on a little reality check. Both parties are at fault.

This "gem" was part of a much longer email and was therefore taken out of context. There is a lot more to this but I thought I would post this here for the IT folk to chuckle and expected the engineers to come in strong, which you have.




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Originally posted by: MrBond
But we ARE perfect

Spoken like a true engineer, you bring glory to your family.

------------------------------------

Originally posted by: Queasy
What kind of engineers are these by the way?

ME

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Originally posted by: Yossarian
we're wicked smart.

That was never in question. However, all power has the equal potential to be used for good or evil.

------------------------------------

Originally posted by: Rogue
Think engineers are tough, try Colonels and Generals in the military. They equate the entire system with guns. It either shoots, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, people might die so it better damn well be fixed.

You got me there, no experience with the military.

------------------------------------

IT is a support industry. You're only job is to make sure others can do theirs. If you don't like it, find a new line of work.

You are likely an engineer. Your statment is true and I firmly believe that.


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Originally posted by: Martin
Oh please, don't get me started on you people.

I told our worthless IT department that I need SQL server 4 weeks ago and a second monitor 2 weeks ago. Neither of them has arrived and it'll be a while before they get there. How fscking hard is it to reformat a computer and put SQL server on it? Or get a second monitor and fscking plug it in?

You people?

What most engineers (or any job/department for that matter) fail to realize is that there is no one most important job/department in a company for without one part, none of the other parts would be employed. However, engineers tend to do it with the highest volume of self righteous whining I have ever heard.

Do you need SQL server for your lunch time side project or for a mission critical business objective? For most engineers there is little impact on importance between those two scenarios. The accountants, which write your paycheck, might think otherwise.

{generalized}Engineers deem whatever they say to be the unquestionable truth. Then whenever they are questioned they take it as a personal attack and decide that they shouldnt have to answer to anyone.{/generalized}

BTW, I would bet you requested a 24" LCD and without it you cant do any part of your job... Am I right?

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Originally posted by: Cattlegod
engineers need admin access.

Not if IT knows how to set them up appropriately.

------------------------------------

Originally posted by: SampSon
I engineered my way into your sisters pants.

Finally, a voice of reason.

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Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Face it, engineers (especially EEs) are elitist assholes... and we love every second of it. :laugh:

Another true engineer. Be proud and embrace your engineeringness.

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Originally posted by: CanOWorms
engineers are arrogant, nothing new!

Hey! Captain Obvious! Dont you have a city to save?

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Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
There's a spectrum of intelligence for both engineers and IT folks...

I've worked with engineers who are brilliant and engineers who made me lose all sense of respect for the institution that gave them a B.S. (with 3.7 GPA no less in one case).

I know some really smart IT guys who, honestly, need to find a much more challenging and higher paying job doing software/system design.

But I have know some real IT heals...as well.

Well said.

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Originally posted by: PowerEngineer

"The only thing worse" is trying to get timely and competent support from an IT department for engineering applications. Many engineers are forced into the role of "power users" and maybe even IT rule breakers. We have to overstep the boundaries drawn up by IT bureaucracies in order to get things done. Oh yes, we may have to bow and scrap to IT's corporate influence and try to reassure you all that we're not doing "dumb things". But we find you IT "support" people at least as frustrating as you find us.

So getting things done is more imporatnt than facing multi-million dollat software license violations?

Heck... Let's just have a :beer:

I probably wouldnt mind working with you too much

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Originally posted by: brxndxn
Engineers > IT People > Finance people > Marketing people > Management

Sorry, b!tches. Quit crying and suck it up. That is the order of things.

Oh? You forgot Sales for without them, the engineers would have nothing to engineer. And accounting, without them you wouldnt have a paycheck.

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Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: brxndxn
Engineers > IT People > Finance people > Marketing people > Management

Sorry, b!tches. Quit crying and suck it up. That is the order of things.

Actually, it goes management > marketing > finance >engineers > IT

Once you work in a job and see who has the clout, you'll know what I mean. Management can fire everyone else, obviously they're at the top.

And yes, unfortunately managers are at the top of the food chain despite their best efforts.

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Originally posted by: shud
Well, from my experience, out of the engineering majors I know, none of them know sh!t about computers. Even some of the computer engineers don't know AS MUCH as you would expect.

Generalized, but generally I would agree.


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Originally posted by: 733SHiFTY
engineers > all

we actually rule the world

and the reason your message from the engineering MANAGER was so stupid, is the fact that he/she is a MANAGER, and most engineers know that their managers really know jack sh!t...

You command a simple elegance in your use of the English language. This isnt a recommended practice but at my company we tend to promote the best engineers into management... So I think you may be onto something.

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Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
To watch an engineer run a strange email attachment is bad.
The attachment name being "gone.scr" makes it worse.
The engineer being a SOFTWARE engineer is frightening.
That engineer being the head of the software department now is downright scary.

(this is the same guy that managed to somehow turn a knob on a hot plate to max, all weekend long, in his locked office, with a plastic container on it.)

Alot of the engineers around here honestly think that IT is a bunch of idiots and that they could run the network better. If ANYTHING goes wrong they say "IT is f'ing with the network again!". Personally, I don't think it's bad at all. It's up most of the time, and all the changes I can understand the reasoning behind (ie: blocking outside email services). Ever watch the head of a mechanical engineering department need to find instructions on how to change a tire?

This would be funny if it was not true.

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Originally posted by: Homerboy

THe only thing worse is supporting lawyers.

I support lawyers.....

I am truly sorry for you. What did you do so wrong in a past life??

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Originally posted by: davestar
this may shock some, but some engineers are old enough that they did not grow up with computers. the guy in the office next to me has degrees coming out his a$$ and has forgotten more about digital design, radar exciter/receiver design, etc than i could ever hope (or want) to learn. he's a retard in front of a computer, though. it's usually more a generational thing than an "arrogant, stupid engineer" thing.

lesson: computer literacy/competance isn't a measuring stick you should use for your life.

Very grounded perspective. Again, my original post was taken out of context.

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Originally posted by: Crassus

Originally posted by: dhslammer
...THe only thing worse is supporting lawyers...

Why is that?

Would take to long to explain but here is one reason. They never pay the full amount and when they do pay it takes a very long time. THis is because they think they know the laws and therefore work them to their advantage as much as possible. Also, it is very difficult to find a lawyer that is willing to sue another lawyer.

I will work for lawyers but I always double my quote and make them pay half up front. The quote always has clearly defined conditions that describe when the job is done. They tend to add a lot of things to be done without paying any more, or decide that you messed something up that is totally unrelated and want you to fix that which you didnt touch, and refuse to pay a cent until it is all done to their satisfaction. They are never satisfied.

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Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Simon? Is that you?!

Simon, BOFH here. How can I help?


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Originally posted by: PawNtheSandman
Here is an idea, how about instead of bitching about them, why not use Active Directory to set up a Engineer group and have their user accounts placed in said group. Then after a meeting with them, configure the group with the proper permissions needed for them to do their job.

:Q

They are wrong for being elitist pricks who want "Admin access"
and your are wrong for not knowing how to do your job.

Great minds think alike.

------------------------------------



And without further ado...

Teh win:

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: beer

Originally posted by: Phoenix86
I have supported software engineers.

edit: they don't know sh!t about the OS or hardware...

And they still probably make more $$ than you. Some things are more important, and I love it when IT folk shoot these across the forums to stroke their ego.

Oh sir I beg to differ.... you guys do not make more than IT guys.. sure maybe more than the Desktop support guy, but certainly not more than us higher up IT "engineers". And we're not stroking our ego, we're comiserating, because knowing that we're not alone in the struggle against your utter incompetence helps us maintain some sanity.

-Max

Amen.

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

Originally posted by: MrBond
But we ARE perfect

:thumbsup:

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Slightly OT, but I find that the term "engineer" is a bit too loosly used. Seems anyone who gets past the 2nd tier of tech support is all of a sudden a network engineer, quality engineer, database engineer, microsoft engineer, adobe engineer, customer support engineer, etc. Most of them dont even have a college degree

What does a college degree have to do with being an engineer?

You're acting like a college degree is rare these days, possessed by a select few elite. Not so. You still have plenty of idiots in the country, just nowadays they have a piece of paper to wave around. Meanwhile, the richest guy in the world is probably some guy you look down on for not having that piece of paper.

Kids these days are funny. It's humorous watching kids talk like they're special or something. They'd be more humble if they were a little smarter, because then they'd be smart enough to realize how much they don't know.

An engineering degree from a decent school is rare these days, possessed by a select (read: smart) few. Just cause some jackass got lucky and made money, doesn't make him smarter than an engineer. That said, there are tons of smart people who didn't get a degree. Gates has been an engineer at MS, despite not having the degree. Engineeers don't look down on him or anybody else without a degree, just cause they don't have it. Engineers do look down on dummies who think they are really smart and could do all the math, physics, chemistry, programming, etc. that engineers have, especially when that is based on money.

 

[dhslammer]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Besides, no one in their right mind would try to pull rank on an IT guy like that. We're usually the only people in the company with full read/write access to everyone's data, and umm... "Accidents" tend to happen to people who piss us off

I've always found it is the IT and security guys who have all the dirt on what's going on around the office as well.

This is true as I sit here in IT Security. I know all the sites you visit, all your data on your workstation or on the server and all the email you send and receive. Its all pretty boring but it can come in handy if you need it.

Information is power.

http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard1.html

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Queasy
I've always found it is the IT and security guys who have all the dirt on what's going on around the office as well.

:laugh: :evil: