Face it, engineers (especially EEs) are elitist assholes... and we love every second of it. :laugh:
There's a spectrum of intelligence for both engineers and IT folks...
I've worked with engineers who are brilliant and engineers who made me lose all sense of respect for the institution that gave them a B.S. (with 3.7 GPA no less in one case).
I know some really smart IT guys who, honestly, need to find a much more challenging and higher paying job doing software/system design.
But I have know some real IT heals...as well.
At one job I was prohibited from placing UNIX systems on an otherwise all windows network because the IT people were affraid of QNX/Linux/BSD and their "voodoo". I had to talk the VP of plant operations at my site so he'd yell at them (which he did) and tell them to give my systems network/internet access.
At the same job, IT cut network access no less than on three separate occasions to our SCADA servers (supervisory control and data acquisition) which collected and analysis process data for our whole plant. So operations went kinda FUBAR...
Our SCADA servers were behind a one-way firewall and were set up to send data from the actual SCADA servers to an "wild side" (what I called the business LAN) network data server which in turn servered data to QA/QC folks, enigneers on the business LAN. So IT could see the SCADA data servers on the control system network but couldn't scan the windows SCADA data servers (there were QNX boxes too) and, per their policy and procedure, cut network access to them and refused all traffic to/from the servers.
The third time this happened my boss almost punched the IT manager...the meeting was classic...the plant VP spent a good 15 minutes elucidating how stupid the IT department must be [to the IT managers faced no less] to cut network access three times to some of the most operation critical systems in the plant.
BTW...the SCADA servers were updated regularly...just not in the usually way. I got CD's once or twice a month with the windows patches/updates, control system driver updates, and SCADA software updates all rolled into nice tight, tested, and validated packages so the system was updated as a whole in an orderly manner.
I've worked with engineers who are brilliant and engineers who made me lose all sense of respect for the institution that gave them a B.S. (with 3.7 GPA no less in one case).
I know some really smart IT guys who, honestly, need to find a much more challenging and higher paying job doing software/system design.
But I have know some real IT heals...as well.
At one job I was prohibited from placing UNIX systems on an otherwise all windows network because the IT people were affraid of QNX/Linux/BSD and their "voodoo". I had to talk the VP of plant operations at my site so he'd yell at them (which he did) and tell them to give my systems network/internet access.
At the same job, IT cut network access no less than on three separate occasions to our SCADA servers (supervisory control and data acquisition) which collected and analysis process data for our whole plant. So operations went kinda FUBAR...
Our SCADA servers were behind a one-way firewall and were set up to send data from the actual SCADA servers to an "wild side" (what I called the business LAN) network data server which in turn servered data to QA/QC folks, enigneers on the business LAN. So IT could see the SCADA data servers on the control system network but couldn't scan the windows SCADA data servers (there were QNX boxes too) and, per their policy and procedure, cut network access to them and refused all traffic to/from the servers.
The third time this happened my boss almost punched the IT manager...the meeting was classic...the plant VP spent a good 15 minutes elucidating how stupid the IT department must be [to the IT managers faced no less] to cut network access three times to some of the most operation critical systems in the plant.
BTW...the SCADA servers were updated regularly...just not in the usually way. I got CD's once or twice a month with the windows patches/updates, control system driver updates, and SCADA software updates all rolled into nice tight, tested, and validated packages so the system was updated as a whole in an orderly manner.
ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
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Originally posted by: Phoenix86
I have supported software engineers.
edit: they don't know sh!t about the OS or hardware...
Software engineers are bad, but Finance people and project managers are even worse! They don't know much of anything about computers in general, almost never admit to what they REALLY did to screw up the systems that they broke, and are lightning quick to blame IT the second a project falls behind schedule. Oh, and they don't want to pay a penny for ANY of it :disgust:
PowerEngineer
Diamond Member
- Oct 22, 2001
- 3,606
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"The only thing worse" is trying to get timely and competent support from an IT department for engineering applications. Many engineers are forced into the role of "power users" and maybe even IT rule breakers. We have to overstep the boundaries drawn up by IT bureaucracies in order to get things done. Oh yes, we may have to bow and scrap to IT's corporate influence and try to reassure you all that we're not doing "dumb things". But we find you IT "support" people at least as frustrating as you find us.
Heck... Let's just have a :beer:
Many software engineers only know the API's they work with because that's what they need to know...guys that do drivers or system level progamming (like designing and building API's) know the OS's and system services they work with much better than you or I ever will.
Engineers > IT People > Finance people > Marketing people > Management
Sorry, b!tches. Quit crying and suck it up. That is the order of things.
Sorry, b!tches. Quit crying and suck it up. That is the order of things.
edmundoab
Diamond Member
Actually, it goes management > marketing > finance >engineers > IT
Once you work in a job and see who has the clout, you'll know what I mean. Management can fire everyone else, obviously they're at the top.
Well, from my experience, out of the engineering majors I know, none of them know sh!t about computers. Even some of the computer engineers don't know AS MUCH as you would expect.
And like 91TTZ said, it's always harder than you think. Especially at larger corporations where everyone has a specialized job. I'm not allowed to touch ANY hardware or do any installations, and it can be a major pain in the ass when I need an APC switch installed and I have to wait for facilities to clear it and install it. It usually doesn't happen without me e-mailing the same guy 3 or 4 times.
And like 91TTZ said, it's always harder than you think. Especially at larger corporations where everyone has a specialized job. I'm not allowed to touch ANY hardware or do any installations, and it can be a major pain in the ass when I need an APC switch installed and I have to wait for facilities to clear it and install it. It usually doesn't happen without me e-mailing the same guy 3 or 4 times.
engineers > all
we actually rule the world
and the reason your message from the engineering MANAGER was so stupid, is the fact that he/she is a MANAGER, and most engineers know that their managers really know jack sh!t...
we actually rule the world
and the reason your message from the engineering MANAGER was so stupid, is the fact that he/she is a MANAGER, and most engineers know that their managers really know jack sh!t...
franksta
Golden Member
- Jun 6, 2001
- 1,967
- 6
- 81
I had a psychology professor in college that tried to tell us that pilots were perfect and all crashes caused by "human-error" were bogus because the airplane should have been designed otherwise.
I studied electrical engineering and often a lot of my classes were shared with computer engineers that could do no amount of troubleshooting. That said, I think it was a very generalized statement by the manager in your case.
I studied electrical engineering and often a lot of my classes were shared with computer engineers that could do no amount of troubleshooting. That said, I think it was a very generalized statement by the manager in your case.
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
I have supported software engineers.
edit: they don't know sh!t about the OS or hardware...
And they still probably make more $$ than you. Some things are more important, and I love it when IT folk shoot these across the forums to stroke their ego.
Oh sir I beg to differ.... you guys do not make more than IT guys.. sure maybe more than the Desktop support guy, but certainly not more than us higher up IT "engineers". And we're not stroking our ego, we're comiserating, because knowing that we're not alone in the struggle against your utter incompetence helps us maintain some sanity.
-Max
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2000
- 20,551
- 2
- 81
To watch an engineer run a strange email attachment is bad.
The attachment name being "gone.scr" makes it worse.
The engineer being a SOFTWARE engineer is frightening.
That engineer being the head of the software department now is downright scary.
(this is the same guy that managed to somehow turn a knob on a hot plate to max, all weekend long, in his locked office, with a plastic container on it.)
Alot of the engineers around here honestly think that IT is a bunch of idiots and that they could run the network better. If ANYTHING goes wrong they say "IT is f'ing with the network again!". Personally, I don't think it's bad at all. It's up most of the time, and all the changes I can understand the reasoning behind (ie: blocking outside email services). Ever watch the head of a mechanical engineering department need to find instructions on how to change a tire?
The attachment name being "gone.scr" makes it worse.
The engineer being a SOFTWARE engineer is frightening.
That engineer being the head of the software department now is downright scary.
(this is the same guy that managed to somehow turn a knob on a hot plate to max, all weekend long, in his locked office, with a plastic container on it.)
Alot of the engineers around here honestly think that IT is a bunch of idiots and that they could run the network better. If ANYTHING goes wrong they say "IT is f'ing with the network again!". Personally, I don't think it's bad at all. It's up most of the time, and all the changes I can understand the reasoning behind (ie: blocking outside email services). Ever watch the head of a mechanical engineering department need to find instructions on how to change a tire?
this may shock some, but some engineers are old enough that they did not grow up with computers. the guy in the office next to me has degrees coming out his a$$ and has forgotten more about digital design, radar exciter/receiver design, etc than i could ever hope (or want) to learn. he's a retard in front of a computer, though. it's usually more a generational thing than an "arrogant, stupid engineer" thing.
lesson: computer literacy/competance isn't a measuring stick you should use for your life.
lesson: computer literacy/competance isn't a measuring stick you should use for your life.
ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
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- 2,450
- 126
No, not really. IT has their own managers, finance, and engineering people in big corporations. If the new hire from finance or engineering tries to boss THEM around, they will get put in their place pretty quickly.
Besides, no one in their right mind would try to pull rank on an IT guy like that. We're usually the only people in the company with full read/write access to everyone's data, and umm... "Accidents" tend to happen to people who piss us off
Queasy
Moderator<br>Console Gaming
- Aug 24, 2001
- 31,796
- 2
- 0
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Besides, no one in their right mind would try to pull rank on an IT guy like that. We're usually the only people in the company with full read/write access to everyone's data, and umm... "Accidents" tend to happen to people who piss us off
I've always found it is the IT and security guys who have all the dirt on what's going on around the office as well.
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