Actress Heather Lind accuses former President George H.W. Bush of sexual assault

[Fanatical Meat]

How about the context of the discussion we're having?

The example given was a wife or daughter complaining about sexual harassment from their boss, not incidental contact from a well wisher.

We need context, specifically what happened.
You inserted yourself between what homer & I were speaking of, which you are welcome to do. I do expect you to read what was previously stated.

 

[skull]

If your wife, gf or daughter came home and said their boss grabbed her ass I doubt you would consider that "white noise"

Why is that? If I go home to my dad and tell him some old lady grabbed my ass again he'd laugh. Then again so do I when it happens.

I once had an old lady grab at my package pleading with me to stay that she'd do all the work and do whatever I wanted. I should have just made the old ladies day.

 

[pauldun170]

Why is that? If I go home to my dad and tell him some old lady grabbed my ass again he'd laugh. Then again so do I when it happens.

I once had an old lady grab at my package pleading with me to stay that she'd do all the work and do whatever I wanted. I should have just made the old ladies day.

Replace the old lady with this guy, and he has a massive erection.

You gonna laugh?

Or Maybe this guy comes up to you and feels you up...with the same look on his face

 

[pauldun170]

You do realize that when the chorus of #metoo gets so broad that it starts to sound like #crywolf, it becomes white noise and people lose interest in trying to solve the underlying problem.

Are you a woman and do you think you should be the one who defines the scope?

Most people use the following test.
How would you want your wife treated by a strange man off the street?
or if single and straight
How would you like to be treated by a strange man off the street?

 

[Starbuck1975]

The only broad thing about it is how broadly prevalent sexual harassment and misconduct is in society. It carries with it a sort of normalcy where it's just accepted that some of it is "boys being boys". The #metoo movement is literally to show men how often it happens to the women around us, the fact that people want context and even start to think about crying wolf shows just how deeply seeded the idea that women would use sexual misconduct to bring down a good man is.

I personally do not know a single woman that has not been a victim of sexual abuse or misconduct. That's a 100% rate, most don't speak up because as soon as they do, men assume that it's primarily a smear campaign or character assassination. The sad truth is that most intelligent and powerful men are smart enough to know when and how to do this behavior so that it never gets caught in a way that would give hard evidence for the women to ever get any real case against them.

Sexual abuse, misconduct and inappropriate language are all very different things. Some are criminal. Others are against corporate policy. There is a cultural element as well relative to what people find acceptable or are willing to tolerate. The problem, as I said before, is that when you lump all of those things into one conversation, it becomes white noise. Coercing a female employee into having consensual sex, unwelcome sexual advances and a dirty locker room joke told at a corporate dinner after too many glasses of wine are all very different and demand different responses.

I have witnessed baby boomer or older managers who are relics of another age and era make inappropriate jokes or sexist comments, but those same managers are similarly abusive towards male employees but within a different context. I've seen HR processes effectively shut down or end the careers of such managers.

I've also seen attractive women play the game to climb the corporate ladder, flirting in a way that is absolutely inappropriate, but that rarely gets disciplined.

How about the context of the discussion we're having?

The example given was a wife or daughter complaining about sexual harassment from their boss, not incidental contact from a well wisher.

The example given is a clear black and white scenario with no context as to the nature of the complaint

 

[Starbuck1975]

Are you a woman and do you think you should be the one who defines the scope?

Most people use the following test.
How would you want your wife treated by a strange man off the street?
or if single and straight
How would you like to be treated by a strange man off the street?

Too broad of a question. Again it comes down to context. What is the intent of the man approaching me?

Are you a woman? Why is your opinion on this topic any more valid?

We have the law for criminal matters and corporate codes of conduct for non criminal matters.

 

[Zorba]

If your wife, gf or daughter came home and said their boss grabbed her ass I doubt you would consider that "white noise"

Did she ever actually say her grabbed her ass? I got the impression she was upset her put his arm around her when her butt was at his shoulder level. If he actually grabbed her ass, I have a much different opinion than he just put his arm around her for a picture.

This is a problem with the very vague accusations, everyone will fill in the blanks differently.

 

[HomerJS]

Depends on the context

Just curious in what context is it ok for the boss to grab the ass of your wife, gf or daughter?

I can think of one. If she's blowing him at the time them I guess its ok. What say you?

Yeah that's snark but overall point Bush was in a total power position. Take average joe old man she slaps his face or curses him out. In this instance why should she have to take it?

 

[Zorba]

Just curious in what context is it ok for the boss to grab the ass of your wife, gf or daughter?

I can think of one. If she's blowing him at the time them I guess its ok. What say you?

Yeah that's snark but overall point Bush was in a total power position. Take average joe old man she slaps his face or curses him out. In this instance why should she have to take it?

Can you define the "it" she was taking? As far as I've seen, she never actually said what he did and the picture just looks like he put his arm around her for a picture.

Screw context, lets find out what the actual accusation is before we go hang the guy.

 

[woolfe9998]

GHWB has a form of parkinson's disease, likely for many years now. Hypersexuality is sometimes a symptom of the dopamine they give you as medication. I have seen this first hand with a family member. In addition, old age can have a disinhibiting effect on socially unacceptable behaviors.

Unless I hear that he did things like this before becoming a decrepit old fart, I'm inclined to let this one slide.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Just curious in what context is it ok for the boss to grab the ass of your wife, gf or daughter?

I can think of one. If she's blowing him at the time them I guess its ok. What say you?

Yeah that's snark but overall point Bush was in a total power position. Take average joe old man she slaps his face or curses him out. In this instance why should she have to take it?

It was snarky because there is no overall point. You are projecting what you think happened and connecting dots based off assumptions.

I don't believe President Bush deliberately and in a chauvinistic manner assaulted this young actress.

I can believe that in the moment, and given the relative height of his arm due to his being in a wheelchair, that contact was made, perhaps followed by an inappropriate joke to make light of an awkward situation.

 

[skull]

Replace the old lady with this guy, and he has a massive erection.

You gonna laugh?

Or Maybe this guy comes up to you and feels you up...with the same look on his face

Oddly enough yeah. I work construction with a bunch of homos I get felt up by dudes on a pretty regular basis too.

 

[Ackmed]

Why is that? If I go home to my dad and tell him some old lady grabbed my ass again he'd laugh. Then again so do I when it happens.

I once had an old lady grab at my package pleading with me to stay that she'd do all the work and do whatever I wanted. I should have just made the old ladies day.

This is true, there are far more sexual assaults committed by males to females, than females to males. If a male reported it, it would be laughed at more than likely. Just like it seems to be "ok" to make jokes about all the female teachers having sex with underage students. Its joked about, laughed at, etc. Not so when a male teacher sleeps with an underage female student. There is a double standard. I have a supervisor that for years at work has made very sexual comments towards me. To the point I will avoid her at all costs, its just uncomfortable. I have never seriously thought about reporting her, mostly because I can get past it, and secondly because it would be laughed at.

That being said, there is never an ok time to touch someone who doesn't want it, or make sexual jokes or comments that are not wanted either. Which seems to happen pretty often actually, from people in very high places and should know better. Not convinced that is what happened here, but could be. Joe Biden memes show many times where it looks pretty damn awkward and unwanted.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Call him out then and there. Not 4 years later when it's the latest thing to do.

Yea, I'm totally certain you'd believe her then.

 

[Oyeve]

Yea, I'm totally certain you'd believe her then.

I never said I didn't.

 

[zinfamous]

I'm thinking a 90+ year old guy in a wheelchair patting a woman on the butt and telling a bad joke seems not to rise to the current level of allegations against others.

I tend to agree. This is crazy old man behavior. I suppose it can be argued that we say this because we have been tolerating crazy old men and their behavior for generations...but I mean, it's a crazy old man with 9 toes in the grave. He wasn't trying to use his power to rape her, destroy her career, or really can it be said that he actually wanted to progress beyond his fleeting dirty thoughts?

I know--no woman deserves to be treated that way, even by a dirty old man. ...but it's a dirty old man. I don't know what to do with this, lol.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I tend to agree. This is crazy old man behavior. I suppose it can be argued that we say this because we have been tolerating crazy old men and their behavior for generations...but I mean, it's a crazy old man with 9 toes in the grave. He wasn't trying to use his power to rape her, destroy her career, or really can it be said that he actually wanted to progress beyond his fleeting dirty thoughts?

I know--no woman deserves to be treated that way, even by a dirty old man. ...but it's a dirty old man. I don't know what to do with this, lol.

This is a classic impossible to answer, because the starting point is unknown other than inappropriate touching. What's inappropriate to one is welcomed by another.

We can safely say Bush sticking his thumb up her booty is inappropriate
Is Bush putting his arm around her inappropriate?

Two totally different scenarios to me and I assume many people but not all. We all start with different assumptions & different definitions

 

[zinfamous]

This is a classic impossible to answer, because the starting point is unknown other than inappropriate touching. What's inappropriate to one is welcomed by another.

We can safely say Bush sticking his thumb up her booty is inappropriate
Is Bush putting his arm around her inappropriate?

Two totally different scenarios to me and I assume many people but not all. We all start with different assumptions & different definitions

and I hate to use the term "crazy or dirty old man," because this behavior is relatively common when one ages. ...and it isn't about tolerating these seemingly "harmless" responses, it's about a real plaque buildup or mental blockade going on within an old brain. It's actually hard to say, from person to person, if the old codger actually knows what they are doing. Then again, it also depends on the long personal history of the individual. Certainly Barbara would know if he's been a poonhound his whole life.

 

[Viper GTS]

When the first one came out my thought was that it seemed likely to be dementia related. Now there's a second one, again recently, and I'm inclined to think the same thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ccused-him-of-groping/?utm_term=.58739c518ac4

It doesn't make it right, it doesn't exactly excuse it, but I'm also not sure that it justifies so publicly trashing a really old man's name. I'd feel the same way if he wasn't a former president, or if he was female. I simply don't think it's fair to brand somebody for behavior that is most easily explained by something they have no control over.

If anything this falls more on the people around him for continuing to put him in situations where this can occur.

I of course reserve the right to change my mind if it turns out he has a history of this or worse.

Viper GTS

 

[MomentsofSanity]

When the first one came out my thought was that it seemed likely to be dementia related. Now there's a second one, again recently, and I'm inclined to think the same thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ccused-him-of-groping/?utm_term=.58739c518ac4

It doesn't make it right, it doesn't exactly excuse it, but I'm also not sure that it justifies so publicly trashing a really old man's name. I'd feel the same way if he wasn't a former president, or if he was female. I simply don't think it's fair to brand somebody for behavior that is most easily explained by something they have no control over.

If anything this falls more on the people around him for continuing to put him in situations where this can occur.

I of course reserve the right to change my mind if it turns out he has a history of this or worse.

Viper GTS

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Considering his spokesman has come out this morning and said he has repeatedly patted women on the butts and made the same joke (something about favorite magician David-Cop-A-Feel) this isn't dementia. He's very conscious of what he is doing.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...er-second-actor-accuses-him-of-sexual-assault

“To try to put people at ease, the president routinely tells the same joke – and on occasion, he has patted women’s rears in what he intended to be a good-natured manner. Some have seen it as innocent; others clearly view it as inappropriate,” McGrath wrote. “To anyone he has offended, President Bush apologizes most sincerely.”

I'm curious what he needs to put anyone at ease about other than "hey, I'm about to grab your ass but it's ok because here's a joke"

 

[PricklyPete]

Sad, but glad these actresses are coming forward. This type of behavior needs to be condemned regardless of the age of the perpetrator or who they are.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Sad, but glad these actresses are coming forward. This type of behavior needs to be condemned regardless of the age of the perpetrator or who they are.

Exactly. Excusing it as he's this or he's that is enabling. Pat my daughter ass and I don't care who you are. All it does is enable them.

 

[IronWing]

Ten years ago, at the 1988 Republican Convention, Hartford Courant associate editor David Fink struck up a conversation with George W. "When you're not talking politics," Fink asked the vice president's son, "what do you and [your father] talk about?"

"Pussy," George W. replied.

 

[vailr]

Certainly Barbara would know if he's been a poonhound his whole life.

There's a 2016 book authored by Roger Stone titled "Jeb! and the Bush Crime Family" that includes information concerning Bush 41's decades-long relationship with a certain Swiss woman, and that wife Barbara Bush was certainly well aware of that situation.
Teri Hatcher and George Bush Sr. Lunch Date
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJZoai2HIeA

 

[HomerJS]

It was snarky because there is no overall point. You are projecting what you think happened and connecting dots based off assumptions.

I don't believe President Bush deliberately and in a chauvinistic manner assaulted this young actress.

I can believe that in the moment, and given the relative height of his arm due to his being in a wheelchair, that contact was made, perhaps followed by an inappropriate joke to make light of an awkward situation.

My answer was based on your conjecture there is a context where it is ok for a boss to intentionally grab/touch a woman's ass. I still don't know what that is.

I don't think this rises to the level of criminal sexual assault. She chose to deal by standing there and taking it. She was sort of forced to by the power disparity. Then the security person blames her for standing too close. Really?

I don't have a problem with her telling the story now if she felt really creeped out. Today's news now puts her in the position of power.