Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: wwswimming
one of the many things about 9-11 that seemed odd was their apparent hurry
to "destroy the evidence" - to get rid of the building debris.

in the case of TWA Flight 800, they painstakingly re-assembled the plane
fragments in an airplane hanger.

why not give the victims of 9-11 the same respect ? seeing as how there
were 10 times more people killed. a huge pile of debris with tremendous
forensic value, and they're in a hurry to get rid of it.

i could understand wanting to move it out of NYC, but melt it down ?

it's to the credit of the researchers that they were able to get samples to
perform the forensic analysis they managed.

Do you realize how much debris there was? You expect them to re-assemble the towers?

 

[SoulAssassin]

Ok I'm a borderline conspiracy nutjob but the fact that they found rust and aluminum does not mean anything. If they didn't find that I would think something was up.

 

[First]

I believe you. See sig for details.

 

[Vicken]

debunked debunked and debunked

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

1) The amount of thermite needed to bring down that building would be literally tons. How would that go unnoticed?

2) Thermite does not burn horizontally.

3) None of the steel shows signs of thermite damage. Thermite does not burn evenly. It makes nasty holes with molten metal drips.

4) There is zero evidence of thermite.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: event8horizon
well, its about time they came out with this. prof jones and company put this out just a few days ago. seems like jones sent some of his red chip thermite to different labs yrs ago. for those inquiring minds:

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

pp.7-31 (25)

Authors: Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley, Bradley R. Larsen

Abstract

We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

id reccommed downloading it so u can read through the 24 pages of material.

http://www.bentham-open.org/pa...02/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM


here is a video presentation prof jones did about a yr ago when he found these red chips that turned out to be unreacted thermite!!
http://video.google.com/videop...d=-4186920967571123147]http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/co...001/7TOCPJ.SGM"><b">http...es/co...001/7TOCPJ.SGM</a></a>

There was no peer review of this journal, unless you consider "peers" to be other 9/11 conspiracy theorists. Not only that, but Jones and Co. paid to have this paper published. No self-respecting scientific journal requires that researchers pay to have their articles published.

 

[NeoV]

the best part is "one sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about 10 minutes after the collapse of the 2nd tower"

Does anyone else see the opp leaving his house through a secret tunnel that opens behind his garage?

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Im guessing this is some sort of tin foil hat thing.

if you see in the excerpt, he lists aluminum, not tin, as one of the ingredients.

 

[fornax]

TLC, why don't you stick to porn magazines, you obviously have no clue about science publishing. Virtually all science journals have page charges ($200-$500 per page or more), with the exception of a very few which are supported by membership dues. A handful of well-respected journal are government supported, but literally a handful.

I'm not taking sides on this particular paper, but it's quite apparent that you're totally clueless, as are many dimwits posting here.

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
There was no peer review of this journal, unless you consider "peers" to be other 9/11 conspiracy theorists. Not only that, but Jones and Co. paid to have this paper published. No self-respecting scientific journal requires that researchers pay to have their articles published.

 

[GenHoth]

I think event8horizon and The Green Bean are my favorite posters with Butter Bean coming in third because sometimes his posts make me chew on my arm

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: fornax
TLC, why don't you stick to porn magazines, you obviously have no clue about science publishing. Virtually all science journals have page charges ($200-$500 per page or more), with the exception of a very few which are supported by membership dues. A handful of well-respected journal are government supported, but literally a handful.

I'm not taking sides on this particular paper, but it's quite apparent that you're totally clueless, as are many dimwits posting here.

Many science journals have a charge to defer the peer review process. However, this particular "journal" is brand new (2 months old) and Bentham already has a reputation for vanity publishing. But surely you knew that already?

Oh wait, no you didn't or you wouldn't have begun flapping your yap in the first place on the issue.

:roll:

Then there's the problems inherent in the paper itself, including the list of authors, all of which are known 9/11 conspiracy theorists. There's no chain of custody on the samples. The paper doesn't even attempt to rule out other potential sources of the compounds. The spectrographic analysis of the samples in Jones's paper doesn't match the spectrographics analysis of thermite or thermate.

And it doesn't really matter because the authors have NEVER demonstrated that thermite, thermate or any variation thereof could actually bring down the WTC buildings in the first place while many others have explained why it is not possible.

So do you have something to add or do you have any clue about this subject in the first place?

 

[kylebisme]

If you can't tell the guy answering the question here is bluffing, I don't recommend ever playing poker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0GHVEKrhng#t=6m35s

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Lulz.

 

[First]

^ Huh? Physics dictates a constant rate of acceleration of gravity as 9.81 m/s^2. I don't see the conspiratorial significance of WTC7 falling at freefall.

Overall, you'd really have to be as dumb as a doorknob to believe in a conspiracy. As in certifiably stupid and/or paranoid.

 

[CLite]

As a human being, 9/11 wackos piss me off because it's clear they have no social interaction (besides internet forums) from a day to day basis. Anyone with the least bit of daily human interaction would realize such a grandiose conspiracy requiring thousands upon thousands of people to maliciously plot to death of over three thousand citizens is impossible.

As an engineer it is pathetic to watch these retards with their stumped social development try to get into the technical aspects of the towers collapse. Go back to posting about how the man is out to get you, it's less pathetic than flailing around hopelessly in the technical field which you know nothing about.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: GenHoth
I think event8horizon and The Green Bean are my favorite posters with Butter Bean coming in third because sometimes his posts make me chew on my arm

x2 :laugh:

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: wwswimming
one of the many things about 9-11 that seemed odd was their apparent hurry to "destroy the evidence" - to get rid of the building debris.
...

it's to the credit of the researchers that they were able to get samples to
perform the forensic analysis they managed.

Do you realize how much debris there was? You expect them to re-assemble the towers?

yes, and then to get out their Harry Potter magic wand, say "Reparo", and fix it !

what i expect them to do is investigate the crime. and that means not destroying one of the biggest piles of evidence.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: wwswimming

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: wwswimming
one of the many things about 9-11 that seemed odd was their apparent hurry to "destroy the evidence" - to get rid of the building debris.
...

it's to the credit of the researchers that they were able to get samples to
perform the forensic analysis they managed.

Do you realize how much debris there was? You expect them to re-assemble the towers?

yes, and then to get out their Harry Potter magic wand, say "Reparo", and fix it !

what i expect them to do is investigate the crime. and that means not destroying one of the biggest piles of evidence.

Investigate the crime? They have! Are you living under a rock or in a cave with the OP?

 

[Zenmervolt]

The only appropriate response I can think of.

ZV

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Again and again... I'm tempted to post my thoughts, even though I realize they're very likely to be dismissed as more paranoia, fantasy or conspiracy theory...

1. The U.S. took 9/11 as an opportunity to exert its military and economical hegemony. As the poet said, "se non e vero, e ben trovato". Plus, there were quite a few uncanny coincidences - such as the military exercise taking place at the exact time of the attacks...
2. If it were a conspiracy, I don't think it would have required "thousands upon thousands" of people involved and "in the know"... A few dozen, at most, would have been enough. As for what's keeping them quiet: The first best two incentives are money and fear. Anyone can be blackmailed into doing anything these days - for his sake, or his family's. Or they could simply be killed afterwards. History is full of examples.
3. I don't think any government is above killing its own people in order to reach political or economic gains. The U.S. is no exception...on the contrary. A quick example comes to mind, since it was used as a comparison event: Pearl Harbor. Only in recent years did it come to light that Washington knew the attack will take place, but chose to keep quiet and use it as a reason to enter WWII.
4. Many aspects of 9/11 were suspicious... Why was the Pentagon lawn so quickly and conveniently swept clean (on the same day!), and the plane crash site was covered with sand? This goes against any crash investigation methodology. Also, speaking of crashes, there certainly wasn't enough debris left in either Washington DC or in Pennsylvania... I've seen only one plane crash site in "real life" before, along with many others on TV... and they looked nothing like that. Also, I do not remember any human remains being mentioned, whatsoever, and you DO come across those at a plane crash site...
5. Follow the money. There were billions to be made from the ensuing Afghano-Iraqi debacle... Some companies and individuals got filthy rich - and, more importantly, gained a whole lot of influence.
6. Dismissing any suspicions as "outright lunacy" is counter-productive. Any half-skilled PR campaign can skew public opinion against any ideas contradicting the official version...
7. Not all those who doubt 9/11 are trolls, people with no social interaction, uneducated or naive. Many of them are not even U.S. residents - which can work for or against them, depending how you chose to interpret it.
8. As long as there's a reasonable doubt concerning 9/11, critical thinking is recommended... This was not a clear-cut "terrorist goes kaboom!" situation.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
2. If it were a conspiracy, I don't think it would have required "thousands upon thousands" of people involved and "in the know"... A few dozen, at most, would have been enough. As for what's keeping them quiet: The first best two incentives are money and fear. Anyone can be blackmailed into doing anything these days - for his sake, or his family's. Or they could simply be killed afterwards. History is full of examples.

Maybe you can answer this for me since I cannot get an answer from any other consipracy theorists...

We have 4 flights that day...
United Flight 175 and United 93
American Airlines Flight 11 and 77.

You say only a few dozen would have been needed. How about those flights were published months in advance. Multiple companies sold tickets on those flights. The morning of those flights the pilots were briefed by a dispatcher, those planes were fueled and cleaned and loaded by airport and airline personnel, mechanics worked on those airplanes, gate agents loaded passengers, ATC received flight plans for those flights, the pilots contacted the FAA for permission to commence those flights, ATC assigned each airplane a transponder code to monitor its progress on radar.. etc, etc, etc

Are you telling me that every single employee of American Airlines and United Airlines were in on this conspiracy? Expedia and Orbitz must have been in on the conspiracy as well.

How could a dozen people pull that off? Answer that question for me (with logic) and I will forever believe in a 9/11 conspiracy. for the record I will also post the OP's links in my sig if you can answer that for me.

My guess is you can't.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: CLite
As a human being, 9/11 wackos piss me off because it's clear they have no social interaction (besides internet forums) from a day to day basis. Anyone with the least bit of daily human interaction would realize such a grandiose conspiracy requiring thousands upon thousands of people to maliciously plot to death of over three thousand citizens is impossible.

No dude, seriously, Bush was every inch an evil genius.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The conspiracy theory revolves around few issues.

1) Were the planes needed and responsbile for the collapse of the towers (ignoring the Pentagon/WH targets). How many people on the ground had to be in on the plane use?

2) Why were explosives planted in the towers and not in the DC targets. We know rats exist in the government and support services. Explosives could have been planted in the DC buildings and activated - why the need for aircraft?

3) What is the amount of explosives that would be needed to take out the towers. No theorist has yet been able state how much explosive and where is was planted / controlled from.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
2. If it were a conspiracy, I don't think it would have required "thousands upon thousands" of people involved and "in the know"... A few dozen, at most, would have been enough. As for what's keeping them quiet: The first best two incentives are money and fear. Anyone can be blackmailed into doing anything these days - for his sake, or his family's. Or they could simply be killed afterwards. History is full of examples.

Maybe you can answer this for me since I cannot get an answer from any other consipracy theorists...

We have 4 flights that day...
United Flight 175 and United 93
American Airlines Flight 11 and 77.

You say only a few dozen would have been needed. How about those flights were published months in advance. Multiple companies sold tickets on those flights. The morning of those flights the pilots were briefed by a dispatcher, those planes were fueled and cleaned and loaded by airport and airline personnel, mechanics worked on those airplanes, gate agents loaded passengers, ATC received flight plans for those flights, the pilots contacted the FAA for permission to commence those flights, ATC assigned each airplane a transponder code to monitor its progress on radar.. etc, etc, etc

Are you telling me that every single employee of American Airlines and United Airlines were in on this conspiracy? Expedia and Orbitz must have been in on the conspiracy as well.

How could a dozen people pull that off? Answer that question for me (with logic) and I will forever believe in a 9/11 conspiracy. for the record I will also post the OP's links in my sig if you can answer that for me.

My guess is you can't.

Your post makes a good point.... unfortunately, it starts with the wrong premise. Most of the people you list did NOT have to be clued in... just collateral damage.

Also, ever since Ford instituted the concept of "limited responsibility" on the assembly line, and the model took off in many other aspects of our everyday lives, things have become much more compartmentalized, and it's easy to segregate by just using the "mind your own damn business" notion.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

i wish i could LOL, but crackpots culture makes me cry a little inside

pitiful

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
3. I don't think any government is above killing its own people in order to reach political or economic gains. The U.S. is no exception...on the contrary. A quick example comes to mind, since it was used as a comparison event: Pearl Harbor. Only in recent years did it come to light that Washington knew the attack will take place, but chose to keep quiet and use it as a reason to enter WWII.

You're deliberately mis-stating the Pearl Harbor incident.

Did we have early intelligence suggesting that a Japanese attack somewhere between Japan and the west coast (including Alaska and Hawai'i) was possible soon? Yes. Did we "know" that an attack specifically on Pearl Harbor was imminent? No. The Pacific Ocean is a very big place, after all. In fact, the prevailing military view at the time was that a Japanese attack on Philippines, Thailand, the Malaysian Peninsula or Borneo was most likely.

But, but, but, the carriers were ordered out on maneuvers! We must have known!

Sorry, but the value of the aircraft carrier was not proven until the Battle of Midway some six months after Pearl Harbor. At the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, the US Navy's position was that aircraft carriers were useful as reconnaissance tools, but not as a chief offensive weapon. Prior to the Battle of Midway, the destroyer was considered to be the most important weapon in the Navy's arsenal. Not even an incompetent military planner would have allowed the destroyers to be used as sacrificial bait. Had we known of the attack, it would have been the destroyers out on maneuvers and not the carriers.

You're attempting to use a debunked conspiracy theory to legitimize another conspiracy theory. Logic doesn't work that way.

ZV