Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: event8horizon

Now here lies the rub: Jone's red chips do not contain zinc, although some WTC iron-rich particles do indeed contain significant amounts of zinc. Nevertheless, zinc is essentially absent from Jones' red chips, thus it looks like these mystery particles are definitely not paint chips."

Google welding + zinc for what happens to zinc at high temps and why welders hate working with the stuff. I doubt there was even much zinc in the primer to begin with.


Really that guy needs to hurry up and patent his gravity defying thermite. Everyone else has thermite that only burns down towards gravity. He has some that burns sideways, up , around corners and through walls !

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: event8horizon
even ole greening dosent think it is the primer.
-a post from greening
"It's quite difficult to get much information on the WTC primer paint but it is mentioned in Appendix D of NIST NCSTAR 1-3C, pages 433 - 438. Here you find a Table D-1 which gives the chemical composition of the primer. The main inorganic constituents are iron oxide, "zinc yellow", "Tnemec pigment of proprietary composition" and diatomaceous silica.

Now the Tnemec pigment caught my eye, but the fact that it's described as having a "proprietary composition" suggests that this material's chemical ingredients are "top secret". However, in the modern world of "right-to-know" legislation, you can determine the composition of just about any proprietary material by looking up its associated MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet).

I have done this for Tnemec's Series 010 Red Primer and this is what I have found reported as the ingredients:

Iron-oxide fume
Zinc compounds with traces of cobalt
Quartz and amorphous silica (SiO2)
Talc (Mg3Si4O10(OH)2)
Calcium Silicates and Aluminates

Now here lies the rub: Jone's red chips do not contain zinc, although some WTC iron-rich particles do indeed contain significant amounts of zinc. Nevertheless, zinc is essentially absent from Jones' red chips, thus it looks like these mystery particles are definitely not paint chips."

http://the911forum.freeforums....-wtc-dust-t150-15.html

Jones's chips don't contain Zinc? From page 17 of Jones's paper:

Prior to soaking the chip in MEK an XEDS spectrum was
acquired from an area of the red-layer surface. The resulting
spectrum, shown in Fig. (14), produced the expected peaks
for Fe, Si, Al, O, and C. Other peaks included calcium, sulfur,
zinc, chromium and potassium. The occurrence of these
elements could be attributed to surface contamination due to
the fact that the analysis was performed on the as-collected
surface of the red layer. The large Ca and S peaks may be
due to contamination with gypsum from the pulverized wallboard
material in the buildings.

 

[event8horizon]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: event8horizon
even ole greening dosent think it is the primer.
-a post from greening
"It's quite difficult to get much information on the WTC primer paint but it is mentioned in Appendix D of NIST NCSTAR 1-3C, pages 433 - 438. Here you find a Table D-1 which gives the chemical composition of the primer. The main inorganic constituents are iron oxide, "zinc yellow", "Tnemec pigment of proprietary composition" and diatomaceous silica.

Now the Tnemec pigment caught my eye, but the fact that it's described as having a "proprietary composition" suggests that this material's chemical ingredients are "top secret". However, in the modern world of "right-to-know" legislation, you can determine the composition of just about any proprietary material by looking up its associated MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet).

I have done this for Tnemec's Series 010 Red Primer and this is what I have found reported as the ingredients:

Iron-oxide fume
Zinc compounds with traces of cobalt
Quartz and amorphous silica (SiO2)
Talc (Mg3Si4O10(OH)2)
Calcium Silicates and Aluminates

Now here lies the rub: Jone's red chips do not contain zinc, although some WTC iron-rich particles do indeed contain significant amounts of zinc. Nevertheless, zinc is essentially absent from Jones' red chips, thus it looks like these mystery particles are definitely not paint chips."

http://the911forum.freeforums....-wtc-dust-t150-15.html

Jones's chips don't contain Zinc? From page 17 of Jones's paper:

Prior to soaking the chip in MEK an XEDS spectrum was
acquired from an area of the red-layer surface. The resulting
spectrum, shown in Fig. (14), produced the expected peaks
for Fe, Si, Al, O, and C. Other peaks included calcium, sulfur,
zinc, chromium and potassium. The occurrence of these
elements could be attributed to surface contamination due to
the fact that the analysis was performed on the as-collected
surface of the red layer. The large Ca and S peaks may be
due to contamination with gypsum from the pulverized wallboard
material in the buildings.

excellent question. i also was wondering the same thing and i found the answer. this is from the 911 forum. this is a post by greening that shows an email between him and the researchers.


Here are Jones and Legge's responses to my e-mail:

Thank you, Dr. Legge, for your response.

I would add that Figure 7 shows spectra from chips which had been
fractured so as to expose a fresh surface, because we were well aware
by this time of the problem of surface contamination by other WTC dust
(which is loaded with CaSO4 also Zn and Cr etc.).

Dr. Greening: Indeed, if you will examine Figs 16, 17, and 18 or
various regions on this same chip AFTER the MEK soaking, you will
observe no zinc... indicating that the MEK soaking with agitation has
removed surface dust/contamination. Excuse us for not cleaning the
chip before the first SEM/XEDS examination, but note that this is
essentially all pro bono work -- and we spent a great of "free" time
examining the chip after it had been soaked and were not in a position
to start fresh.

You claimed (Dr. Greening): "Now this is very significant because the
XEDS spectrum you present in Figure
14 of your report is essentially a perfect match for Tnemec red primer
paint, particularly because of the Zn and Cr content. "

- I very highly doubt it: I challenge you to demonstrate your claim
QUANTITATIVELY or even semi-quantitatively. The mere presence of Si,
Ca, S, etc. is not enough for "essentially a perfect match", as you
must know.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: event8horizon

tis sad that mr pizza is attacking the messenger. try reading the article and comment on it.

Well, that's a mighty compelling argument. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm convinced.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: event8horizon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: event8horizon
even ole greening dosent think it is the primer.
-a post from greening
"It's quite difficult to get much information on the WTC primer paint but it is mentioned in Appendix D of NIST NCSTAR 1-3C, pages 433 - 438. Here you find a Table D-1 which gives the chemical composition of the primer. The main inorganic constituents are iron oxide, "zinc yellow", "Tnemec pigment of proprietary composition" and diatomaceous silica.

Now the Tnemec pigment caught my eye, but the fact that it's described as having a "proprietary composition" suggests that this material's chemical ingredients are "top secret". However, in the modern world of "right-to-know" legislation, you can determine the composition of just about any proprietary material by looking up its associated MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet).

I have done this for Tnemec's Series 010 Red Primer and this is what I have found reported as the ingredients:

Iron-oxide fume
Zinc compounds with traces of cobalt
Quartz and amorphous silica (SiO2)
Talc (Mg3Si4O10(OH)2)
Calcium Silicates and Aluminates

Now here lies the rub: Jone's red chips do not contain zinc, although some WTC iron-rich particles do indeed contain significant amounts of zinc. Nevertheless, zinc is essentially absent from Jones' red chips, thus it looks like these mystery particles are definitely not paint chips."

http://the911forum.freeforums....-wtc-dust-t150-15.html

Jones's chips don't contain Zinc? From page 17 of Jones's paper:

Prior to soaking the chip in MEK an XEDS spectrum was
acquired from an area of the red-layer surface. The resulting
spectrum, shown in Fig. (14), produced the expected peaks
for Fe, Si, Al, O, and C. Other peaks included calcium, sulfur,
zinc, chromium and potassium. The occurrence of these
elements could be attributed to surface contamination due to
the fact that the analysis was performed on the as-collected
surface of the red layer. The large Ca and S peaks may be
due to contamination with gypsum from the pulverized wallboard
material in the buildings.

excellent question. i also was wondering the same thing and i found the answer. this is from the 911 forum. this is a post by greening that shows an email between him and the researchers.


Here are Jones and Legge's responses to my e-mail:

Thank you, Dr. Legge, for your response.

I would add that Figure 7 shows spectra from chips which had been
fractured so as to expose a fresh surface, because we were well aware
by this time of the problem of surface contamination by other WTC dust
(which is loaded with CaSO4 also Zn and Cr etc.).

Dr. Greening: Indeed, if you will examine Figs 16, 17, and 18 or
various regions on this same chip AFTER the MEK soaking, you will
observe no zinc... indicating that the MEK soaking with agitation has
removed surface dust/contamination. Excuse us for not cleaning the
chip before the first SEM/XEDS examination, but note that this is
essentially all pro bono work -- and we spent a great of "free" time
examining the chip after it had been soaked and were not in a position
to start fresh.

You claimed (Dr. Greening): "Now this is very significant because the
XEDS spectrum you present in Figure
14 of your report is essentially a perfect match for Tnemec red primer
paint, particularly because of the Zn and Cr content. "

- I very highly doubt it: I challenge you to demonstrate your claim
QUANTITATIVELY or even semi-quantitatively. The mere presence of Si,
Ca, S, etc. is not enough for "essentially a perfect match", as you
must know.

Link please? I'd prefer to read the entire exchange myself.

 

[Babbles]

This is just sad.

 

[event8horizon]

tlc- about half way down the thread.

http://the911forum.freeforums....-wtc-dust-t150-15.html


I would add that Figure 7 shows spectra from chips which had been
fractured so as to expose a fresh surface, because we were well aware
by this time of the problem of surface contamination by other WTC dust
(which is loaded with CaSO4 also Zn and Cr etc.).

Dr. Greening: Indeed, if you will examine Figs 16, 17, and 18 or
various regions on this same chip AFTER the MEK soaking, you will
observe no zinc... indicating that the MEK soaking with agitation has
removed surface dust/contamination. Excuse us for not cleaning the
chip before the first SEM/XEDS examination, but note that this is
essentially all pro bono work -- and we spent a great of "free" time
examining the chip after it had been soaked and were not in a position
to start fresh.

You claimed (Dr. Greening): "Now this is very significant because the
XEDS spectrum you present in Figure
14 of your report is essentially a perfect match for Tnemec red primer
paint, particularly because of the Zn and Cr content. "

- I very highly doubt it: I challenge you to demonstrate your claim
QUANTITATIVELY or even semi-quantitatively. The mere presence of Si,
Ca, S, etc. is not enough for "essentially a perfect match", as you
must know.

 

[wwswimming]

Jim Hoffman has a good essay on the variety of demolition technologies that may have been used on 9-11, excerpt below.

http://911research.wtc7.net/es...evidence_timeline.html

Jim's website is WTC7.net.

For AT'ers who are interested in finding out about 9-11, I also suggest the 9-11 Timeline (which shreds the official claim that the US government had no foreknowledge) @
http://www.historycommons.org/...sp?project=911_project

Also, Michael Ruppert's investigation into the war-games on 9-11 in his book "Crossing the Rubicon" is very thorough.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/


"Wake Up and Smell the Aluminothermic Nanocomposite Explosives
As Documentation of Thermitic Materials
in the WTC Twin Towers Grows,
Official Story Backers Ignore, Deny, Evade, and Dissemble
by
Jim Hoffman
Version 1.0, April 3, 2009
Introduction

The obliteration of the Twin Towers was the centerpiece of the event that launched the 'War on Terror'. Shocking on multiple levels, the events were especially traumatic for Americans, being the first bombing on the US mainland in modern history that killed thousands of people -- civilians -- in one day. Given the collective psychological trauma of the attack, it is not surprising that public discourse would remain free of observations that the destruction of the Twin Towers bore obvious features of controlled demolitions. Early candid public remarks by reporters and demolition experts where quickly retracted or forgotten. Passage of the USA PATRIOT Act and the invasion of Afghanistan would proceed apace.

By 2003 the United States had occupations of two countries, and an international reputation as a rogue state all resting on a shaky-at-best collapse theory whose principal alternative hypothesis -- controlled demolition with pre-planted pyrotechnics -- had not even been tested by the straightforward forensic analysis of debris for residues of such materials.

By early 2009, the residue testing that NIST refused to do had been done by independent researchers, and reported on in a peer-reviewed chemistry journal. Small bi-layered chips, found consistently in dust samples, have layers of red nano-engineered material that is clearly aluminothermic: it has sub-micron-diameter particles of largely of elemental aluminum, and smaller crystalline grains of primarily Fe2O3. On ignition, the chips produce temperatures above the melting point of iron, leaving tiny iron droplets matching the residues of commercial thermite pyrotechnics.

The publication of these results should be astounding to anyone who uncritically accepted the collapse explanations in TV documentaries and never looked seriously at any of the several bodies of evidence for controlled demolition."

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: event8horizon
tlc- about half way down the thread.

http://the911forum.freeforums....-wtc-dust-t150-15.html


I would add that Figure 7 shows spectra from chips which had been
fractured so as to expose a fresh surface, because we were well aware
by this time of the problem of surface contamination by other WTC dust
(which is loaded with CaSO4 also Zn and Cr etc.).

Dr. Greening: Indeed, if you will examine Figs 16, 17, and 18 or
various regions on this same chip AFTER the MEK soaking, you will
observe no zinc... indicating that the MEK soaking with agitation has
removed surface dust/contamination. Excuse us for not cleaning the
chip before the first SEM/XEDS examination, but note that this is
essentially all pro bono work -- and we spent a great of "free" time
examining the chip after it had been soaked and were not in a position
to start fresh.

You claimed (Dr. Greening): "Now this is very significant because the
XEDS spectrum you present in Figure
14 of your report is essentially a perfect match for Tnemec red primer
paint, particularly because of the Zn and Cr content. "

- I very highly doubt it: I challenge you to demonstrate your claim
QUANTITATIVELY or even semi-quantitatively. The mere presence of Si,
Ca, S, etc. is not enough for "essentially a perfect match", as you
must know.

If you keep on reading, Greening explains why he is not satisified with that answer as some things don't add up.

I think you need to understand that Jones simply providing a response doesn't mean the issued is settled or that the answer he provided is/was the correct one.

 

[BeauJangles]

*facefuckingpalm*

If you want to argue this bullshit again, we need to unlock the previous thread in which every single one of this baseless, poorly researched arguments was so thoroughly refuted that the thread was locked because event8horizon was talking in circles... exactly what's happening here.

Don't you guys see the pattern?

Truther says x.
X gets blown up.
Truther argues variant of x.
X variant gets blown up.
Truther forgets about x and starts in on y.

rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
*facefuckingpalm*

Don't you guys see the pattern?

Truther says x.
X gets blown up.
Truther argues variant of x.
X variant gets blown up.
Truther forgets about x and starts in on y.

rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

this x infinity. why you guys bother is beyond me.

 

[event8horizon]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
*facefuckingpalm*

If you want to argue this bullshit again, we need to unlock the previous thread in which every single one of this baseless, poorly researched arguments was so thoroughly refuted that the thread was locked because event8horizon was talking in circles... exactly what's happening here.

Don't you guys see the pattern?

Truther says x.
X gets blown up.
Truther argues variant of x.
X variant gets blown up.
Truther forgets about x and starts in on y.

rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

and the only website u link is full of speculation and no science. maybe they will buy the primer and test it and put out a journal article of their own. until then, nanothermite was found in the dust of the wtc.

 

[JohnnyGage]

Originally posted by: event8horizon

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
*facefuckingpalm*

If you want to argue this bullshit again, we need to unlock the previous thread in which every single one of this baseless, poorly researched arguments was so thoroughly refuted that the thread was locked because event8horizon was talking in circles... exactly what's happening here.

Don't you guys see the pattern?

Truther says x.
X gets blown up.
Truther argues variant of x.
X variant gets blown up.
Truther forgets about x and starts in on y.

rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

and the only website u link is full of speculation and no science.

You should know.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: event8horizon

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
*facefuckingpalm*

If you want to argue this bullshit again, we need to unlock the previous thread in which every single one of this baseless, poorly researched arguments was so thoroughly refuted that the thread was locked because event8horizon was talking in circles... exactly what's happening here.

Don't you guys see the pattern?

Truther says x.
X gets blown up.
Truther argues variant of x.
X variant gets blown up.
Truther forgets about x and starts in on y.

rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

and the only website u link is full of speculation and no science. maybe they will buy the primer and test it and put out a journal article of their own. until then, nanothermite was found in the dust of the wtc.

Until then, Jones is claiming he found nano-thermite using shoddy reasoning and crappy science and analysis techniques. Until he fixes up the vast number of problems with his paper his will be nothing more than another wacky 9/11 conspiracy theory with no firm proof.

I find it ironic that you're always demanding FEMA, NIST, et all to do a more detailed investigation. Why is it that you don't seem nearly as eager when it comes to Jones's claim? You got the answer you're looking for so stop there less it get torn to shreds, like basically every truther claim does eventually?

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Until then, Jones is claiming he found nano-thermite using shoddy reasoning and crappy science and analysis techniques. Until he fixes up the vast number of problems with his paper his will be nothing more than another wacky 9/11 conspiracy theory with no firm proof.

I find it ironic that you're always demanding FEMA, NIST, et all to do a more detailed investigation. Why is it that you don't seem nearly as eager when it comes to Jones's claim? You got the answer you're looking for so stop there less it get torn to shreds, like basically every truther claim does eventually?

Uhh, his will ALWAYS be another wacky 9/11 conspiracy theory. But, he'll always have "firm proof" - he's one step ahead. As his last piece of "proof" is thoroughly debunked, he creates another piece of "proof" to take its place.