ACLU Threatens Lawsuit After Wisconsin Police Seize Man's Upside-Down American Flag

[jonks]

Originally posted by: sapiens74
ACLU has this one right

Guy can wipe his ass with his flag, cause it's his flag.

The officers should be charged with Trespassing and theft as well as the DA

open and shut case. It's not even a close call. The "distress" or "disruption" canards would get this look from the judge.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Flying the flag upside down to signal distress was for SHIPS AT SEA . It is not a land signal for distress and is no longer to be used at sea, instead you have a special distress flag for that.
As for taking the guys flag, the ACLU has no case. They are not preventing him flying it any other time except when the crowd was there. You can't put up anything that causes a public disturbance. If you fly a flag with a happy face on it and people gather and start to get violent, the police will make you take it down.

Remember the law is to peacefully assemble.

That's right, and don't you even dare to think of not giving up your seat on the bus or marching through them upscale neighborhoods, can't have any violent outbursts ensue that the police might have to control with fire hoses and dogs.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: yowolabi


Edit:
It has nothing to do with how the crowd "feels". The first amendment specifically protects your right to say and do things which offend people, as long as you don't put them at risk like the famous "fire in a crowded theater" example.

This is a stupid freaking argument anyway. It's already been ruled by the Supreme Court that you can't outlaw flag burning, and you're trying to make the case that flag "displaying" can be outlawed. That's nonsensical.

It isn't displaying it that is illegal. It is the context in which it was displayed. Are they stopping him from displaying it today ? No. Because it isn't causing a problem that could result in people being hurt. If a guy put signs in his yard saying "American soldiers are murderers and rapist" and crowds gather and start throwing things, would you have the police guard the home for the rest of the guys life to stop people from harming him ? The guy has a right to his opinion right ? Wrong. You can say how you feel right up to the point that people begin to become physical , at that point it is no longer you expressing your opinion but instead reckless endangerment which does not require intent.

But it's not "ILLEGAL" to improperly display the flag, beit upside down, at half-staff, or laying in the dirt. Those may be considered disrespectful by some, but they're not ILLEGAL. there are no LAWS that restrict the flying or treatment of the US Flag...nor should there be.
The US Flag Code makes "advisory rules for the proper care and display" of the US flag, and while these rules ARE part of the US Code, (title 4) you'll not that the wording is "SHOULD," not SHALL...a big distinction.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc..._00000008----000-.html

"(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."

If you think that this display should be ILLEGAL, than how about enforcing this as well:

"The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker?s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general."

Look at all the US flag apparel sold in this country...especially around the 4th of July...should they be jailed for such, or have their hats, shirts, etc. taken from them?

Or this:

"The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. "

Again, around the major "Patriotic holidays," look at all the merchant ads that have US Flags in them. Should those be outlawed and the companies, their advertising departments/and the media who display the ads all be criminally charged?


Or this:

"No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart."

Let's start jailing every US Olympic athlete who drapes himself/herself with the US Flag...THAT'S a great way to show our freedoms! :roll:


Personally, I am often disgusted by some of the disrespect shown to the flag of my country...but I'll fight for their right to do so, whether I like it or not...

One of my biggest "pet peeves," is the redneck who flys a flag in the bed of his pickup. Driving around, especially at speeds over 30 mph, just beats that flag to tatters...and I really doubt that they then take their flag to the local VFW or Boy Scout group for proper disposal...

Hell, if you want to disrespect the US Flag, burn the dammed thing in protest...at least that's destroying it in some kind of statement besides, "Wooohoo! Hey y'all, lookit me!"

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: arkcom

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: spidey07
Then go fly a nice big flag, upside down, on a flag pole and see what happens. I'm not making my experience up - probably why I'm the only one with this point of view...personal experience.

So do you think the police were correct to seize the flag in this instance? Or would there have been a more appropriate way of dealing with this potential problem?

Shouldn't have seized it. Both sides acted like jackasses. Like I said, I can go either way on this one and both are somewhat right and somewhat wrong.

There had to be some other way for the owner to handle this, same with the police.

Perhaps you missed the part where the small business owner is having his liquor license application denied after having investing some $200k into his small business in a struggling small town? And that now he faces bankruptcy because the local govt won't let him serve alcohol on his own property? And then they're restricting his freedom of speech and unlawfully seizing his property? Oh yeah, you sure do value freedom, spidey! :roll:

Maybe he should have checked into that liquor license before spending 200k.

actaully i posted the story months ago. i will see if i can find it.

but anyway what happened is he was talking with the city to get a liquar license. the head guy said sure if you do a long list of stuff he would get it. most of that was on redoing the place (wich is where the bulk of the $200k comes from) where the resturant would be. since it is a historic building he had to spent a lot keeping it in the same style and such.

The liquar commish pretty much told him he had it. then it went up for vote and the cimmishiner said no. This after the guy said he would get it if he spent all the money redoing the building.

 

[ZeGermans]

but my symbol of imperlism and world-wide oppression is being confiscated

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: JS80
i don't get why the ACLU is defending him though. he wasn't doing it to be anti-american.

You do understand what the ACLU does, right?

Yes, they defend anti-american behavior in the guise of protecting the Constitution.

What you meant to say is that they defend unpopular speech, but that YOU believe it's perfectly okay for the government to suppress unpopular speech.

I think it's an IQ thing. You need to have a certain IQ before you can see that if the other guy isn't free to express his opinion, you may not be either.

 

[manowar821]

Well, the nation is in distress, so I fail to see the fucking problem with stating the obvious in flag-form. Then again, it has been for the better part of a century and nobody gives a shit.