ACLU Threatens Lawsuit After Wisconsin Police Seize Man's Upside-Down American Flag

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,007
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Gonna have to side with the ACLU on this one. What was the DA thinking???


ACLU Threatens Lawsuit After Wisconsin Police Seize Man's Upside-Down American Flag
Friday, July 10, 2009

AP

WAUSAU, Wis. ? An American flag flown upside down as a protest in a northern Wisconsin village was seized by police before a Fourth of July parade and the businessman who flew it ? an Iraq war veteran ? claims the officers trespassed and stole his property.

A day after the parade, police returned the flag and the man's protest ? over a liquor license ? continued.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin is considering legal action against the village of Crivitz for violating Vito Congine Jr.'s' First Amendment rights, Executive Director Chris Ahmuty said.

"It is not often that you see something this blatant," Ahmuty said.

In mid-June, Congine, 46, began flying the flag upside down ? an accepted way to signal distress ? outside the restaurant he wants to open in Crivitz, a village of about 1,000 people some 65 miles north of Green Bay.

He said his distress is likely bankruptcy because the village board refused to grant him a liquor license after he spent nearly $200,000 to buy and remodel a downtown building for an Italian supper club.

Congine's upside-down-flag represents distress to him; to others in town, it represents disrespect of the flag.

Hours before a Fourth of July parade, four police officers went to Congine's property and removed the flag under the advice of Marinette County District Attorney Allen Brey.

Neighbor Steven Klein watched in disbelief.

"I said, 'What are you doing?' Klein said. "They said, 'It is none of your business."'

The next day, police returned the flag.

Brey declined comment Friday.

Marinette County Sheriff Jim Kanikula said it was not illegal to fly the flag upside down but people were upset and it was the Fourth of July.

"It is illegal to cause a disruption," he said.

The parade went on without any problems, Kanikula said.

Village President John Deschane, 60, an Army veteran who served in Vietnam, said many people in town believe it's disrespectful to fly the flag upside down.

"If he wants to protest, let him protest but find a different way to do it," Deschane said.

Congine, a Marine veteran who served in Iraq in 2004, said he intends to keep flying the flag upside down.

"It is pretty bad when I go and fight a tyrannical government somewhere else," Congine said, "and then I come home to find it right here at my front door."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,531525,00.html
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
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Could be considered a problem. Distress means you need assistance or something really bad is going on. This is exactly like yelling fire in a crowded theater, that's not protected.

I see the angle that it was a disruption. Really could go either way on this one.

And upside down flag could have emergency services called to assist you so it's also like a false 911 call.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: spidey07
Could be considered a problem. Distress means you need assistance or something really bad is going on. This is exactly like yelling fire in a crowded theater, that's not protected.

I see the angle that it was a disruption. Really could go either way on this one.

And upside down flag could have emergency services called to assist you so it's also like a false 911 call.

Tell me, could you keep a straight face while typing that? Honestly?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: spidey07
Could be considered a problem. Distress means you need assistance or something really bad is going on. This is exactly like yelling fire in a crowded theater, that's not protected.

I see the angle that it was a disruption. Really could go either way on this one.

And upside down flag could have emergency services called to assist you so it's also like a false 911 call.

Tell me, could you keep a straight face while typing that? Honestly?

Yes I could. I accidentally flew the flag upside down once and had EMS, fire and police show up asking if I needed assistance. Caused a big ruckus.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
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81
i don't get why the ACLU is defending him though. he wasn't doing it to be anti-american.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: spidey07
Could be considered a problem. Distress means you need assistance or something really bad is going on. This is exactly like yelling fire in a crowded theater, that's not protected.

I see the angle that it was a disruption. Really could go either way on this one.

And upside down flag could have emergency services called to assist you so it's also like a false 911 call.

Tell me, could you keep a straight face while typing that? Honestly?

Yes I could. I accidentally flew the flag upside down once and had EMS, fire and police show up asking if I needed assistance. Caused a big ruckus.

:Q
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
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0
Originally posted by: JS80
i don't get why the ACLU is defending him though. he wasn't doing it to be anti-american.

You do understand what the ACLU does, right?
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
60,659
15,847
136
Originally posted by: JS80
i don't get why the ACLU is defending him though. he wasn't doing it to be anti-american.

Because the ACLU is not anti-American. Duh.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: spidey07
Could be considered a problem. Distress means you need assistance or something really bad is going on. This is exactly like yelling fire in a crowded theater, that's not protected.

I see the angle that it was a disruption. Really could go either way on this one.

And upside down flag could have emergency services called to assist you so it's also like a false 911 call.

LOL WHAT. Nobody is going to call 911 over an emergency just because they see an upside down flag. Those signals used to be used on ships at sea and i don't think anyone does it anymore. It's NOTHING like yelling fire in a crowded theater.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: JS80
i don't get why the ACLU is defending him though. he wasn't doing it to be anti-american.

You do understand what the ACLU does, right?

Yes, they defend anti-american behavior in the guise of protecting the Constitution.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
Could be considered a problem. Distress means you need assistance or something really bad is going on. This is exactly like yelling fire in a crowded theater, that's not protected.

I see the angle that it was a disruption. Really could go either way on this one.

And upside down flag could have emergency services called to assist you so it's also like a false 911 call.

I don't think it should have been taken away but I do agree that it's stupid that flying the flag upside down is so widely considered a protest rather than a sign of distress. Makes it difficult to use the upside down flag for its original purpose.

I don't really agree that it would be likely to cause confusion though (mainly because of the universal use as a sign of protest I mentioned).
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,288
7
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: spidey07
Could be considered a problem. Distress means you need assistance or something really bad is going on. This is exactly like yelling fire in a crowded theater, that's not protected.

I see the angle that it was a disruption. Really could go either way on this one.

And upside down flag could have emergency services called to assist you so it's also like a false 911 call.

Tell me, could you keep a straight face while typing that? Honestly?

Yes I could. I accidentally flew the flag upside down once and had EMS, fire and police show up asking if I needed assistance. Caused a big ruckus.

How the hell do you accidentally fly the flag upside down?
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: JS80
i don't get why the ACLU is defending him though. he wasn't doing it to be anti-american.

dear god you're fucking retarded
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: spidey07
Could be considered a problem. Distress means you need assistance or something really bad is going on. This is exactly like yelling fire in a crowded theater, that's not protected.

I see the angle that it was a disruption. Really could go either way on this one.

And upside down flag could have emergency services called to assist you so it's also like a false 911 call.

LOL WHAT. Nobody is going to call 911 over an emergency just because they see an upside down flag. Those signals used to be used on ships at sea and i don't think anyone does it anymore. It's NOTHING like yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Fly a flag upside down then, a big one, outside. I honestly do have personal experience with this.

Holy crap! The OP is actually a nice big flag on a flag pole. Yes that is absolutely a disruption and a clear distress signal.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
60,659
15,847
136
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: JS80
i don't get why the ACLU is defending him though. he wasn't doing it to be anti-american.

You do understand what the ACLU does, right?

Yes, they defend anti-american behavior in the guise of protecting the Constitution.

Do you actually believe the stupid things you type?
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: spidey07
Could be considered a problem. Distress means you need assistance or something really bad is going on. This is exactly like yelling fire in a crowded theater, that's not protected.

I see the angle that it was a disruption. Really could go either way on this one.

And upside down flag could have emergency services called to assist you so it's also like a false 911 call.

LOL WHAT. Nobody is going to call 911 over an emergency just because they see an upside down flag. Those signals used to be used on ships at sea and i don't think anyone does it anymore. It's NOTHING like yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Fly a flag upside down then, a big one, outside. I honestly do have personal experience with this.

What? Were you at sea? Sure there are going to be pissed off people at you for being 'unpatriotic' or whatever, but nobody's going to call 911 because they think your house is on fire or some other dire emergency :roll:
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: JS80
i don't get why the ACLU is defending him though. he wasn't doing it to be anti-american.

You do understand what the ACLU does, right?

Yes, they defend anti-american behavior in the guise of protecting the Constitution.

Are you fucking serious?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Phokus

What? Were you at sea? Sure there are going to be pissed off people at you for being 'unpatriotic' or whatever, but nobody's going to call 911 because they think your house is on fire or some other dire emergency :roll:

Then go fly a nice big flag, upside down, on a flag pole and see what happens. I'm not making my experience up - probably why I'm the only one with this point of view...personal experience.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: JS80
i don't get why the ACLU is defending him though. he wasn't doing it to be anti-american.

You do understand what the ACLU does, right?

Yes, they defend anti-american behavior in the guise of protecting the Constitution.

I hope my sarcasm meter is broken, because no one can be this dumb.