[Acer] Acer announces 4K Display with G-Sync

[hawtdawg]

I've been spoiled by PVA/MVA/IPS. I won't buy another TN panel. Eh...

I've been spoiled by plasma televisions. All LCD monitors are trash.

 

[BrightCandle]

Yeah they didn't mention the price either, but I doubt its below $1000.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I've been spoiled by plasma televisions. All LCD monitors are trash.

If you can find plasma monitor, more power to you 😛

 

[QuantumPion]

You aren't going to see an IPS 120hz monitor for some time. They struggle to even switch the pixels within 16ms let alone the 8ms that is necessary. IPS just doesn't have the speed to support 120hz at this point and its not looking like it will anytime soon. Its a technology designed for colour professionals like photo and video editors, its not a gaming panel technology because while it looks good on a static image it looks blurry in motion.

I don't know about LG IPS but my Samsung PLS runs at 120 hz just fine. The only side effect is the gamma/brightness/contrast gets a bit wonky but the pixel refresh speed is there.

 

[Denithor]

If you can find plasma monitor, more power consumed by you 😛

Fixed that for you. LOL

 

[hawtdawg]

If you can find plasma monitor, more power to you 😛

my point is that all LCD monitors are shit in one way or another. dogging TN while praising IPS and VA is silly. IPS have god awful black levels, and VA monitors have gamma shifting.

 

[blastingcap]

I think I'd rather have the ASUS, but competition is good and helps drive down prices. I'm still waiting for IPS versions to come out.

 

[Black Octagon]

I don't know about LG IPS but my Samsung PLS runs at 120 hz just fine. The only side effect is the gamma/brightness/contrast gets a bit wonky but the pixel refresh speed is there.

My IPS LG also runs 'fine' OCd to 120Hz but BrightCandle is saying that these panels' slower pixel response times result in pixel colour changes that often can't quite keep up with 120Hz's screen refresh every 8.33ms. The visual result of this is more motion blur than one tends to see on a native 120hz TN panel with fast pixel response times

 

[BrightCandle]

Typically IPS pixels respond between 12-20ms depending on the colour to colour adjustment. A TN pixel on a 144hz monitor can do the same thing in 1-5ms. Even at 60hz the IPS monitors have a lot of motion blur, because the pixels are in constant moving state when the scene is changing, they are always in transition. The TNs on the other hand get to where they are meant to be (overshoot unfortunately) quickly and then sit still for the rest of the frame. Under motion when you do them side by side the IPS is a better image stood still but in motion the TN monitor is much clearer.

I actually had a lot of problems on a high quality IPS (Dell 2410) because I found that my games looked amazing colour wise but I just couldn't effectively aim and shoot in my FPS games. I tend to strife a lot around corners, its part of my aiming process and that is about the worst case for a high blur monitor. I could not initially work out what was wrong, I just thought it was me but then I heard about the new Nvision 2 monitors and the benefits of 144hz and on CRTs I used to run 100hz+ so I figured I would try it and see if it helped. As soon as I got it even on 60hz I realised what the problem was with the IPS, it was the motion blur. I don't personally care what people buy, if people want to run around with an IPS and some rubbish Logitech mouse that is fine, its just another person helping to improve my K/D.

But as always with my advice on monitors I do urge a bit of caution. I am an ex pro gamer, I use a flawless mouse which I take to near failure speed, I think I want to try 240hz or more etc etc. I probably have less tolerance for performance issues than most. I mostly play FPS games. I do play a wide range of games but I choose most of my kit to cope with FPS games as that is my stable go to game and its what I am best at.

 

[imaheadcase]

I guess you missed the worst part of it all..
The Acer XB280HK starts shipping in Q2 in Pan America, EMEA, Japan, and Taiwan.

That about settles that.

 

[Wild Thing]

Typically IPS pixels respond between 12-20ms depending on the colour to colour adjustment. A TN pixel on a 144hz monitor can do the same thing in 1-5ms. Even at 60hz the IPS monitors have a lot of motion blur, because the pixels are in constant moving state when the scene is changing, they are always in transition. The TNs on the other hand get to where they are meant to be (overshoot unfortunately) quickly and then sit still for the rest of the frame. Under motion when you do them side by side the IPS is a better image stood still but in motion the TN monitor is much clearer.

I actually had a lot of problems on a high quality IPS (Dell 2410) because I found that my games looked amazing colour wise but I just couldn't effectively aim and shoot in my FPS games. I tend to strife a lot around corners, its part of my aiming process and that is about the worst case for a high blur monitor. I could not initially work out what was wrong, I just thought it was me but then I heard about the new Nvision 2 monitors and the benefits of 144hz and on CRTs I used to run 100hz+ so I figured I would try it and see if it helped. As soon as I got it even on 60hz I realised what the problem was with the IPS, it was the motion blur. I don't personally care what people buy, if people want to run around with an IPS and some rubbish Logitech mouse that is fine, its just another person helping to improve my K/D.

But as always with my advice on monitors I do urge a bit of caution. I am an ex pro gamer, I use a flawless mouse which I take to near failure speed, I think I want to try 240hz or more etc etc. I probably have less tolerance for performance issues than most. I mostly play FPS games. I do play a wide range of games but I choose most of my kit to cope with FPS games as that is my stable go to game and its what I am best at.

Just out of interest,who was paying you to play professionally and roughly how much per year?
Were you able to win any notable tournaments and was the prize money given to you or your sponsors?

 

[Mand]

I guess you missed the worst part of it all..
The Acer XB280HK starts shipping in Q2 in Pan America, EMEA, Japan, and Taiwan.

That about settles that.

This is bad...why?

 

[stahlhart]

Just out of interest,who was paying you to play professionally and roughly how much per year?
Were you able to win any notable tournaments and was the prize money given to you or your sponsors?

This is irrelevant to the discussion. Take it to PM, and don't derail the thread.
-- stahlhart

 

[bystander36]

Typically IPS pixels respond between 12-20ms depending on the colour to colour adjustment. A TN pixel on a 144hz monitor can do the same thing in 1-5ms. Even at 60hz the IPS monitors have a lot of motion blur, because the pixels are in constant moving state when the scene is changing, they are always in transition. The TNs on the other hand get to where they are meant to be (overshoot unfortunately) quickly and then sit still for the rest of the frame. Under motion when you do them side by side the IPS is a better image stood still but in motion the TN monitor is much clearer.

I actually had a lot of problems on a high quality IPS (Dell 2410) because I found that my games looked amazing colour wise but I just couldn't effectively aim and shoot in my FPS games. I tend to strife a lot around corners, its part of my aiming process and that is about the worst case for a high blur monitor. I could not initially work out what was wrong, I just thought it was me but then I heard about the new Nvision 2 monitors and the benefits of 144hz and on CRTs I used to run 100hz+ so I figured I would try it and see if it helped. As soon as I got it even on 60hz I realised what the problem was with the IPS, it was the motion blur. I don't personally care what people buy, if people want to run around with an IPS and some rubbish Logitech mouse that is fine, its just another person helping to improve my K/D.

But as always with my advice on monitors I do urge a bit of caution. I am an ex pro gamer, I use a flawless mouse which I take to near failure speed, I think I want to try 240hz or more etc etc. I probably have less tolerance for performance issues than most. I mostly play FPS games. I do play a wide range of games but I choose most of my kit to cope with FPS games as that is my stable go to game and its what I am best at.

This is something that I've been aware of for a while now, but you managed to get me thinking of one more thought related to this which I had not thought about much before.

Under motion, due to the TN panel's superior pixel response, and the IPS panels poor response, wouldn't the colors be more accurate with the TN display?

 

[sontin]

my point is that all LCD monitors are shit in one way or another. dogging TN while praising IPS and VA is silly. IPS have god awful black levels, and VA monitors have gamma shifting.

VA pixel response goes up to 40ms+. That is not even enough for 30Hz...

 

[Black Octagon]

This is something that I've been aware of for a while now, but you managed to get me thinking of one more thought related to this which I had not thought about much before.

Under motion, due to the TN panel's superior pixel response, and the IPS panels poor response, wouldn't the colors be more accurate with the TN display?

It suppose it could if motion blur affected colour...but does it? I didn't think it did

 

[blackened23]

4K with Gsync is a good idea. Unfortunately it'll be TN from the 170 degree viewing angles which is not cool.

Correct. But really, what's the better answer? Currently you can get a 10 bit IZGO panel with perfect viewing angles for color critical work and 4k resolution which will basically cost you north 2000$+ in most cases.

Or you can make concessions and get a TN based 4k panel for under 1000$. What's preferable? I certainly would not use a TN panel for any color critical work, but for gaming? What's the problem? TN is generally fine for gaming. Now I prefer IPS myself for productivity, but AFAIK there are no IPS 4k panels. There's IZGO and TN. I could be mistaken on that, but there's an OBVIOUS cost difference between the two technologies.

Hopefully IZGO will lower in price in the coming years. It's just how panel technology has been, it's always a give or take and nothing is perfect. IPS has great viewing angles and color accuracy, but has horrible contrast ratios and poor black levels. AMVA panels have good viewing angles (note AMVA not VA) and retains great contrast ratios and great black levels, but doesn't have the response time that TN has (it is better than IPS, worse than TN). Then TN has the worst viewing angles, not so great black levels, but amazing response times (for an LCD) and are great for gaming.

What's the best answer? It really depends. I'd say for gaming, a TN panel is fine. Most gamers simply don't do any type of work on their monitors that require any extent of color accuracy; so TN would be fine for that type of use. Or you can get IZGO for color critical work and pay much, much more. But I wouldn't characterize IZGO as the best solution for gaming. If IZGO had price parity with TN, then the argument could be made for it.....but IZGO costs 2-3 times more than TN at this time. With worse response times to boot. So that essentially means professional work = IZGO, gaming = TN.

Really, it's still early yet for 4k. None of the solutions are ideal. Personally the ROG Swift 1440p 144hz monitor is on my to buy list, 4k is just not mature enough yet to get my $.

 

[imaheadcase]

This is bad...why?

No North America.

 

[bystander36]

It suppose it could if motion blur affected colour...but does it? I didn't think it did

Slow pixel response means it takes longer for the pixel to change to the correct color. Under motion, that means the pixels are constantly changing color. With very slow pixel response times, they may never reach the correct color before changing to something else.

Motion blur is a result of incorrect color at any given time.

 

[x3sphere]

Correct. But really, what's the better answer? Currently you can get a 10 bit IZGO panel with perfect viewing angles for color critical work and 4k resolution which will basically cost you north 2000$+ in most cases.

Or you can make concessions and get a TN based 4k panel for under 1000$. What's preferable? I certainly would not use a TN panel for any color critical work, but for gaming? What's the problem? TN is generally fine for gaming. Now I prefer IPS myself for productivity, but AFAIK there are no IPS 4k panels. There's IZGO and TN. I could be mistaken on that, but there's an OBVIOUS cost difference between the two technologies.

Hopefully IZGO will lower in price in the coming years. It's just how panel technology has been, it's always a give or take and nothing is perfect. IPS has great viewing angles and color accuracy, but has horrible contrast ratios and poor black levels. AMVA panels have good viewing angles (note AMVA not VA) and retains great contrast ratios and great black levels, but doesn't have the response time that TN has (it is better than IPS, worse than TN). Then TN has the worst viewing angles, not so great black levels, but amazing response times (for an LCD) and are great for gaming.

What's the best answer? It really depends. I'd say for gaming, a TN panel is fine. Most gamers simply don't do any type of work on their monitors that require any extent of color accuracy; so TN would be fine for that type of use. Or you can get IZGO for color critical work and pay much, much more. But I wouldn't characterize IZGO as the best solution for gaming. If IZGO had price parity with TN, then the argument could be made for it.....but IZGO costs 2-3 times more than TN at this time. With worse response times to boot. So that essentially means professional work = IZGO, gaming = TN.

Really, it's still early yet for 4k. None of the solutions are ideal. Personally the ROG Swift 1440p 144hz monitor is on my to buy list, 4k is just not mature enough yet to get my $.

Technically there are IPS 4K panels out there, LG's 4K TVs are all IPS. But as far as smaller monitors go, you're right.

4K TVs are already down to $1500 from quality brands (LG has a 49" for that much). I'm expecting the next wave of 4K monitors to be much more affordable - sub $1k for an IPS seems likely even.

 

[Mand]

No North America.

What, exactly, do you think Pan America means?

 

[3DVagabond]

I guess you missed the worst part of it all..
The Acer XB280HK starts shipping in Q2 in Pan America, EMEA, Japan, and Taiwan.

That about settles that.

Interesting. Why not elsewhere? Supply reasons? Licensing reasons? IP infringement? Really curious they are skipping most of the developed world with such a hitech product.

 

[ViRGE]

Interesting. Why not elsewhere? Supply reasons? Licensing reasons? IP infringement? Really curious they are skipping most of the developed world with such a hitech product.

Huh? Pan America, EMEA, Japan, and Taiwan essentially covers everything but India, Australia, Russia, Africa, and a few oceanic countries. That monitor is going to most of the developed world.

As for why, I wouldn't be surprised if they only did direct distribution in those regions.

 

[lehtv]

What, exactly, do you think Pan America means?

It's the part of the Americas in the immediate vicinity of Panama, obviously.

Huh? Pan America, EMEA, Japan, and Taiwan essentially covers everything but India, Australia, Russia, Africa, and a few oceanic countries.

EMEA includes Russia and Africa. All of Asia east of Iran is not included (except for Russia)... so no China, for instance.

 

[BrightCandle]

Motion blur = incorrect colour for a long time. One way to talk about the IPS v TN (high speed well overdriven TN anyway, some of them are just rubbish) is that the IPS has worse colour in motion than the TN, but when you stand still the IPS looks better. Question is do you move around a lot in a game or do you stand looking at a static area. Really depends on the games and your play style. If you run and gun for example you'll find that hard to do on an IPS, the blur will impact your brains ability to aim. But if you tend to fight from cover aiming at a particular point waiting out your enemies then the blur is less impact to get an IPS.

The main use of 4k in my mind is again content professionals or gamers. These two clear markets exist and there isn't any media and such in between. But since all the TNs are 60hz I would wait to see a quality review on somewhere like tftcentral.co.uk because not all TNs are well overdriven, and overshoots and undershoots can really wreck the image under motion.