• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

According to Christianity, people who don't accept Jesus as their savior go to Hell?

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
timosyy said:
Eh, I look at the world and don't exactly see singing daisies and rainbow-farting unicorns. It's a pretty messed up place. I would argue it is that way because of human selfishness. And I know my life/relationships with other people are marked by that same selfishness, as much as I try to live otherwise.

What I meant by referencing that quote was that "Hell" isn't some kind of cosmic "gotcha" or place you're held against your will. As C.S. Lewis would say, without self-choice there is no Hell.
Click to expand...
Nature itself is pretty messed up and unpleasant, and it can do that without humans doing anything. A lot of the life on the planet survives by preying on other life, and the prey is almost invariably an unwilling participant in the process. Some plants and animals contain things which have the specific effect of being toxic to other life forms. And of course, one of my favorites, an infectious organism that will literally eat your brain. Beyond that, there are natural disasters, which can also be quite effective at damaging life. The fossil record shows mass extinctions, where many species were purged from existence.
Nature conjured up all this crazy crap on its own long before anything resembling a human even began walking upright.



grrl said:
Nor is hell.
Click to expand...
And like I say, it's a good thing the Bible was written so very clearly, to avoid misunderstandings. That's why all Christians agree completely as to its teachings and ideals. :awe:
 
MARK 16:15-16
And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the
gospel to the whole creation.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who
does not believe will be condemned.
Click to expand...

You only go to hell if you do not believe after you have been introduced to God.
 
Watched it. Htchens' arguments against Christianity all have theological answers and has been discussed for the past 2 millenia. One thing I really don't agree with is:

He thinks it is wishful thinking to believe in Christianity and Christ's redemption of man.

When I heard that I thought that it's not wishful to believe in something you think is true.

Basically, saying it's wishful to believe in Jesus' ultimate gift assumes that the gift is false and unreal.

Stay with me on this. Of course it's wishful to believe something that's not real. But is it really wishful to believe something that is real? By using the words "wishful" Hitchens assumes Christianity is not real and attacks it by using that.

I took your challenge and Hitchens doesn't convince me of his position in the slightest.

Another point is that devoted Christians should believe that Satan is speaking through Hitchens. And we all know how badly Satan wants to discredit God's work.

totalnoob said:
I challenge every fair-minded religious person here to watch Christopher Hitchens' opening statement (15 minutes, from 8:00-23:00) without being deconverted into an instant agnostic/atheist.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...s+debate&hl=en&view=3&dur=3&client=firefox-a#

🙂
Click to expand...
 
RoloMather said:
Watched it. Htchens' arguments against Christianity all have theological answers and has been discussed for the past 2 millenia. One thing I really don't agree with is:

He thinks it is wishful thinking to believe in Christianity and Christ's redemption of man.

When I heard that I thought that it's not wishful to believe in something you think is true.

Basically, saying it's wishful to believe in Jesus' ultimate gift assumes that the gift is false and unreal.

Stay with me on this. Of course it's wishful to believe something that's not real. But is it really wishful to believe something that is real? By using the words "wishful" Hitchens assumes Christianity is not real and attacks it by using that.

I took your challenge and Hitchens doesn't convince me of his position in the slightest.

Another point is that devoted Christians should believe that Satan is speaking through Hitchens. And we all know how badly Satan wants to discredit God's work.
Click to expand...

Wut?
 
If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders are clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers.
Sun Tzu

aka, it's gods fault I don't believe in him. He failed to give clear orders.
 
I won't even bother reading through each page to see how many morons there are passing judgement on the Christian faith based solely on what they've read in media and/or their own experiences in the Roman Catholic church (yes, I specifically point out the RCC, which is an institution compared to the non-denominational Christian churches)

A debate between an Atheist would be more constructive given the fact that most Atheists I know have a greater knowledge (but not understanding) of the scriptures than non-believers.

/thread
 
RoloMather said:
When I heard that I thought that it's not wishful to believe in something you think is true.
Click to expand...

This isn't an issue about whether or not you believe it's true. It's about the idea itself..that the idea of vicarious redemption is both immoral and nonsensical. As he said...If you step on my foot, I can forgive you. If you steal my money, I can forgive you. If you step on someone else's foot and rob them, forgiveness is not mine to give. I can't wash away your sins or absolve you of your responsibility. This is called scapegoating.. The idea that your sins can be thrown on someone else (Jesus) and forgiven by that person's execution is an incredibly immoral idea. It makes a mockery of justice, and is no comfort at all to the victims you have wronged. Someone with a more rational view of the world would say that YOU have the responsibility to make amends for your crimes..that you must offer restitution to your victims and act to reform your character before you even have the right to ask for forgiveness. Merely looking at the ceiling and saying "I accept Jesus" aint gonna cut it..It doesn't make things right between you and the world, no matter how comforting it may be to believe it does.
 
Last edited:
totalnoob said:
The idea that your sins can be thrown on someone else (Jesus) and forgiven by that person's execution is an incredibly immoral idea. It makes a mockery of justice, and is no comfort at all to the victims you have wronged.
Click to expand...

It doesn't sound immoral to me.

1) Morality is derived from God. What God does can't be immoral.

2) God's justice demands rewarding good and punishing sins. But because he love us so much he himself willingly accepts punishment for our sake. In my perspective the suffering and death of the Ultimate far trumps any sins of man.

3) Some argue (CS Lewis comes to mind) that Christ's death and resurrection is the only way humanity can be redeemed. There are no better alternatives.
 
RoloMather said:
It doesn't sound immoral to me.

1) Morality is derived from God. What God does can't be immoral.

2) God's justice demands rewarding good and punishing sins. But because he love us so much he himself willingly accepts punishment for our sake. In my perspective the suffering and death of the Ultimate far trumps any sins of man.

3) Some argue (CS Lewis comes to mind) that Christ's death and resurrection is the only way humanity can be redeemed. There are no better alternatives.
Click to expand...

There is no God, yet Morality exists. Explain that.
 
Define morality. If you are referring to common laws that exist between cultures, then it is safe to say they things early groups of humans found necessary in order to function in groups and have easier lives (and thus procreate more).

If you are talking about sexual repression, anti-abortion, etc then you should know your 'morals' are not 'morals' to every culture, and thus not common morality and thus not from god.
 
Rolo, have you forgotten the parable of the good Samaritan? Jesus told his followers of an act of kindness he had witnessed (or heard about). By definition this event had to take place before Christianity became a religion and LONG before Jesus's teachings spread through the world..proving that human empathy and kindness predate Christianity by a long shot. As Hitchens said in the video, it is an insult to the ancient Jews to assume they dragged themselves to Mount Sinai while under the assumption that murder, rape, theft, adultery, incest, etc were perfectly acceptable, only to learn after Moses came down with the 10 commandments that they had been mistaken. You should have more self respect, and more respect for human integrity than to assume we'd become a bunch of barbaric kitten-killing savages in the absence of that great celestial surveillance camera you believe in.
 
Last edited:
OP, in reference to your original question of whether non-Christians will go to hell, realize that "Hell" is more of a generic term, much like "Kleenex" or "Scotch" tape. It's used to describe any number of situations, usually of the fire and brimstone variety.

What the Bible describes is that non-believers will not be allowed to enjoy the love and grace of God, and will be cast out to spend an eternity being punished for their lack of faith. Believe me, there's plenty of people over the years that have joked about the eternal party that will happen in hell, having central A/C put in, soft ice cream, etc.

But suspend disbelief for a moment, and consider this. Suppose there really is a God, and that God is perfect, and loves you, unconditionally. Pretty much the same way that every parent loves their baby the first time they hold that child, even though they have no idea what sort of person that baby will become as they grow up. Imagine how warm and fuzzy that kind of love is, the way you would feel as though you have a blanket of love draped over you, all the time, protecting you from all that isn't good in the universe.

Now imagine knowing that that love exists......and you've lost your opportunity to enjoy it, for all of eternity. Imagine the absolute absence of love. Not hatred, just indifference. For ever and ever and ever. That might just suck a little, wouldn't it?

AreaCode707 had a pretty decent reply to your question. The only thing I would change is this quote:
I see Christianity as one of the LEAST judgmental religions
Click to expand...
to use the word FAITH instead of religion. You see, I personally believe that when man started characterizing the Christian faith with his own interpretation of what the Bible says, he created religion, and that the religions are screwing up what should be perfect faith. One religion says this, the other says that, they all look like a bunch of bickering idiots.....and then they wonder why modern man has such a problem believing in God!! 🙄
The Bible says that Jesus put it pretty simply. Believe in God with all your heart, believe that you are imperfect (a sinner who will never be perfect enough to enter the kingdom of God on your own, aka "Heaven"), and believe that God sent his son, Jesus, to sacrifice himself for you, so your sin wouldn't be held accountable against you. Oh, and you have to love Him as if you were a child, not the conditional love that adults often give. Confused by that? Ever had your two to five year old kid come running up to you when you get home, just ecstatically happy that you're home?? That's pretty much loving as a child loves......unconditionally. Even if you yelled at him/her, they'd still love you and want to be with you.

For those that scoff at Christians, call them believers in fairy tales, etc, I offer you this. You tell me that I'm foolish for believing in a God that I cannot see, hear or touch.....that there is no scientific proof that he exists. I tell you that I also believe in gravity, even though I cannot see it. I believe in the air that I breathe, even though I cannot see it. And I believe in God. This world we live in may have it's faults, but if I have to choose between believing that it was created by a higher being, or simply an accident of the universe, I'm still going to believe in God.

Guess we'll see some day who's right. For your sake, you might want to hope it's you. In the meantime, have a nice life! ()🙂
 
Of course human morality predates Christianity. Humans were here before Christ came. The source of our goodness comes from God, who created us.

God created us long before he sent his only son to save us.

The 10 commandments is a list of things God really don't want you to do. I'm certain that Christ's blood covers all the sins on the 10 commandments.

It's your pride that believe humanity has self inherent goodness apart from God.

God is not a like surveillance camera. He doesn't just watch. He gets involved. He's like a really good friend that knows your deepest thoughts and is always there to help you.
 
Good to see this is getting resolved once and for all.

I'll send out the press release as soon as a unanimous concensus is met.
 
RoloMather said:
The source of our goodness comes from God, who created us.
Click to expand...
Proof?

God is not a like surveillance camera. He doesn't just watch. He gets involved.
Click to expand...

Proof of supernatural interventions? Just one piece of evidence will do. Kthx.

He's like a really good friend that knows your deepest thoughts and is always there to help you.
Click to expand...

That's how I always thought of my teddy bear..but then I grew up.
 
marvdmartian said:
For those that scoff at Christians, call them believers in fairy tales, etc, I offer you this. You tell me that I'm foolish for believing in a God that I cannot see, hear or touch.....that there is no scientific proof that he exists. I tell you that I also believe in gravity, even though I cannot see it. I believe in the air that I breathe, even though I cannot see it. And I believe in God. This world we live in may have it's faults, but if I have to choose between believing that it was created by a higher being, or simply an accident of the universe, I'm still going to believe in God.

Guess we'll see some day who's right. For your sake, you might want to hope it's you. In the meantime, have a nice life! ()🙂
Click to expand...

Science fail. You believe in gravity because you can test it. You may not understand it, but obviously you can predict what will happen using the understood theory of gravity. Thus science.

You believe in air, again because it is testable, (and yes) visible. You can see air if you really wanted to, it is a collection of particles. You can test the theory that we need air by locking yourself in an air tight bottle and removing all the air.

You believe in god for one reason. Someone at some point told you to and you trust them. Maybe you trust them because you were a child and things told to children tend to stick with them. Maybe you were an addict and you needed some kind of reason to shift blame. Maybe it was because you simply don't want the responsibility of fixing your own life. I don't know why. But you can't test it. Instead, you come up with weak ass reason to convince yourself. You get 'feelings', or 'warm and fuzzys' about it. No different then any other human coping mechanism.

You can't create theories about what god will do, there is no consistency, no reasoning, no science. God has no more validity then I do when I say I am all powerful and all knowing. All the excuses his followers make for him work for me as well.

The problem for me however is not that people believe in silly imaginary things, it's what they extrapolate from those beliefs and then try to impose on the world. They hold back the rest of the world from being better. They create wars over nothing, and they hurt humanity as a whole. My belief is that if I am wrong and god does exist, then he must truly be evil.
 
"You must believe and act the way we tell you to do, or you will go to a place full of pain and misery for all eternity."

Religion...mind control for the unwashed masses.
 
MagnusTheBrewer said:
Lol, you think Catholics aren't Christian?
Click to expand...

alot of fire and brimstone asshole christians think that we're not truly christians. We were doing a service trip down in new orleans after katrina and a baptist church let our group stay in one of their trailers. The pastor ended up lecturing us about how we're all going to hell 🙄. its a shame that there's so many divisions within christianity, but it's the way it is since the bible is interpreted in so many different ways
 
Last edited:
how do the same people have the energy to constantly discuss this shit?

people believe what they believe, whoever takes issue with other people's spiritual choices and beliefs is a fucking idiot.

live and let live. the internet is for talking about boobies and video games.
 
marvdmartian said:
OP, in reference to your original question of whether non-Christians will go to hell, realize that "Hell" is more of a generic term, much like "Kleenex" or "Scotch" tape. It's used to describe any number of situations, usually of the fire and brimstone variety.

What the Bible describes is that non-believers will not be allowed to enjoy the love and grace of God, and will be cast out to spend an eternity being punished for their lack of faith. Believe me, there's plenty of people over the years that have joked about the eternal party that will happen in hell, having central A/C put in, soft ice cream, etc.

But suspend disbelief for a moment, and consider this. Suppose there really is a God, and that God is perfect, and loves you, unconditionally. Pretty much the same way that every parent loves their baby the first time they hold that child, even though they have no idea what sort of person that baby will become as they grow up. Imagine how warm and fuzzy that kind of love is, the way you would feel as though you have a blanket of love draped over you, all the time, protecting you from all that isn't good in the universe.

Now imagine knowing that that love exists......and you've lost your opportunity to enjoy it, for all of eternity. Imagine the absolute absence of love. Not hatred, just indifference. For ever and ever and ever. That might just suck a little, wouldn't it?

AreaCode707 had a pretty decent reply to your question. The only thing I would change is this quote:

to use the word FAITH instead of religion. You see, I personally believe that when man started characterizing the Christian faith with his own interpretation of what the Bible says, he created religion, and that the religions are screwing up what should be perfect faith. One religion says this, the other says that, they all look like a bunch of bickering idiots.....and then they wonder why modern man has such a problem believing in God!! 🙄
The Bible says that Jesus put it pretty simply. Believe in God with all your heart, believe that you are imperfect (a sinner who will never be perfect enough to enter the kingdom of God on your own, aka "Heaven"), and believe that God sent his son, Jesus, to sacrifice himself for you, so your sin wouldn't be held accountable against you. Oh, and you have to love Him as if you were a child, not the conditional love that adults often give. Confused by that? Ever had your two to five year old kid come running up to you when you get home, just ecstatically happy that you're home?? That's pretty much loving as a child loves......unconditionally. Even if you yelled at him/her, they'd still love you and want to be with you.

For those that scoff at Christians, call them believers in fairy tales, etc, I offer you this. You tell me that I'm foolish for believing in a God that I cannot see, hear or touch.....that there is no scientific proof that he exists. I tell you that I also believe in gravity, even though I cannot see it. I believe in the air that I breathe, even though I cannot see it. And I believe in God. This world we live in may have it's faults, but if I have to choose between believing that it was created by a higher being, or simply an accident of the universe, I'm still going to believe in God.

Guess we'll see some day who's right. For your sake, you might want to hope it's you. In the meantime, have a nice life! ()🙂
Click to expand...

Ok, let's try this a different way: Suppose God is real and It is just as Immoral and a big of Asshole as the Bible(particularly Old Testament) shows it was. Now what do you do?

Do you Kill people because It told you to? Do you commit Genocide because it told you to? Own Slaves?

I will agree with many, Christians are generally very Moral people. So much so in fact that they happen to be more Moral than the God they profess to Believe in and supposedly gave them Morals to begin with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top