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According to Christianity, people who don't accept Jesus as their savior go to Hell?

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El Guaraguao said:
If what you're saying is true, what was the point of christian crusades?
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I doubt most people participated in the Crusades for religious zeal, and if they did, were probably quickly disillusioned. Whatever the surface excuse for a war is, the real reasons are generally economic in nature.

The firstborn sons of Europe got everything or nearly all of it as inheritance. For non-firstborn, it made more sense to risk life and limb in the Holy Land for a chance at riches, land, and fame. If the religious authorities said you'd go to heaven for it, you'd probably feel better about the risks too.
 
Fritzo said:
LOL- how can a church founded by Christ not be considered Chirstian? They're like the original Christian church and all the others are offshoots.
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It's more to do with the organization and politics of the Catholic church (like recognizing The Pope as the spiritual leader, etc.). I've had conversations with a few Christians about this. Not sure if they are all like this, but in NY everyone who is not Catholic is either a Jew, Buddhist, or agnostic/atheist 🙂
 
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OILFIELDTRASH said:
Could some of the scientific peps tell me if there is no God why do we have a conscience? Or a inner voice that tells you something is wrong with what you're doing? Wouldn't that just get in the way of Darwinism? I mean if you just shit on someone to get what you want isn't that just what Darwinism is about? Why would you care? The animals don't care.
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The animals do care (and remember). Ever heard of "I scratch your back, you scratch mine"? In the short run, cheaters (ones who take all the benefits, but give none back) win, but in the long run, others (even animals) are less likely to help them if their help has not been reciprocated in the past. Thus a certain level of conscience, helping, etc is helpful to the survival of a group/species.

If all of a particular group consisted of ruthless cheaters, how long do you think such a group would be able to last?
 
sandorski said:
Ok, let's try this a different way: Suppose God is real

Do you Kill people because It told you to? Do you commit Genocide because it told you to? Own Slaves?

I will agree with many, Christians are generally very Moral people. So much so in fact that they happen to be more Moral than the God they profess to Believe in and supposedly gave them Morals to begin with.
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Yes. If God told me to then I would.

If you knew 100% that he exists, wouldn't you?

I would not go against an omnipotent and omniscient being's will. That's just asking for trouble and I ain't that stupid.

Of course, you have to make sure it's really God telling you these things instead of some demon.

It's pretty easy for me to differentiate between good and evil since I have the Holy Spirit telling me God's will.
 
The whole premise is flawed.

Pretend it is a movie.

PLOT:

A guy who knows everything and is 100% all powerful decides to create a race of lessor beings that don't know everything and are not all powerful, then for fun, he lets one of them revolt against him and sends him to a bad place. Apparently for fun he gave them free will.

Then he decides to do it again, only this time on a rock. And for fun again, he gives them free will. Again 100% confused as to why without clear direction and instructions these people don't do what he wants, so he gets angry and floods the entire god damn rock until everyone is dead but a guy on a boat. Then impregnates a lady, has the child wander around performing feats of magic, and finally lets the rest of the humans kill his kid. After that he just gets bored, and sits off in the corner scoring the humans with much less interest waiting for the day he can punish them. Oh yea, for fun, he lets the guy who tried to take him down torment the humans because, hey, being all knowing doesn't mean your all knowing, and you need to test that.

Somehow all of this still doesn't prove he's not all knowing. The plot is thin, the story is tripe, and it simply still does not make any sense.
 
RoloMather said:
Yes. If God told me to then I would.

If you knew 100% that he exists, wouldn't you?

I would not go against an omnipotent and omniscient being's will. That's just asking for trouble and I ain't that stupid.

Of course, you have to make sure it's really God telling you these things instead of some demon.

It's pretty easy for me to differentiate between good and evil since I have the Holy Spirit telling me God's will.
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lol, so you would act Immorally because It told you to. Where does Morality come from again?
 
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sandorski said:
lol, so you would act Immorally because It told you to. Where does Morality come from again?
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Perhaps I wasn't being clear.

Yes, I would do anything God commands. What would God command me to do?

Would God command me to sin?

No.

Would Satan try to trick me to sin?

Yes.

God is sinless and pure good so he would not ask man to do sinful things.
 
RoloMather said:
Yes. If God told me to then I would.

If you knew 100% that he exists, wouldn't you?

I would not go against an omnipotent and omniscient being's will. That's just asking for trouble and I ain't that stupid.

Of course, you have to make sure it's really God telling you these things instead of some demon.

It's pretty easy for me to differentiate between good and evil since I have the Holy Spirit telling me God's will.
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Wait what? You're completely full of it. If some entity told you to go commit genocide, how do you know it's God telling you this and not the devil?
 
RoloMather said:
Perhaps I wasn't being clear.

Yes, I would do anything God commands. What would God command me to do?

Would God command me to sin?

No.

Would Satan try to trick me to sin?

Yes.

God is sinless and pure good so he would not ask man to do sinful things.
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Did It not command Israel to commit Genocide? Did it not command Abraham to kill his son?

God has no problem with Sin, if It wants to commit it. Your God is Satan.
 
RoloMather said:
Yes. If God told me to then I would.

If you knew 100% that he exists, wouldn't you?

I would not go against an omnipotent and omniscient being's will. That's just asking for trouble and I ain't that stupid.

Of course, you have to make sure it's really God telling you these things instead of some demon.

It's pretty easy for me to differentiate between good and evil since I have the Holy Spirit telling me God's will.
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Hell no I wouldn't, I have morals.
 
Why did god make satan? Why does god allow satan to torment and trick man?

s God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

put another way

God is all-powerful.
God is perfectly good.
Evil exists.
If God exists, there would be no evil.
Therefore God does not exist.
 
Examples of people that go to heaven:
* Priests who use Christianity as a shield to molest and rape boys, even some who have killed, but accept Jesus and God.
* Murderers who kill entire families after raping and dismembering people but accept Jesus into their lives right before they get the electric chair.
* Crusaders who went into villages, raping women, killing children, and stealing their wealth but accepted Jesus.

Examples of people that go to hell:
* Indiginous people of a jungle who live their whole lives in nature, killing only the animals that they need to use as food, living a good loving life.
* Hindus or any other major non-christian religion, despite the fact they could have been excessively good to their families, loving parents, good friends, and people that have made the world a better place.
* Atheists who have developed their own system of morality based upon right and wrong, helped the sick and the poor, taught the young, and loved their friends and family through and through.

Yeah heaven sounds like a great place.
 
sourceninja said:
The plot is thin, the story is tripe, and it simply still does not make any sense.
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It doesn't make sense because you have not read enough theology.

Let me try to explain to you how I see the story.

1) God is all powerful and all knowing.

2) He decides to create the Universe to glorify himself and share his immeasurable love and goodness with creatures smart enough to recognize this gift.

3) He gives free will to his creations because it helps glorify God. With free will, man can recognize that God is good and willingly follow him. That contributes to the glory of God.

3.1) What I mean by free will is the choice of each man to follow God or not lies with the man and not with God.

4) Because it is His will that his creation gets free will, problems will occur. The chief culprit, Satan, exercised his free will to oppose God and in the process, also corrupted man.

5) God cannot tolerate sin. Therefore man cannot be with God anymore.

6) Which means that man automatically goes to Hell when he dies.

7) But God love man so much he himself took the punishment for man's sins.

7.1) This punishment is required because God is perfect and His perfect Justice requires punishment for sins.

8) Any man who accept Jesus Christ's gift is in the eye of God forgiven and sin free. Man's debt to God has been paid in full.

9) Sin free people get to live with God, whose dwelling place is called Heaven.
 
RoloMather said:
Perhaps I wasn't being clear.

Yes, I would do anything God commands. What would God command me to do?

Would God command me to sin?

No.

Would Satan try to trick me to sin?

Yes.

God is sinless and pure good so he would not ask man to do sinful things.
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So if you spoke to god, and he told you to rape children, kill them, then cut up their bodies, you would do it?
 
RoloMather said:
It doesn't make sense because you have not read enough theology.

Let me try to explain to you how I see the story.

1) God is all powerful and all knowing.

2) He decides to create the Universe to glorify himself and share his immeasurable love and goodness with creatures smart enough to recognize this gift.

3) He gives free will to his creations because it helps glorify God. With free will, man can recognize that God is good and willingly follow him. That contributes to the glory of God.

3.1) What I mean by free will is the choice of each man to follow God or not lies with the man and not with God.

4) Because it is His will that his creation gets free will, problems will occur. The chief culprit, Satan, exercised his free will to oppose God and in the process, also corrupted man.

5) God cannot tolerate sin. Therefore man cannot be with God anymore.

6) Which means that man automatically goes to Hell when he dies.

7) But God love man so much he himself took the punishment for man's sins.

7.1) This punishment is required because God is perfect and His perfect Justice requires punishment for sins.

8) Any man who accept Jesus Christ's gift is in the eye of God forgiven and sin free. Man's debt to God has been paid in full.

9) Sin free people get to live with God, whose dwelling place is called Heaven.
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God created sin, but cannot tolerate it? That makes no sense dude. If he's all powerful, and all knowing, then he would have known what he was doing when he created sin.
 
sandorski said:
Did It not command Israel to commit Genocide? Did it not command Abraham to kill his son?

God has no problem with Sin, if It wants to commit it. Your God is Satan.
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Exactly, if God is all powerful and all knowing, then it's pretty obvious from looking at the Bible that he commanded people on multiple occasions to commit sin. Heck he made it a condition that if you want to continue on as a species, you have to sin to reproduce. If he's all knowing, then he knew that when he created us we would have to sin, if he's all powerful he made it happen on purpose.

Therefore god created sin and encouraged us to sin.
 
sourceninja said:
Why did god make satan? Why does god allow satan to torment and trick man?

s God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

put another way

God is all-powerful.
God is perfectly good.
Evil exists.
If God exists, there would be no evil.
Therefore God does not exist.
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False arguments. Read "The Problem of Pain" by CS Lewis. He wrote a whole book arguing against this.

Evil exists because of God's will that man have free will. God allow Satan to torment man because it will only serve to glorify him (Jesus) further when he comes and defeats Satan.

Basically man will know God is good because man have seen Satan's evil.

Man will know God's glory because he will effortlessly defeat Satan, a supernatural spirit man could never hope to overcome by himself.
 
RoloMather said:
False arguments. Read "The Problem of Pain" by CS Lewis. He wrote a whole book arguing against this.

Evil exists because of God's will that man have free will. God allow Satan to torment man because it will only serve to glorify him (Jesus) further when he comes and defeats Satan.

Basically man will know God is good because man have seen Satan's evil.

Man will know God's glory because he will effortlessly defeat Satan, a supernatural spirit man could never hope to overcome by himself.
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Wrong. If god is all knowing, as you said, then he obviously knew what he was doing when he created evil, it's therefore certain that he created evil on purpose. Therefore god would be both good and evil.
 
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