ACA (a.k.a. Obamacare) Upheld

[Wreckem]

So why not raise it 20% now and have an extra 2 years of massive profits?

They already are. Some companies raised rates by 30% in 2009. And most have been steadily raising them 10% every year since, all while cutting the numbers of enrolled customers.

Insurance companies have had 50-90% increases to profit year over year, for the past several years.

 

[Infohawk]

The reality is, there is no way to lower healthcare costs if you are simply just looking at health insurance.

There's a free market way to do it and a government way to do it. Don't like act like it's impossible for the free market to sort out the issue of costs. Personally, I think the current system is worst of all possible scenarios. A truly free market or government-run system would both lower costs.

 

[michal1980]

Today America began the transition into the global society of the sane.
In the near future, now we can once again send our kids to college, save for retirement, and pay down our debt, instead of dumping all our income into healthcare cost followed by home foreclosure and finally bankruptcy.
And the healthcare freeloader? You day has ended.
And for the family with a child seriously ill? You child can now look forward to a healthy outcome. Instead of sending mom n dad into bankruptcy court. Dropped from coverage.

The Obama administration must began educating people on the benefits of healthcare reform.
THEY MUST!!!
Because republicans are going to begin telling falsehoods in avalanche proportion to mislead and out right lie to Americans. And they have all the money in the world to do just that.

Healthcare for all Americans, affordable, where everyone pays their way is the American way. Freeloaders beware. Your ride has hit a dead end.

Why republicans lie about this still blatantly exposes their hatred of a black president.
This has become crystal clear. More so now than ever before.
Romney-care is the basis for this reform. Romney cheered on the mandate when governor.
Republicans cheered on nearly every party of healthcare reform, that was until a black president pushed their idea.
But we already knew all that.... Right?

This is the same fairy tale shit that was sold to the country when medicare and s.s. were sold to us.

And we all know how those costs played out. SS is about to fail. And medicare is about to completely bankrupt the country.

But instead of fixing those failures, people on the left, just double down on stupid ideas. All the while creating more goverment depedants, (ie goverment slaves) to buy themsevles votes.

P.S Race card? Really? Thats how low you have to go?

 

[sportage]

You mean except for those on Medicaid right? Which Obamacare expands.

I'm just addressing those under 30 that feel they are immortal, refuse taking healthcare offered by the employer, THEN show up in some ER expecting free quality care they have no intention of paying for. Like they feel healthcare is some freebie right granted to all.
Just because there is a gas station on every corner doesn't mean you deserve free gas.
I know so many damn kids that work and could easily afford their low cost employer based health plan, but turn it down. Many of them married and with a child.
Then their child gets sick, they take a mean fall, or get in a car wreck and expect a free ride through the healthcare system on my tab.
Nada goin to be that way any more.....

And this was originally a republican idea. A conservative idea. I guess in that way, yes im an old fashion conservative.
I expect the guy that runs into my car to have car insurance. Damn straight.
I expect anyone interacting with others in the real world to be responsible for their actions.
I do not expect to pay for someone else deciding they need not have medical insurance.

 

[Infohawk]

I'm just addressing those under 30 that feel they are immortal, refuse taking healthcare offered by the employer, THEN show up in some ER expecting free quality care they have no intention of paying for.

How does often that really happen? Most of the people who don't have health insurance probably can't afford it. With the ridiculous premiums out there, that includes a lot of working and middle class people.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

SS is about to fail.

It is not about to fail. And if it ever gets close to failing, it can be easily corrected.

Please stop pretending that the right really cares about the budget or the deficit or entitlement programs. Last time you guys had the legislative and executive branches, you passed a nice new benefit that cost a fortune.

You guys only care about opposing whatever Obama does. If ObamaCare were called McCainCare, you guys would be clamoring to support it -- it is, after all, based on many proposals that came from right-wing sources, one of whom is your candidate for president.

The real truth is that if Obama went on TV tomorrow and said he liked apples, the next day you guys would be railing about how evil apples are.

 

[Gunslinger08]

When insurance companies raise their rates too much, you can apply price controls.

How is this not good?

When coverage of certain things is mandated and prices are controlled, the insurance companies only really have the option of cutting out non-mandated coverage, using only the few doctors who will accept lower rates (which will lead to wait times), or going out of business. Margins in insurance aren't exactly huge.

The problem with healthcare doesn't really seem to be insurance - it's the cost of care providers.

 

[feralkid]

The problem with healthcare doesn't really seem to be insurance - it's the cost of care providers.

Not sure if serious.


Providers pretty much charge whatever insurance will cover, not the other way around





.

 

[nehalem256]

They already are. Some companies raised rates by 30% in 2009. And most have been steadily raising them 10% every year since, all while cutting the numbers of enrolled customers.

Insurance companies have had 50-90% increases to profit year over year, for the past several years.

http://research.scottrade.com/qnr/Public/Stocks/Earnings?symbol=WLP

earnings:
Q1-11 $2.35
Q1-12 $2.34

Sure looks like a 50% increase to me

 

[shadow9d9]

There's a free market way to do it and a government way to do it. Don't like act like it's impossible for the free market to sort out the issue of costs. Personally, I think the current system is worst of all possible scenarios. A truly free market or government-run system would both lower costs.

You cannot have a free market when it comes to necessities. You only have collusion and continued increased costs.

 

[nehalem256]

You can't be serious.

He is very serious

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...-the-pricing/2012/02/28/gIQAtbhimR_story.html

The players sitting across the table from them — the health insurers — are not so profitable. In 2009, their profit margins were a mere 2.2 percent. That’s a signal that the sellers have the upper hand over the buyers.

So much for the Health Insurer bogeyman.

 

[shadow9d9]

Really? People can't get enough of paying higher premiums? We'll see how they feel if price controls kick in. What do you think will be the consequences of price controls?

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/romneycare-facts-and-falsehoods/

 

[shadow9d9]

So why not raise it 20% now and have an extra 2 years of massive profits?

They have a monopoly on a necessity. They are rolling in it. If they go TOO far too quick, they will draw extra scrutiny.

 

[Infohawk]

You cannot have a free market when it comes to necessities. You only have collusion and continued increased costs.

Are you sure you don't mean you don't WANT a free market for necessities? That is different from CAN'T HAVE. What is your definition of a necessity? We have a free market for housing and food and it works out. If you're saying the US doesn't qualify as a free market for housing and food then you're not really saying anything of importance.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/romneycare-facts-and-falsehoods/

That is over a year old now and doesn't address all my points. Health care costs are a big issue and that hasn't been addressed by it at all. According to your own link, premiums rose faster in MA than the country overall. It's also now a state budget issue if they're considering price controls.

 

[sactoking]

So what you mean to say is a 35-45% increase total then? You can't ignore the increase that was already going to happen.

Well, the question was pretty well couched in the scenario of "What's going to happen to premiums with the ACA intact?" so your insistence on foisting a 15-20% "natural" increase in premiums upon my direct answer is disingenuous.

Let say Joe Smith is 25, healthy, and single. He is making decent money, about 50K a year. He spends and spends like there is no tomorrow, max out his credit and has bad credit score. He pays a healthcare penalty every year because it is cheaper than health care insurance premium.

One day he has a stroke, goes to emergency room, gets fix up and receives a huge bill. He blows it off and would not pay because he does not have any money left and the credit score would not go any lower. Can't really get anything else from him because he lives hand to mouth due to his excessive spending.

Mutliply Joe by a few millions and I don't see how the ACA would help with the mess and high cost of health care we are right now.

It can happen and it will happen. And those young people who choose to do that will either have the debt noose around their necks for years or they will have the bankruptcy noose around their necks for years.

Just because they choose to raise it that much does NOT mean they have to. Greed controls all, not costs.

Um, yeah, it pretty much does. IIRC there is only one state on a true open competitive rate system where an insurer can just use a rate, the other 49 states and DC all have prior approval, use-and-file, or file-and-use whereby a rate filing or increase has to go through a state actuary and/or an independent actuary to verify the loss cost and underwriting and expense cost factor for it to be upheld. A health insurer can't just raise premiums by 40% for shits and giggles.

 

[NeoV]

nehalem - like just about everything you post in this forum you are completely wrong - again.

Insurance companies do not collect a "straight profit" as say a steel manufacturer would, but they do set a goal to profit from operations outside of investments. There are 2 parts.

Premium collected - (claims paid + operating expenses) = underwriting income. This is divided by the premium collected for what is called the combined ratio. This is the measurement of underwriting operations by an insurance company.

Investment income. This is pretty straight forward, and can be measured in many ways including the return on equity.
Both are important, but the combined ratio is the number to watch.

Keep spewing bad info though..

 

[Incorruptible]

Please tell us where you would go then? I know, why don't you go to the libertarian enclaves of Hong Kong or Singapore. But wait! They also have universal healthcare! Taiwan? They do too. I think you're left with Somalia.

Do you even understand what Libertarianism is, Somolia is not. It has terrorists and extremists with sharia law.

The government has no right to force people to get healthcare and I dont want to pay for others.

 

[Wreckem]

He is very serious

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...-the-pricing/2012/02/28/gIQAtbhimR_story.html



So much for the Health Insurer bogeyman.

Actually the number from 2009 is actually 3.3%. 2010 is around 4%. 2011 is 4.5%. 2012 so far is over 5%.

Doesn't matter though, the 5 biggest insurers, who insure the overwhelming majority have an profit margin of 8.65%.

 

[wirelessenabled]

They ruled (on page 44 of their decision) that the commerce clause and the "whatever other" clause they wanted to use do not apply, but that the tax clause does.

This is both good and bad. Bad in that it means this horrific law stays around. Good in that now Congress can pass a law removing the tax from this law.

Explain to me what is "horrific" about this law.

 

[Svnla]

It can happen and it will happen. And those young people who choose to do that will either have the debt noose around their necks for years or they will have the bankruptcy noose around their necks for years.

I don't belive Joe and ten of million like him care much about debt and bankruptcy problems. If they care, then they would not spend as much and worry only about "minimum monthly payment".

Anyway, I still don't see how the ACA would solve the cost issue of health care. We, as a nation, are getting fatter (1 in 3 are overweight/obsese) and older (ten of millions of baby boomers are about to retire), prime candidate for even more expensive care (stroke, blood pressure, heart diease, join and hip problems, and on and on).

 

[jhu]

Do you even understand what Libertarianism is, Somolia is not. It has terrorists and extremists with sharia law.

I'm not sure you understand what it is either. However, there is no real consensus on what it is. But let's see what the wiki says:

Libertarians generally advocate a society with a government of small scope relative to most present day societies or no government whatsoever.

Sounds like Somalia to me.

The government has no right to force people to get healthcare and I dont want to pay for others.

With regard to the first part of your statement, the supreme court just said otherwise. As for the second part, assuming you're paying for your own health insurance then you're already paying for other people's healthcare. If you have an income, you're already paying for other people's healthcare.

So you don't want to pay for other people's healthcare, then what country are you going to move to where this does not happen? Have fun in Somalia.

 

[michal1980]

It is not about to fail. And if it ever gets close to failing, it can be easily corrected.

Please stop pretending that the right really cares about the budget or the deficit or entitlement programs. Last time you guys had the legislative and executive branches, you passed a nice new benefit that cost a fortune.

You guys only care about opposing whatever Obama does. If ObamaCare were called McCainCare, you guys would be clamoring to support it -- it is, after all, based on many proposals that came from right-wing sources, one of whom is your candidate for president.

The real truth is that if Obama went on TV tomorrow and said he liked apples, the next day you guys would be railing about how evil apples are.

I would care no matter who is in charge.

SS & Medicare are failing. One is far worse then the other. Neither is being corrected. Both were created using the same logic as obama care. That is, there was little logic, and alot of emition. All three were sold to america with claims they would pay for themselves, and not bankrupt us.

Yet we already know that 2 out of the 3 feel good liberal programs are going to be a huge, and ever growing drain on the budget, and one is exploding. So what does your side do? They create a thrid program, hide the inital costs of it, because they know it will be terrible for the country as a whole, and the ram it down our throats.

But heck, who cares about the country, as long as irresponsible people get their wellfare its all ok in the liberal world.

 

[nehalem256]

Actually the number from 2009 is actually 3.3%. 2010 is around 4%. 2011 is 4.5%. 2012 so far is over 5%.

Doesn't matter though, the 5 biggest insurers, who insure the overwhelming majority have an profit margin of 8.65%.

From yahoo finance. Profit margins for 5 biggest health insurers

Unh - 5.00%
Wlp - 4.21%
Aet - 5.57%
Hum - 3.57%
CI - 5.50%

 

[Ausm]

Oh look, Ausm cheering on his "side" without discussing any of the merits or lack thereof of the bill. That was TOTALLY unexpected and I NEVER saw that coming.

When costs continue to skyrocket due to the lack of cost containment, what are you going to say then? "But...but...but..Bush?"

Sore loser? I got beaten like a rented mule in the Walker thread so payback is a bitch.....

 

[Ausm]

Naw like you libs i should scream, yell, and demand a recall.

Only if we can get rid of more Teapublicans....