ACA (a.k.a. Obamacare) Upheld

[feralkid]

Just some of them. Now we will be paying for 100% of the freeloaders.

We've ALWAYS been paying for all of them.

 

[feralkid]

Sharia doesn’t allow Muslims to have insurance. Presumably this means that sharia-compliant Muslims cannot drive a vehicle, own a home, or be involved in social security or Medicare in any way. Or live in the US, unless they pay a penalty/tax under Obamacare as of today, unless exempted.

Obamacare allows people to be exempt from the individual mandate if they are members of a “health sharing ministry”. Presumably a “health sharing ministry” is not considered a health insurance company and is thus not subject to the mandates such as abortion coverage. Sounds like it could just be an agreement of Muslims (for instance) to pool their money for “health expenses” (sort of like a medical reimbursement account) but if it’s not regulated as a health insurance company the group could actually do whatever it wanted with the money that was put in.

In December of 2008 an AIG subsidiary suddenly began offering a shariah-compliant “health sharing ministry” option in every state in the union. It’s combined with shariah-compliant home-owners insurance, and I would imagine that if the company would allow a person to be a member by contributing their tithe (for instance), a Muslim could effectively be exempt from any health insurance requirement simply by doing their mandatory tithing and designating it to go to this particular “company”. If the company is shariah-compliant, that money could conceivably go to any Islamic “charity”. It could provide rewards to jihadis’ families in Afghanistan, for instance.

I remember the week after the Sept 2008 run on the bank, Bernanke and Paulson were both leading all kinds of shariah-compliant seminars. Seems like they had the structure all figured out within 3 months, ready to give any Muslim the ability to opt out of Obamacare once it came down the pike.

I haven’t absorbed all of this yet, but my initial reaction is to look at the timing and realize that the communist-Islamist coup was very carefully planned and methodically carried out right before our very eyes. This was all negotiated ahead of time, before the Islamists agreed to help with the American coup. That’s my initial gut-level response. The bail-out of AIG right after the run on the bank was followed immediately by the steps necessary to make Obamacare eventually work as a dhimmi tax (without directly calling it that). AIG could thrive off of the money of American Muslims who were preparing themselves to be exempt from Obamacare.

 

[Zstream]

your for preformance based care? LOL. What about teachers, you libs are so hypocritical.

That is strangely funny.

 

[SP33Demon]

Aaaaand here come the fucking crazies.

 

[Wreckem]

your for preformance based care? LOL. What about teachers, you libs are so hypocritical.

I am all for performance based hiring and retention of teachers. There however, problems with this because it is hard to judge teaching performance. Teachers cannot do everything. If a student doesn't care, they dont care. There is nothing a teacher can do with some kids. Parental involvement is also an issue. Kids who don't have a strong parental involvement in their education tend not to do well. Also, measuring teacher performance cannot be boiled down to standardized testing either.

So its not quite the same. A Dr and a hospital can control things, a teacher has a lot of stuff out of their control.

Its a kin to Dr's cannot control their patients, and in that instance, if a patient doesn't do what they are supposed to, under the ACA the dr/hospital doesn't take a hit to their quality of care. What the ACA quality of care things mainly factor into are, botched operations that require second(or more) operations to fix or a patient getting an unrelated infection while in recovery. Those are factors a Dr/Hospitals have control over. Teachers do NOT have control like that over a childs education.

If someone could come up with a good way to judge teaching performance I would be all for it. So far no one has because its not that easy to judge someones performance when there are so many factors outside of their control.

 

[Svnla]

Emergency care.

It's a common saying that with no underwriting and no pre-existing conditions exclusion you can "buy insurance on the way to the hospital" but it's not true; it's a euphemism.

It is true that if you are diagnosed with an issue that requires care, even serious care like chemotherapy, you can play adverse selector. However, if you have an emergency, like a stroke, you cannot get a policy with retrospective coverage.

So having no insurance but getting cancer = insurable but having no insurance and having a stroke = not insurable.

Let say Joe Smith is 25, healthy, and single. He is making decent money, about 50K a year. He spends and spends like there is no tomorrow, max out his credit and has bad credit score. He pays a healthcare penalty every year because it is cheaper than health care insurance premium.

One day he has a stroke, goes to emergency room, gets fix up and receives a huge bill. He blows it off and would not pay because he does not have any money left and the credit score would not go any lower. Can't really get anything else from him because he lives hand to mouth due to his excessive spending.

Mutliply Joe by a few millions and I don't see how the ACA would help with the mess and high cost of health care we are right now.

 

[bfdd]

Let say Joe Smith is 25, healthy, and single. He is making decent money, about 50K a year. He spends and spends like there is no tomorrow, max out his credit and has bad credit score. He pays a healthcare penalty every year because it is cheaper than health care insurance premium.

One day he has a stroke, goes to emergency room, gets fix up and receives a huge bill. He blows it off and would not pay because he does not have any money left and the credit score would not go any lower. Can't really get anything else from him because he lives hand to mouth due to his excessive spending.

Mutliply Joe by a few millions and I don't see how the ACA would help with the mess and high cost of health care we are right now.

yeah I know that guy, in fact I know a lot of those guys. I'm kind of one of those guys, except I pay out the ass for the best possible plan offered to me. that and i have some money put away, but not enough for some life changing disease treatment kind. Though I loved my 50% rate hike, can't wait for the next 20-30%.

 

[lopri]

Leavin this here:

You know, this is a completely off-topic but the picture reminds me of an incident where Scalia went to duck-hunting with Dick Cheney while Dick Cheney's case was pending at the SCOTUS.

Now, I don't mind duck-hunting among friends nor do I think such a friendship would cloud Scalia's judgment, and for the most part the liberals were playing a partisan game.

Then it occurred to me. What would have happened had Justice Kagan gone on a vacation to Bahamas with Joe Biden's family while this ACA litigation was ongoing?

 

[feralkid]

Let say Joe Smith is 25, healthy, and single. He is making decent money, about 50K a year. He spends and spends like there is no tomorrow, max out his credit and has bad credit score. He pays a healthcare penalty every year because it is cheaper than health care insurance premium.

One day he has a stroke, goes to emergency room, gets fix up and receives a huge bill. He blows it off and would not pay because he does not have any money left and the credit score would not go any lower. Can't really get anything else from him because he lives hand to mouth due to his excessive spending.

Mutliply Joe by a few millions and I don't see how the ACA would help with the mess and high cost of health care we are right now.

Perhaps you should look at the situation in Massachusetts, where the same plan has had years to play out.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

What the ACA quality of care things mainly factor into are, botched operations that require second(or more) operations to fix or a patient getting an unrelated infection while in recovery. Those are factors a Dr/Hospitals have control over. Teachers do NOT have control like that over a childs education.

You really have no concept of health care at all do you? Tell me, how do docs make fat people thin? Why are they punished for treating the overweight? You have the answers so you can explain, right?

I had no idea we were omnipotent in healthcare.

 

[Infohawk]

Perhaps you should look at the situation in Massachusetts, where the same plan has had years to play out.

It sounds like in MA premiums have increased and the state budget has been affected such that they are considering implementing price controls.

 

[feralkid]

It sounds like in MA premiums have increased and the state budget has been affected such that they are considering implementing price controls.

When insurance companies raise their rates too much, you can apply price controls.

How is this not good?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I haven’t absorbed all of this yet, but my initial reaction is to look at the timing and realize that the communist-Islamist coup was very carefully planned and methodically carried out right before our very eyes. This was all negotiated ahead of time, before the Islamists agreed to help with the American coup. That’s my initial gut-level response. The bail-out of AIG right after the run on the bank was followed immediately by the steps necessary to make Obamacare eventually work as a dhimmi tax (without directly calling it that). AIG could thrive off of the money of American Muslims who were preparing themselves to be exempt from Obamacare.

Okay, is all of this stuff some sort of parody? I really hope so.

 

[Infohawk]

When insurance companies raise their rates too much, you can apply price controls.

How is this not good?

I'm not aware of any situations in which price controls have ever worked out. If implemented on the national level I imagine they'd also cause an uproar.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Okay, is all of this stuff some sort of parody? I really hope so.

Egg Shen: "Time for the medicine!

Jack Burton: "This does what again exactly?"

Egg Shen: "Huge buzz!"

 

[feralkid]

I'm not aware of any situations in which price controls have ever worked out. If implemented on the national level I imagine they'd also cause an uproar.

An uproar is what you'd see in Massachusetts if anyone tried to revoke RomneyCare.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

An uproar is what you'd see in Massachusetts if anyone tried to revoke RomneyCare.

You want to tell us how wonderfully price controls worked for Nixon?

 

[Infohawk]

An uproar is what you'd see in Massachusetts if anyone tried to revoke RomneyCare.

Really? People can't get enough of paying higher premiums? We'll see how they feel if price controls kick in. What do you think will be the consequences of price controls?

 

[Wreckem]

You really have no concept of health care at all do you? Tell me, how do docs make fat people thin? Why are they punished for treating the overweight? You have the answers so you can explain, right?

I had no idea we were omnipotent in healthcare.

Obviously you don't have very much reading comprehension.

The pay for performance in the ACA is ONLY tied to HOSPITAL acquired conditions. You know, the ones is 100% total control of the hospital. Namely getting an infection while in the hospital. Or having a botched surgery, that requires further surgery(ies) to fix.

Other things like a patient not following orders does NOT negatively effect the drs/hospitals performance.

Right now, 1/3 of all admissions acquire some sort of preventable complication during the hospital visit. Which leads to a lot of uncessary costs. The hospital has entire control over these preventable complications. Pay for performance makes sense because they have entire direct control over the situation. The pay for performance in the ACA does not parallel with pay for performance teachers.

Pay for performance for teachers is more a kin to a Dr telling so and so to not do xyz, and patient still does xyz because they don't care. That kind of stuff IS not covered by pay for performance in the ACA.

 

[sportage]

Today America began the transition into the global society of the sane.
In the near future, now we can once again send our kids to college, save for retirement, and pay down our debt, instead of dumping all our income into healthcare cost followed by home foreclosure and finally bankruptcy.
And the healthcare freeloader? You day has ended.
And for the family with a child seriously ill? You child can now look forward to a healthy outcome. Instead of sending mom n dad into bankruptcy court. Dropped from coverage.

The Obama administration must began educating people on the benefits of healthcare reform.
THEY MUST!!!
Because republicans are going to begin telling falsehoods in avalanche proportion to mislead and out right lie to Americans. And they have all the money in the world to do just that.

Healthcare for all Americans, affordable, where everyone pays their way is the American way. Freeloaders beware. Your ride has hit a dead end.

Why republicans lie about this still blatantly exposes their hatred of a black president.
This has become crystal clear. More so now than ever before.
Romney-care is the basis for this reform. Romney cheered on the mandate when governor.
Republicans cheered on nearly every party of healthcare reform, that was until a black president pushed their idea.
But we already knew all that.... Right?

 

[Infohawk]

Today America began the transition into the global society of the sane.

You act like the US is joining other developed countries in having some sort of government system. That is not the case. This is an American Frankenstein situation.

 

[nehalem256]

Healthcare for all Americans, affordable, where everyone pays their way is the American way. Freeloaders beware. Your ride has hit a dead end.

You mean except for those on Medicaid right? Which Obamacare expands.

 

[Wreckem]

Really? People can't get enough of paying higher premiums? We'll see how they feel if price controls kick in. What do you think will be the consequences of price controls?

Costs or not RomneyCare succeeded at what it was doing. The 97.3% of those living in MA have health insurance. When it comes to seniors, that # is 99.8% and when it comes to children it is 99.6.

Lets, compare to Texas.

Only 73.2% of people in Texas have health insurance.
Only 83% of children have insurance.

The reality is, there is no way to lower healthcare costs if you are simply just looking at health insurance. The US needs to radically reform the healthcare industry(not health insurance) in order to lower the cost of healthcare. No one seems to want to do that.

Honestly, the feds should have made medical debt non dis-chargeable in bankruptcy proceedings, if you didn't have insurance. That would have been in addition to the penalty(should have been higher for those with the income to pay for insurance but still don't). That combination likely would have sparked more people into getting insurance that just the paltry penalty.

 

[shadow9d9]

Ok, how about I draw you a map:

The general consensus of everyone I've spoken to in the industry and regulatory groups says 2014 will see average, across-the-board premium increases of "at least 20-25%" directly as a result of ACA market reforms. How much that gets offset by the exchange subsidies in unknown at this point.

Just because they choose to raise it that much does NOT mean they have to. Greed controls all, not costs.

 

[nehalem256]

Just because they choose to raise it that much does NOT mean they have to. Greed controls all, not costs.

So why not raise it 20% now and have an extra 2 years of massive profits?