ACA (a.k.a. Obamacare) Upheld

[michal1980]

lmfao......Sounds like you need some cheese and crackers for your whine?

Naw like you libs i should scream, yell, and demand a recall.

 

[michal1980]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

your for preformance based care? LOL. What about teachers, you libs are so hypocritical.

 

[Fern]

I simply don't see how riding this issue will get more people to vote Romney who weren't already, pandering to that base isn't going to get him any new votes.

Not that I'm supporting that prediction, but I think the line of thought is that the 'outrage' will bring out a higher % of his base.

There are basically two lines of thought in campaign strategy. The Dick Morris strategy of moving to policy positions that bring you independents, and the Karl Rove strategy that you work on increasing your base's turn-out to win. So, I think they are going with the latter.

I'd like to see Mitt explaining to lower income voters how he is going to help them by taking away the ACA with no plan whatsoever to replace it. This position also obliterates all hope at the minority vote. One of the Fox News stories has a picture of Rubio and it looks like someone just shot his dog.

Poor people already get Medicaid.

You have also failed to factor in that Oabamcare strips something like $500 billion from Medicare. I do not believe that is popular with the retired already on Medicare. They have a huge turn-out.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

And while I truly and genuinely am sorry for your plight, as is the case with most social programs, the minority who benefit are always in favor of maintaining them or getting more. It does not, however, make it sustainable, no matter how noble and morally correct then sound, much the same as communism in theory. I fear we're heading into another Social Security disaster, except instead of it taking 100 years for that plan to implode upon itself, I think the addition of ACA is just going to exacerbate the already tenuous situation we're in, and possible within the next 10 years heading to a financial meltdown that is going to make Greece look like a frat party.

That doesn't make sense on a whole number of different levels. Do you believe that group health insurance is unsustainable? Presumably not. The individual mandate simply creates group insurance dynamics for the country at large, which is why the pre-existing condition exclusion can be effectively removed. If there's some unique reason why that would be unsustainable, you're going to need to spell that out. Our health care system as a whole has been moving on an unsustainable trajectory, but that has nothing to do with whether or not people are excluded from coverage for pre-existing conditions.

As for the US turning into Greece, no. The US is vastly more competitive, and productive as well as not being trapped in a currency union that prevents effective use of fiscal and monetary policy. Any time someone compares the US to Greece all that really means is that they don't understand the problems of Greece.

 

[fskimospy]

your for preformance based care? LOL. What about teachers, you libs are so hypocritical.

You realize that lots of liberals are for better performance testing for teachers, right? Just not through bullshit standardized tests that don't actually measure things usefully.

You are really flipping your shit today, maybe you need a hug.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yes, instead of ever trying to fix anything with the only options that have been proven to work across the entire rest of the world, we should continue with the ones we know for certain don't work until we hit some sort of boiling point because of some sort of mythical total ineffectiveness of government. Before certain groups started making it their life's mission to throw wrenches into the system the government actually used to be able to get things done.

Instead of determining what can work in the US you ignore what happens here and use magical thinking to pretend Dems and Reps won't pander and stab at each other while trying to completely take over what neither you nor they understand, but because others with different political and economic systems have something which has evolved over decades, you think the lazy and clueless will make it all better. How, by the power of Greyskull?

 

[fskimospy]

You have also failed to factor in that Oabamcare strips something like $500 billion from Medicare. I do not believe that is popular with the retired already on Medicare. They have a huge turn-out.

Fern

Not actually true, at least not in a way that would matter to voters on Medicare. First, Medicare users actually gain a fairly significant benefit through closing the 'doughnut hole' in Medicare part D expenditures. Secondly, the ACA achieves its Medicare savings through reduced payments to providers, not cuts to benefits.

Now if you want to argue that those savings won't materialize or whatever that's fine, but since the law actually increases overall benefits to Medicare recipients it seems to be a pretty strange line of argument that they wouldn't like it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

your for preformance based care? LOL. W oh hat about teachers, you libs are so hypocritical.

We spend more on public education than many Western nations and have poorer results. Obviously the government needs to take over and set price limits.

 

[Phokus]

Uh oh, looks like Bill O'Reilly needs to pay the piper:

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201203260005

"O'Reilly Says He'll "Apologize For Being An Idiot" If Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Reform Law"

 

[michal1980]

You realize that lots of liberals are for better performance testing for teachers, right? Just not through bullshit standardized tests that don't actually measure things usefully.

You are really flipping your shit today, maybe you need a hug.

Thats just a lie.

 

[Phokus]

We spend more on public education than many Western nations and have poorer results. Obviously the government needs to take over and set price limits.

The Fins have 99% unionized teachers, teachers are held as gods over there, and they have the highest math/science test scores. Obviously we should privatize everything.

 

[michal1980]

We spend more on public education than many Western nations and have poorer results. Obviously the government needs to take over and set price limits.

wait...

goverment already controls the costs of education.

 

[michal1980]

ACA = Higher taxes, greater deficits, more bankrupt country.

more freeloaders, freeloading.

 

[fskimospy]

We spend more on public education than many Western nations and have poorer results. Obviously the government needs to take over and set price limits.

Why would the answer to every problem be the same? I for one am a big fan of charter schools so long as they are implemented correctly.

It's okay to be for free market solutions sometimes and government solutions other times. With education I think a chartered approach could really help. With health care I think otherwise.

 

[K1052]

Not that I'm supporting that prediction, but I think the line of thought is that the 'outrage' will bring out a higher % of his base.

There are basically two lines of thought in campaign strategy. The Dick Morris strategy of moving to policy positions that bring you independents, and the Karl Rove strategy that you work on increasing your base's turn-out to win. So, I think they are going with the latter.



Poor people already get Medicaid.

You have also failed to factor in that Oabamcare strips something like $500 billion from Medicare. I do not believe that is popular with the retired already on Medicare. They have a huge turn-out.

Fern

Given that the Tea Party is already pretty motivated to dump Obama I think the returns on that particular strategy are diminishing rapidly.

IIRC, the statement that ACA was going to strip Medicare of $500B was incorrect. The CBO stated that the ACA would prevent, by savings related to implementation of the ACA, $400-500B in Medicare expenditures over 10 years.

 

[shadow9d9]

You realize that lots of liberals are for better performance testing for teachers, right? Just not through bullshit standardized tests that don't actually measure things usefully.

You are really flipping your shit today, maybe you need a hug.

There is no way to objectively measure performance for teachers. It is just another talking point to attack teachers while the handful of people that destroyed the world economy for billions got away with it.

 

[fskimospy]

Thats just a lie.

Uhmmm, I don't really know what to say other than 'no it isn't.'

I am a liberal and I am for increased teacher accountability. One of my good friends is not only a public school teacher, but also a Ph.D candidate researching exactly this. She's even more liberal than I am and she's for increased teacher accountability.

You learn something new every day, huh? So angry today!!!

 

[shadow9d9]

Which is something even he admits wasn't implemented properly and ended up costing the state (taxpayers) hundreds of millions more than originally intended.

The people of Mass love it though.

 

[michal1980]

Uhmmm, I don't really know what to say other than 'no it isn't.'

I am a liberal and I am for increased teacher accountability. One of my good friends is not only a public school teacher, but also a Ph.D candidate researching exactly this. She's even more liberal than I am and she's for increased teacher accountability.

You learn something new every day, huh? So angry today!!!

Whatever lies you have to tell yourself go for it.

Truth is, as a whole, liberals want union protection for teachers, and support the last in first out policies. Heck wisconsin had you libs go all crazy recall when their ideology got challenged.

PS. I go by liberal actions, not by their words.

Obama said this wasn't a tax, when it was.

 

[fskimospy]

There is no way to objectively measure performance for teachers. It is just another talking point to attack teachers while the handful of people that destroyed the world economy for billions got away with it.

Wall St. doesn't have anything to do with this. There are a number of great ways to evaluate teachers, but tests are generally a poor measure of it. In a better world we would have greater administration evaluation (that is done significantly differently than today and with better training for AP's, but that's a long story). Additionally, research shows that the students themselves are often excellent evaluators of their teachers. Even 'bad' kids know a good teacher when they see one for the most part.

A combination of administrator, student, and mild testing evaluation would work wonders for improving teacher quality in my opinion.

 

[shadow9d9]

The government can't even pull off a basic task like investigating Fast and Furious and you think that all they have to do is cut payments. Hey why don't you siphon gas out of tanks? That will increase mileage. Faith based health care reform. Great.

Top corporations can't even figure out the CEO to median salary ratio and yet, I don't see you going after them. Just the boogie man government. Booga booga!

 

[fskimospy]

Whatever lies you have to tell yourself go for it.

Truth is, as a whole, liberals want union protection for teachers, and support the last in first out policies. Heck wisconsin had you libs go all crazy recall when their ideology got challenged.

Haha, I like how I show you explicit examples and you cling to your 'IT ALL HAS TO BE LIES, BAWWW'. Wanting union protection for teachers is in no way mutually exclusive to improved evaluation measures. As for Wisconsin, that had nothing to do with teacher evaluations. Are you just blindly raging because you're so hurt about this ruling?

 

[shadow9d9]

you libs never get over it. in Wisconsin you had a childish fit for ~2 yrs

Not agreeing with the extreme right wing doesn't make anyone a "lib." Hint: There is only one liberal senator.

Oooh... anyone who disagrees with you MUST be the other side.. Forming an us vs them argument. I gotcha now.

 

[michal1980]

Not agreeing with the extreme right wing doesn't make anyone a "lib." Hint: There is only one liberal senator.

Oooh... anyone who disagrees with you MUST be the other side.. Forming an us vs them argument. I gotcha now.

eskimo is a know lib.

 

[fskimospy]

Not agreeing with the extreme right wing doesn't make anyone a "lib." Hint: There is only one liberal senator.

Oooh... anyone who disagrees with you MUST be the other side.. Forming an us vs them argument. I gotcha now.

I like how he thinks that because in his opinion someone else had a childish fit that it excuses his own behavior. That's pretty... childish.