ACA (a.k.a. Obamacare) Upheld

[Infohawk]

I don't like either. But I voting in 2012 if there is an election which I doubt. I will vote for Obummer as I see him doing the most damage to USA

Why wouldn't there be an election? So you want the US to be damaged?

 

[ViviTheMage]

SC said you can't mandate people buy health insurance, but you can tax people who don't. Therefore the whole bill is constitutional.

Basically it gives precedent to congress unlimited taxing authority. E.g. congress can levy a tax on people that don't eat enough broccoli, or drink too much soda.

shame

 

[PokerGuy]

So says the guy who claimed the ACA would only be upheld if Obama packed the court.

Oops.

Hey, as I said in other threads, I'm not shocked at all that this happened, when your margin of error is so slim, it only takes 1 justice to join the 4 idiots on any ruling for things to get screwed up.

 

[Ausm]

Its not the largest one in history, stop blowing it out of proportion. And just because the SCOTUS use the tax angle to uphold the mandate, does not mean its a tax. Step back a moment as look at the parts of this law.

1. Children until age 26 are covered. I am sure there a few people who do not like this, but most (a majority, and probably a large majority do).

2. Can not be denied coverage for pre existing conditions. If you are against this, your an idiot. Remember it was not to long ago, ache was considered a pre existing condition for denying insurance.

3. Expedited generic forms of drugs, no longer does big Pharm get to milk the exclusivity of important drugs for diseases like cancer and heart disease.

4. No caps on life time medical benefits.

And more.

Just because everyone gets hung up on a mandate, that lacks any enforcement methods, its suddenly a bad law.

Take a deep breath, let the damn thing start to really kick in and in 10 years or so, then start complaining, but don't start scream the sky is falling, because it ain't!

Can't be dropped from coverage because you get a catastrophic illness.

 

[Ausm]

Hey, as I said in other threads, I'm not shocked at all that this happened, when your margin of error is so slim, it only takes 1 justice to join the 4 idiots on any ruling for things to get screwed up.

Yeah I have to agree with you in regard to Citizen's United.

 

[MovingTarget]

Noid is slight off with his argument.

Even if SCotUS didnt rule it a tax and upheld it on the basis of the commerce clause, the ACA could have still been dismantled via reconciliation. Republicans didn't need it to be a ruled a tax. Anything that is more or less ancillary to the budget can be passed via reconciliation.

Provided it survives a presidential veto. Do you really think that any bill with such a provision attached to it via reconciliation would pass Obama's desk? I think not. Romney? Perhaps, but even I don't think he's that dumb.

 

[PokerGuy]

Basically it gives precedent to congress unlimited taxing authority. E.g. congress can levy a tax on people that don't eat enough broccoli, or drink too much soda.

Yup, any limit on what congress can mandate - no matter how small it was - has now officially been removed. Surely that power will never be misused

This is the largest single tax increase in the history of the country, I hope Romney makes good use of it.

 

[lopri]

Nobody heard Romney bragging about (and giving the complete rationale of) Romneycare and its success?

 

[blankslate]

can someone summarize this for the politically lamen?

excerpt from a possible presidential debate.

President Obama: "Well Mitt, I think we can both agree with Chief Justice John Roberts that what you did in Massachusetts, which is what I did nationally, is constitutional. "

Governor Romney: "um uh, hey these podiums are just the right height my friend."


In all seriousness it mean that the bill will stand unless

a) Governor Romney is elected (and the democratic party can't muster enough members to filibuster a move to repeal the law)

b) Enough Republicans are elected to the Senate to pass a veto proof law repealing the ACA

 

[ichy]

Anyone who thinks the ACA is an outrageous invasion of personal liberty and expansion of gov't power but doesn't oppose the War on Drugs is a hypocritical fool.

 

[munkus]

Can't be dropped from coverage because you get a catastrophic illness.

I agree that there are good provisions in the law. I'm not sure they balance out the flaws or justify the "tax" though. Time will tell.

 

[lopri]

SC said you can't mandate people buy health insurance, but you can tax people who don't. Therefore the whole bill is constitutional.

Basically it gives precedent to congress unlimited taxing authority. E.g. congress can levy a tax on people that don't eat enough broccoli, or drink too much soda.

And that is in the Constitution. OMG the government can tax me. If it can take 10% of my income, what stops it from taking 100%?

Very analogous, isn't it? (For the slow ones - Yes, the government can tax 100% in theory but that has never happened and will not. Why do you think that is?)

 

[Ausm]

Nobody heard Romney bragging about (and giving the complete rationale of) Romneycare and its success?

He's been avoiding that issue like the plague. I can't wait to see him in the first Presidential debate.

 

[hondaf17]

...

5. So if we look at overall health care costs as a obligation Americans owes to themselves, maybe we will see health care costs as a part of GDP, will get smaller than larger. As we eliminate the profits of health insurance companies who have always been simple parasites. Benefiting only themselves and no one else...QUOTE]


Wow. Just wow. This part of your post is extremely, extremely scary. What makes health insurance companies "parasites." Why eliminate the profits of the health insurance companies? Weren't health insurance companies founded by entrepreneuers, who took on a risk in the American dream of earning a living and making a profit? Should they not be rewarded for that risk? How many Americans do health insurance companies employ? How many jobs are created, taxes and benefits paid, out of the profits from the health insurance companies? And yet you say they only benefit themselves? Ask the employees making a living at the company if they're not benefiting from the profits of the employer.

Rhetoric like yours, villifying companies and profits, is extremely scary. What's even more scary is there a lots of people that agree with you.

Oh well, Who is John Galt? I am ready.

 

[fskimospy]

Hey, as I said in other threads, I'm not shocked at all that this happened, when your margin of error is so slim, it only takes 1 justice to join the 4 idiots on any ruling for things to get screwed up.

Keep dreaming. The only way it will be upheld is if obummer has the chance to put another idiot on the court before a ruling.

Obama appoints no new people to the court before the ruling.

PokerGuy: I'm not shocked at all that this happened.

lol.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

SC said you can't mandate people buy health insurance, but you can tax people who don't. Therefore the whole bill is constitutional.

Basically it gives precedent to congress unlimited taxing authority. E.g. congress can levy a tax on people that don't eat enough broccoli, or drink too much soda.

Read the (relatively few) cases in which the supreme court considered the power of the government to tax and spend. All of them say that the governments power to tax is unlimited.

My main problem with the ruling is that the SC has now started us on a slippery slope wherein the government can characterize portions of a law as a tax, when in fact the very words of the law specify a penalty.

 

[Ldir]

Surely a sad day for the country. The government has now been officially handed a tool to make any citizen do anything it wishes, no matter if the constitutional authority exists or not. It's not a penalty, it's just a tax and that means anything go.

The only silver lining to this debacle is that perhaps it might wake up the masses to the disaster in the white house and maybe we'll get a better president out of it. Not likely though, the media is not going to let the dear leader go without a fight.

It is a great day for America! We are one step closer to joining the rest of the civilized world in providing health coverage for everyone.

 

[fskimospy]

Read the (relatively few) cases in which the supreme court considered the power of the government to tax and spend. All of them say that the governments power to tax is unlimited.

My main problem with the ruling is that the SC has now started us on a slippery slope wherein the government can characterize portions of a law as a tax, when in fact the very words of the law specify a penalty.

This is what's so sad about this debate. People keep trying to think of it as some sort of massive new power for the government when the government has had the power to do this and more for a very very long time.

 

[Incorruptible]

This will be disastrous for the US, the government has no right to get involved with this and is violating freedom.

Americans might have to move to other countries in order to get away from this mess

 

[DrewSG3]

He's been avoiding that issue like the plague. I can't wait to see him in the first Presidential debate.

He's already flip flopped by supporting protecting those with pre existing conditions.. that didn't take too long

 

[fskimospy]

This will be disastrous for the US, the government has no right to get involved with this and is violating freedom.

Americans might have to move to other countries in order to get away from this mess

Ooh, are you going to start up the conservative version of "I'M MOVING TO CANADA"?

The big problem with this of course is that basically every developed nation on earth is far more liberal than the United States. You already live in one of the most conservative places on the planet and it's not good enough. Where will you go? Is Galt's Gulch accepting applications?

 

[Ldir]

This will be disastrous for the US, the government has no right to get involved with this and is violating freedom.

Americans might have to move to other countries in order to get away from this mess

I will help you pack.

 

[shadow9d9]

...

5. So if we look at overall health care costs as a obligation Americans owes to themselves, maybe we will see health care costs as a part of GDP, will get smaller than larger. As we eliminate the profits of health insurance companies who have always been simple parasites. Benefiting only themselves and no one else...QUOTE]


Wow. Just wow. This part of your post is extremely, extremely scary. What makes health insurance companies "parasites." Why eliminate the profits of the health insurance companies? Weren't health insurance companies founded by entrepreneuers, who took on a risk in the American dream of earning a living and making a profit? Should they not be rewarded for that risk? How many Americans do health insurance companies employ? How many jobs are created, taxes and benefits paid, out of the profits from the health insurance companies? And yet you say they only benefit themselves? Ask the employees making a living at the company if they're not benefiting from the profits of the employer.

Rhetoric like yours, villifying companies and profits, is extremely scary. What's even more scary is there a lots of people that agree with you.

Oh well, Who is John Galt? I am ready.

People's access to healthcare shouldn't be based on profit. Pure and simple. Same reason electricity, food, gas, etc is regulated. Necessities, if given by profit, can charge whatever they want because you need it.

Notice how we pay over double what other countries pay, plus we get knocked off insurance, get denied claims, have copays, need pre-approvals, and still have 10s of millions without any access?

 

[HendrixFan]

So when exactly was there a question of whether or not Congress had the power of taxation? I don't see a slippery slope at all.

 

[jackstar7]

This will be disastrous for the US, the government has no right to get involved with this and is violating freedom.

Americans might have to move to other countries in order to get away from this mess

Can we help you get started?