ACA (a.k.a. Obamacare) Upheld

[Nemesis 1]

Not sure how you can say it's unconstitutional, when the Supreme Court just said it was constitutional.

Who makes up the supreme court . In todays world how does one rise to the top of his profession. These men are at the Top of their professions . If you think these are FAIR Honest men . You be living in a dream world. But it is your reality. I don't think your going to like how your reality turns out . Is GOD a sociaslist yes he is . BUt he is the only being capable of running a socialist form of government. NO man can be its head . We don't need another King and his mighty nobles . Its in the pass and thats were it should remain buried . No man can head a socialist 1 world government . NO man is capable or worthy of such a post. You want to do the world a favor kill a Rothschild(Bankers) in time you will be seen as a world hero.

Remember Ronny's Speach about an alien attack and how that could bring the whole of the world together. I lol! If we are the travelers than we are the aggressors and likely more developed. If they are the vistors only a complete retard would fire on a superior life form. But than we are talking about fearful mankind . Who destroy everthing they don't understand including mankinds mother earth. The Movie the Day the Earth stood still . I am human I would not let mankind survive/If you don't believe in God you believe you are animals . Therefore you are at same level as the other creatures in this World and have = claim to mother earth as does mankind . Unless you believe in God that is / I actually believe if there is No god the lowest form of life on mother earth would be in reality the lowest life form this planet produced (MAN). Better man die off than the creatures of the world as evolution may fix its mistake known as man . or destroyer of worlds

 

[Wreckem]

I believe the penalty is $2500.. is this going to be adjusted for inflation? In 20 years it will make much more sense to not pay and get insurance only when you're sick. And votes will never be there to raise it.

Y'all are all wrong. I have read the entire thread, so this might have already been corrected.

In 2014 its $95 per adult & $47.50 per child with a family cap of $285 or 1% of your income, which ever is greater
2015 is $325 per adult & $162.50 per child with a family cap of $975 or 2% of your income, which ever is greater
2016 on is $695 per adult or $347.50 per child with a family cap of 2085 or 2.5% of your income, which ever is greater


Have to be making $100,000k to pay a $2,500 fine, and that is only in 2016 and onward.

 

[jhu]

Sadly there is no real alternative. The court has ruled that the government can tax you on nothing. The excuse for using the commerce clause is unimportant. It is now legal to force people to do what the government has no right to order and it's neither coercion nor punishment. The power to tax is the power to destroy, unless you are a citizen. I don't want Obama to have a chance to stack the court and subjugate us further. Maybe this will bring other independents to vote and that won't be good for Obama. It's on.

Hyperbole much? Let's assume Souter and Stevens didn't retire. They would have also voted in favor for this bill. So that leaves the conservative John Roberts. Wait a minute, what's he doing on this side of the court!!!

 

[sactoking]

Just a reminder: If you work for a large, typically national or multinational, employer the ACA may not apply to you. The ACA does not apply to self-insured employers, and many large employers are (esp. PPO and high-deductible plans). Be sure to check; even if your insurance card says "Blue Shield" or some other large name, they may just be a third-party administrator.

 

[Farang]

Again, if it is a tax it can be eliminated via budget reconciliation.

51 votes and it dies. Having it be a tax assures destruction of the law. This is the reason the democrats wanted it to not be a tax...

I don't know why there aren't more comments on this.

I think you're right in terms of if Romney wins and Republicans get both houses this election.

Longer term I'm not so sure. You would have a lot of powerful interests (insurance companies, for one) in an established system, that would be opposed to removing the mandate that is already in place. By then everyone will realize the mandate isn't really that big a deal to them personally, except to 6% of people, and I don't think the political capital will be there.

Even then what you're saying is the mandate doesn't survive, not ACA. Worst case it'll just come and go as both parties take control of government.

 

[Infohawk]

In the prediction thread, I described this as a tax on healthy working and middle-class people.

A lot will come down to the details of implementation, but it seems like the funding is going to be problematic if it's truly affordable for healthier / middle-class / poorer people. If it's not affordable, than it's an unfair tax.

 

[hal2kilo]

Who makes up the supreme court . In todays world how does one rise to the top of his profession. These men are at the Top of their professions . If you think these are FAIR Honest men . You be living in a dream world. But it is your reality. I don't think your going to like how your reality turns out . Is GOD a sociaslist yes he is . BUt he is the only being capable of running a socialist form of government. NO man can be its head . We don't need another King and his mighty nobles . Its in the pass and thats were it should remain buried . No man can head a socialist 1 world government . NO man is capable or worthy of such a post. You want to do the world a favor kill a Rothschild(Bankers) in time you will be seen as a world hero.

Mm'kay.

 

[fskimospy]

Sadly there is no real alternative. The court has ruled that the government can tax you on nothing. The excuse for using the commerce clause is unimportant. It is now legal to force people to do what the government has no right to order and it's neither coercion nor punishment. The power to tax is the power to destroy, unless you are a citizen. I don't want Obama to have a chance to stack the court and subjugate us further. Maybe this will bring other independents to vote and that won't be good for Obama. It's on.

Once again, I find the hyperbole silly. Congress taxing you $1,000 and buying you health care with it? NO PROBLEM. Congress saying you have to buy health care or face a $1,000 tax? TYRANNY AND SUBJUGATION.

 

[munkus]

If Romney is smart (survey says?) then he'll use the fact that Obama said this wasn't a tax but then the SCOTUS says it is...and the largest one in US history at that (or so I keep hearing). Yet another lie from Obama? Romney could score big with blue dogs and Independents. I'm no fan of Mittens, but I want Oblamer out of office ASAFP.

 

[SP33Demon]

As I come late to this thread, let me sum it up.

1. Some posters think its a horrible decision on the part of SOTUS, other think its the correct decision. Regardless which side of the fence you are, it is what it is, learn it and live it.

2. Even if Obama had to nurse and water down the so called Obama care bill to get it through the friendlier 2008 to 2010 congress, Obama did get the bill through.

3. Up until now in the 2012 POTUS race, the OBAMA care issue has been on somewhat of a back burner. Simply since the GOP was hoping that SCOTUS would do their heavy lifting for them, and kill Obama Care. Now that SCOTUS didn't exactly read and follow the GOP script, now the question becomes, how many GOP candidates will make it part of their 2012 election platform to legislatively repeal Obama care? Not only is that repeal a higher 2/3 majority bar, its also politically dangerous. On one hand GOP candidate X may gain voters opposed to Obama care, but it may lose them voters in favor of Obama care.

4. Obama care is not going to particularly adversely impact the the diminishing minority of folks who can obtain subsidized heath insurance from their employers, but because the set of employers able to offer that heath care option to their employees has been dropping like a rock since 1980, it may drop even faster now.

5. So if we look at overall health care costs as a obligation Americans owes to themselves, maybe we will see health care costs as a part of GDP, will get smaller than larger. As we eliminate the profits of health insurance companies who have always been simple parasites. Benefiting only themselves and no one else.As the USA is the only industrialized nation in the world that does not have semi-socialized medicine.

And no Virgina, there is no Santa Claus and no the USA does not have the overall best medical care in the world for anyone but a very few of its citizens.

3. This SCOTUS ruling actually isn't politically dangerous, since Romneycare was modeled after Obamacare.

4. Not for small businesses (50 or less) who will now be fined if they don't offer health insurance.

 

[fskimospy]

Actually good sir, your WRONG. The tax is only deemed legitimate until its enacted, then it must be ruled as being legal or illegal as a final decision.


its literally "in limbo" until its enactment of 2014. there is no final say.


Not sure of your understanding of the situation... but the fact remains, the tax must be ruled legal before its ever enacted., and thats a couple years off. Far from the end of story. Loophole after loophole.

This is explicitly incorrect and directly refuted by the SCOTUS decision itself. They addressed your argument and dismissed it.

It's the end.

 

[PokerGuy]

Surely a sad day for the country. The government has now been officially handed a tool to make any citizen do anything it wishes, no matter if the constitutional authority exists or not. It's not a penalty, it's just a tax and that means anything go.

The only silver lining to this debacle is that perhaps it might wake up the masses to the disaster in the white house and maybe we'll get a better president out of it. Not likely though, the media is not going to let the dear leader go without a fight.

 

[ViviTheMage]

can someone summarize this for the politically lamen?

 

[MovingTarget]

3. This SCOTUS ruling actually isn't politically dangerous, since Romneycare was modeled after Obamacare.

4. Not for small businesses (50 or less) who will now be fined if they don't offer health insurance.

lolwut? Didn't "Romneycare" in MA precede "Obamacare"?

 

[fskimospy]

Budget reconciliation. 51 votes kills this if it is a tax.

Sure, but that's largely irrelevant. The point of defeating the ACA through the courts was to either have the entire law thrown out (best case for conservatives), or have the courts do the dirty work for them in eliminating the mandate. If the courts had eliminated the mandate then it was the Democrats' fault for passing such a crazy law. If Republicans decide simply to amend the mandate out of existence they will be completely fucking up the country's health care system and doing it on purpose.

Considering how radicalized the Republican Party currently is I'm not going to go so far as to say they will absolutely refuse to do it, but if they do so they will be under tremendous pressure to supply an alternative or face enormous consequences from both voters and the health care industry that are affected by this. That will be a tough road to go down.

 

[Ausm]

lolwut? Didn't "Romneycare" in MA precede "Obamacare"?

Yes the ACA was modeled from "Romneycare".

 

[fskimospy]

Surely a sad day for the country. The government has now been officially handed a tool to make any citizen do anything it wishes, no matter if the constitutional authority exists or not. It's not a penalty, it's just a tax and that means anything go.

The only silver lining to this debacle is that perhaps it might wake up the masses to the disaster in the white house and maybe we'll get a better president out of it. Not likely though, the media is not going to let the dear leader go without a fight.

So says the guy who claimed the ACA would only be upheld if Obama packed the court.

Oops.

 

[jstern01]

If Romney is smart (survey says?) then he'll use the fact that Obama said this wasn't a tax but then the SCOTUS says it is...and the largest one in US history at that. Yet another lie from Obama. Romney could score big with blue dogs and Independents. I'm no fan of Mittens, but I want Oblamer out of office ASAFP.

Its not the largest one in history, stop blowing it out of proportion. And just because the SCOTUS use the tax angle to uphold the mandate, does not mean its a tax. Step back a moment as look at the parts of this law.

1. Children until age 26 are covered. I am sure there a few people who do not like this, but most (a majority, and probably a large majority do).

2. Can not be denied coverage for pre existing conditions. If you are against this, your an idiot. Remember it was not to long ago, ache was considered a pre existing condition for denying insurance.

3. Expedited generic forms of drugs, no longer does big Pharm get to milk the exclusivity of important drugs for diseases like cancer and heart disease.

4. No caps on life time medical benefits.

And more.

Just because everyone gets hung up on a mandate, that lacks any enforcement methods, its suddenly a bad law.

Take a deep breath, let the damn thing start to really kick in and in 10 years or so, then start complaining, but don't start scream the sky is falling, because it ain't!

 

[Wreckem]

I think you're right in terms of if Romney wins and Republicans get both houses this election.

Longer term I'm not so sure. You would have a lot of powerful interests (insurance companies, for one) in an established system, that would be opposed to removing the mandate that is already in place. By then everyone will realize the mandate isn't really that big a deal to them personally, except to 6% of people, and I don't think the political capital will be there.

Even then what you're saying is the mandate doesn't survive, not ACA. Worst case it'll just come and go as both parties take control of government.

Noid is slightly off with his argument.

Even if SCotUS didnt rule it a tax and upheld it on the basis of the commerce clause, the ACA could have still been dismantled via reconciliation. Republicans didn't need it to be a ruled a tax. Anything that is more or less ancillary to the budget can be passed via reconciliation. This was the republicans plan all along, they were just hoping SCotUS would axe it so they wouldnt have to waste a ton of political capital when repealing it.

 

[QuantumPion]

can someone summarize this for the politically lamen?

SC said you can't mandate people buy health insurance, but you can tax people who don't. Therefore the whole bill is constitutional.

Basically it gives precedent to congress unlimited taxing authority. E.g. congress can levy a tax on people that don't eat enough broccoli, or drink too much soda.

 

[umbrella39]

Romney was for it before he was against it. Going to be hilarious debates...

 

[Nemesis 1]

I don't like either. But I voting in 2012 if there is an election which I doubt. I will vote for Obummer as I see him doing the most damage to USA

 

[umbrella39]

Surely a sad day for the country. The government has now been officially handed a tool to make any citizen do anything it wishes, no matter if the constitutional authority exists or not. It's not a penalty, it's just a tax and that means anything go.

The only silver lining to this debacle is that perhaps it might wake up the masses to the disaster in the white house and maybe we'll get a better president out of it. Not likely though, the media is not going to let the dear leader go without a fight.

LOLFUDLOL

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Once again, I find the hyperbole silly. Congress taxing you $1,000 and buying you health care with it? NO PROBLEM. Congress saying you have to buy health care or face a $1,000 tax? TYRANNY AND SUBJUGATION.

Methodology is important when considering whether or not a government act is or is not constitutional. The fact that "a" right answer was achieved does not mean that it was done in the correct way.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't like either. But I voting in 2012 if there is an election which I doubt. I will vote for Obummer as I see him doing the most damage to USA

Hey, are you getting a little wishy washy on the whole 2012 apocalypse thing? You seemed so sure a few months ago. What's the deal?