ACA (a.k.a. Obamacare) Upheld

[nehalem256]

This is not true, as determined by the military itself.

Why does everything come back to how much you hate women?

So you think a 7 month pregnant woman is going to be running around in body armor?

And I do not think it was so much determined as forced upon the military by women's rights groups.

 

[dank69]

So for those of us who haven't been following this very closely, how will this affect a typical DINK married couple? I'm assuming that premiums will go up to cover the new mandatory coverage/services and that employers will pass these increases on to employees. I see that there are going to be federal limits on premium increases as well. So if we put together mandatory (increased) coverage and limits on premium increases, how are insurance companies going to handle that? That seems like the only options they have are to:
1. Drastically cut coverage in non-mandatory areas.
2. Limit the available providers considerably to only those doctors who are willing to accept lower payments.
3. Cut overhead at the insurance company as much as possible (good) or eventually go out of business.

Individual mandate. Forces millions more people to buy health insurance, many of them in the 21-40 age range which is like free money for insurers.

 

[yllus]

Plenty of other developed countries do NOT use single payer.

While true, most First World nations do have compulsory insurance, whether it be specifically denominated in your annual taxes or coming from the general fund.

I'm curious - what does this mean for students and the poor who simply can't afford to pay for health care? Are they going to see jail time/fines for not carrying insurance? Is the added cost from other taxpayers going to be used to offset them?

Edit: To answer my own question...

Penalty in 2014 for not getting insurance is $285 or 1% of income.

Jumps up to just under $1000 or 2% of income in 2015, and then I think about $2000 or 2.5% of income in 2016.

 

[mshan]

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000098889&play=1

Bending the cost curve comments start around 3:45 mark and how ACA squeezes costs out of the system as a whole start around 7:40 mark (he says 50% of waste in system is excess pricing, and 50% is overutilization, and ACA incentives to reduce those over time)

Adding currently uninsured who got to emergency room costs all of us insured $1000, adding them under ACA will reduce that to $500 for the system as a whole.

I believe he says premium for insured right now might go up slightly in short-term, but inflation adjusted premiums in future should be lower because inflation in health care costs will be lower.

Plus penalty really sounds like it is making those who go to emergency room to actually pay some of the costs they get for "free" (i. e. we pay indirectly) and hopefully incentivize them to actually get into health care system.

 

[nehalem256]

And this made election material for Mittens. Democrats will be forced to support a tax hike on middle americans or run from it.

I think you mean Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on American's making less than $250,000.

Obama pulled a Bush.

 

[jstern01]

My understanding is that it is a tax increase of 1%, as well as a deduction for that tax increase (gained through buying insurance).

So if you don't buy insurance, you must pay the tax or face the penalties of not paying your taxes. That's where the teeth are.

It is not my understanding that you can not buy insurance, and not pay the tax, without recourse from the government.

The court also ruled that you are not a lawbreaker for not buying insurance. You are just not entitled to the deduction and must pay the 1% tax hike. Its like if you don't have a mortgage and don't get that deduction

Not exactly here is what the law actually reads.

(A) Waiver of criminal penalties

In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section. Such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosection or penalty with respect to such failure.

(B) Limitations of liens and levies

The Secretary shall not -
(i) file notice of line with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section or
(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.

Basically the IRS can not go after your wages, home.

 

[sportage]

Watching citizen reactions, they are all worried they will not be able to afford to buy healthcare vs paying a tax.

People need to calm down...

Now that all US citizens will be required to have healthcare, a man like Obama WILL bring in expanded medicare that everyone CAN afford. Or some form of government public option the poor can buy into.

And in the end, EVERYONE will have and can then afford healthcare. EVERYONE!!!!

This doesn't kill private employer healthcare.
Employers will have MORE of an incentive to work with insurance companies to offer employer based healthcare at an attractive cost to employers and employees.

Think it through...

We as a nation will finally have and offer healthcare for all Americans.
And with everyone chipping in, as they should, costs will come down for everyone.
Both those on expanded medicare-public option, and those preferring to stick with employer based healthcare.

Do not sell your self short, or believe we can not be better as a nation.
The republicans will try hard to convince YOU that this is not the case.
Try to convince you that the sky is falling.

Re electing Obama AND placing democrats in congress will make dreams come true.
And personally, I only trust Obama to be smart enough to get this done, and done correctly.

Besides.... republicans have NO plan to offer healthcare to the masses, other than some will get it, most will not. And for those that do the costs will go through the ceiling.

Think it through. I know some of you still can think. I hope that is the case....

God... this reminds me of the civil rights act. People were told the sky will fall if it passed. And a black man could even one day be president.

If we truly want to get our economic house in order, expand healthcare for everyone to take part in.
NO FREE RIDES that costs everyone A LOT in $$$ and job loss.

RE ELECT PRESIDENT OBAMA.
Let him finish this and finish this the correct way.
Don't sell yourself short by listening to the republican nay sayers.
That is not the American way I remember from my history books.
.
.
.

 

[fskimospy]

So you think a 7 month pregnant woman is going to be running around in body armor?

And I do not think it was so much determined as forced upon the military by women's rights groups.

Way off topic, and you have provided no evidence for this.

Please stop trying to make every topic about how much you hate women.

 

[cybrsage]

They are giving you great healthcare for HUGE costs... the costs are just hidden by having it separate and hidden from your salary.

No pre-existing conditions, no lifetime limits, staying on parents' insurance until 26. All tons more important.

Not sure if you are serious.

 

[Gamingphreek]

One thing that it means is as follows - personal story:

I had elbow surgery about 15 years ago and take a statin drug for high cholesterol (my diet and lifestyle are exemplary, but my cholesterol won't go below about 250 without statins). Under pre-ACA rules, those two facts make it impossible for me to obtain private insurance at any price (I know; I've tried). Financially, I could easily retire now (I'm a 1-percenter) EXCEPT that I would not be able to get health insurance. So I am forced to work until I'm 65 (when I'll be eligible for Medicare) for a company that offers a group health insurance policy. Even being "wealthy" I cannot afford the possibility of a catastrophic illness. But under ACA, starting in 2014 I'll be able to retire.

There are many stories out there like mine. For example, people who would like to go into business for themselves, but they can't get private health insurance, so they're forced to work for someone else.

The current health care system in the U.S. is a scandal. Anyone who thinks ACA is worse simply doesn't know what they're talking about. The more people find out what ACA really accomplishes, the more people will appreciate its benefits.

When conservatives can describe practicable, substantive changes to the American health care system that do a better job than ACA, I'll start listening to them. But all the right does right now is say "Repeal ACA! Repeal ACA!"

It's time for the right to start offering solutions. Unfortunately for them, they don't have any.

I don't disagree that:
A. Your situation was unfair (Those should pre-existing conditions should not prevent you from getting insurance.
B. Something needed/needs to be done

However...
Forcing everyone to buy insurance or pay a penalty (Sorry it is not a tax Supreme Court) is not the solution. Unfortunately, we have experienced one of the many failures on both sides:
A. Republicans won't offer a solution, only criticism.
B. Democrats offer a solution but one that is undeniably unconstitutional.

Out of curiosity, did you ever look at anything like this (Speaking about the concept not about the religion in this instance) http://mychristiancare.org/Medi-Share/

-GP

 

[The-Noid]

One thing that it means is as follows - personal story:

I had elbow surgery about 15 years ago and take a statin drug for high cholesterol (my diet and lifestyle are exemplary, but my cholesterol won't go below about 250 without statins). Under pre-ACA rules, those two facts make it impossible for me to obtain private insurance at any price (I know; I've tried). Financially, I could easily retire now (I'm a 1-percenter) EXCEPT that I would not be able to get health insurance. So I am forced to work until I'm 65 (when I'll be eligible for Medicare) for a company that offers a group health insurance policy. Even being "wealthy" I cannot afford the possibility of a catastrophic illness. But under ACA, starting in 2014 I'll be able to retire.

There are many stories out there like mine. For example, people who would like to go into business for themselves, but they can't get private health insurance, so they're forced to work for someone else.

The current health care system in the U.S. is a scandal. Anyone who thinks ACA is worse simply doesn't know what they're talking about. The more people find out what ACA really accomplishes, the more people will appreciate its benefits.

When conservatives can describe practicable, substantive changes to the American health care system that do a better job than ACA, I'll start listening to them. But all the right does right now is say "Repeal ACA! Repeal ACA!"

It's time for the right to start offering solutions. Unfortunately for them, they don't have any.

In many states if you have a preexisting condition and are denied by two insurance companies you are eligible for subsidized healthcare. See: MNCare, IACare, WICare, etc.

There are no income limits.

http://mchamn.com/

https://www.hipiowa.com/Default.asp

etc. it is available in most every state and in most cases is cheaper than private insurance for a healthy individual.

http://www.naschip.org/states_pools.htm

 

[michal1980]

another debt that will lead this country to go bankrupt. All thanks to the left.

 

[Genx87]

One thing that it means is as follows - personal story:

I had elbow surgery about 15 years ago and take a statin drug for high cholesterol (my diet and lifestyle are exemplary, but my cholesterol won't go below about 250 without statins). Under pre-ACA rules, those two facts make it impossible for me to obtain private insurance at any price (I know; I've tried). Financially, I could easily retire now (I'm a 1-percenter) EXCEPT that I would not be able to get health insurance. So I am forced to work until I'm 65 (when I'll be eligible for Medicare) for a company that offers a group health insurance policy. Even being "wealthy" I cannot afford the possibility of a catastrophic illness. But under ACA, starting in 2014 I'll be able to retire.

There are many stories out there like mine. For example, people who would like to go into business for themselves, but they can't get private health insurance, so they're forced to work for someone else.

The current health care system in the U.S. is a scandal. Anyone who thinks ACA is worse simply doesn't know what they're talking about. The more people find out what ACA really accomplishes, the more people will appreciate its benefits.

When conservatives can describe practicable, substantive changes to the American health care system that do a better job than ACA, I'll start listening to them. But all the right does right now is say "Repeal ACA! Repeal ACA!"

It's time for the right to start offering solutions. Unfortunately for them, they don't have any.

Obama should use your story that his plan allowed a 1%er to retire early in life on the backs of the middle class. That should sit well with everybody.

That said you ever look at state run\subsidized insurance? My mom had health issues and was able to get on MinnCare. Costly of course but was an option.

 

[Farang]

Not exactly here is what the law actually reads.

(A) Waiver of criminal penalties

In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section. Such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosection or penalty with respect to such failure.

(B) Limitations of liens and levies

The Secretary shall not -
(i) file notice of line with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section or
(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.

Basically the IRS can not go after your wages, home.

Interesting.. do we have any other taxes where the government restricts its ability to collect?

Can't you go to jail for not paying taxes?

Isn't it the IRS doing the collecting, and not "The Secretary" (who I am assuming is of HHS), so the IRS would proceed with their policies for collecting?

But you're right it seems to have no teeth

 

[cybrsage]

When conservatives can describe practicable, substantive changes to the American health care system that do a better job than ACA, I'll start listening to them. But all the right does right now is say "Repeal ACA! Repeal ACA!"

It's time for the right to start offering solutions. Unfortunately for them, they don't have any.

Already did. Each individual state can create its own system, such as what Mass and Hawaii have already done.

You do realize you could move to Mass and get healthcare, right? As a 1%er, you will be able to easily find a place to live where others in the same bracket already live.

Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan: Massachusetts



Eligible residents of Massachusetts can apply for coverage through the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan program run by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
To qualify for coverage:

• You must be a United States citizen or reside here legally.
• You must be without health coverage for at least the last six months before you apply.
• You must have a pre-existing condition or have been denied coverage because of your health condition.

PCIP covers a broad range of health benefits, including primary and specialty care, hospital care, and prescription drugs. All covered benefits are available for you, even if it’s to treat a preexisting condition.
The monthly premiums for your state are:
AgeStandard OptionExtended OptionHSA Option0 to 18$181$243$18819 to 34$271$365$28235 to 44$325$438$33845 to 54$416$559$43255+$578$778$600

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/features/choices/pre-existing-condition-insurance-plan/ma.html

Your retirement awaits, no one is forcing you to stay working.

 

[zsdersw]

You just don't get it; they will be better, if you define that as taking this precedent and even further magnifying it. You can't expect that the GOP will just let you have your way this once and then go back to playing by the old rules. This tool can and will be used to impose republican policy preferences, probably to a breathtaking extent. We have seen this time and time again - refuse to confirm an otherwise qualified judge (Bork), then the GOP will turn the confirmation process into a death cage match for every appointment. Try to fillibuster Miguel Estrada, republicans will block all of Obama's nominations. Et cetera, in every instance democrats try a new tactic, the republicans take the same tactic up 10 notches and fire it right back the next time.

They won't be better.. they'll be as bad.

 

[The-Noid]

Already did. Each individual state can create its own system, such as what Mass and Hawaii have already done.

You do realize you could move to Mass and get healthcare, right? As a 1%er, you will be able to easily find a place to live where others in the same bracket already live.


http://www.healthcare.gov/law/features/choices/pre-existing-condition-insurance-plan/ma.html

Your retirement awaits, no one is forcing you to stay working.

Funny I posted the same thing, he doesn't have to move to Mass. The MN plan is among the best. It even covers your whole family if you retire early and are eligible.

 

[cybrsage]

Almost all other developed countries use, at a minimum, a government sponsored catastrophic insurance plan. While this does not preclude other insurance, most of them have at least what people here would generally consider 'single payer' of a sort.

I would have no problem with something like this. It would fulfill the general welfare purpose of the government.

 

[The-Noid]

Obama should use your story that his plan allowed a 1%er to retire early in life on the backs of the middle class. That should sit well with everybody.

That said you ever look at state run\subsidized insurance? My mom had health issues and was able to get on MinnCare. Costly of course but was an option.

MinnCare is cheaper than an individual plan for a healthy individual. Most don't realize how much individual plans actually cost as they have always been on a group plan.

 

[cybrsage]

Individual mandate. Forces millions more people to buy health insurance, many of them in the 21-40 age range which is like free money for insurers.

What if they are poor and cannot afford health insurance? It appears the solution to that problem is to raise their taxes.

 

[Genx87]

Funny I posted the same thing, he doesn't have to move to Mass. The MN plan is among the best. It even covers your whole family if you retire early and are eligible.

Why should a 1%er be burdened with moving? Easier to get the feds to tax the 99% so he can retire early.

 

[Genx87]

MinnCare is cheaper than an individual plan for a healthy individual. Most don't realize how much individual plans actually cost as they have always been on a group plan.

It might, I havent looked into it. My mom had issues that made it rather spendy.

 

[The-Noid]

It might, I havent looked into it. My mom had issues that made it rather spendy.

I mean MNCare for a pre-existing condition individual or denied indivdual is cheaper than an individual plan for a health individual of the same age.

A 60 year old through BCBS is around $900 a month, single. On MNCare it is around $340 with the same level of service.

 

[yllus]

<sigh>

A pet peeve of mine is when people try to equate car insurance to this law. There are many important differences:

1. The government DOES NOT force you to buy car insurance. Ask a guy in New York who doesn't own a car and takes the subway everywhere if he is required by law to have car insurance.

2. At one time, many states accepted proof of financial liability in the form of bonds of a set amount. I assume (but am not sure) that's the case today as well.

3. Car insurance is governed by state law, not federal.

#1 is still equitable, isn't it? The government doesn't force a resident of the U.S. to go to the hospital when they feel chest pains - they can choose to stay home or seek alternative treatment. It's by taking to government-built roads or hospitals that you are forced to have insurance of either kind.

 

[cybrsage]

Watching citizen reactions, they are all worried they will not be able to afford to buy healthcare vs paying a tax.

People need to calm down...

Now that all US citizens will be required to have healthcare, a man like Obama WILL bring in expanded medicare that everyone CAN afford. Or some form of government public option the poor can buy into.

And in the end, EVERYONE will have and can then afford healthcare. EVERYONE!!!!

You are speaking in mights. You should be speaking about what actually exists. The world might end in December of this year...