About the "war on drugs"

[SlowSpyder]

I think that asking the question “What would ending the war on drugs mean?”, leads to a rather fruitless discussion about our personal moral beliefs around that issue, in short, to discussion of our personal opinion of the social pros and cons evaluation of the social costs of drug policy. All well and good because it is public sentiment on various issues that influence and even drive elections. That fact, political use of the origin of the war on drugs as a tool to win elections has been noted by many and the dangers of that, the use of human fear of the other, what lies in our repressed feelings that the breakdown in self control offered by drugs might release.

But what we should really be talking about, in my opinion is why people take drugs in the first place and does understanding that issue on a personal level offer a different answer that might make the drug issue go away.

Why would anybody do anything to alter their conscious state, especially if it might cause addiction or have negative health effects.
How does the discussion change if we ask the question, “Why do people take drugs?”

Because it is my consciousness and I can do what I want with it. I am of the belief we only get one crazy trip in this thing called life, at least that's all we can count on, I'd like to experience things before the lights shut off. And with the reality of none of us are going to get out of this alive, none of us are going to live forever even through the best, most cautious of choices, people take risks and try and balance safety with daring, living a little and exploring what consciousness is and can be. It fascinates me to think one can take a simple chemical and completely alter the way in which you experience reality, how one as part of the universe experiences itself. That doesn't mean I am advocating for heroin or meth, but I think what one puts into their body is their choice and shouldn't necessarily be illegal.

Remember, it isn't an issue of "I'm far out, but rather you have never been anywhere." Your sig applies here.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

The first step is pretty simple: Legalize marijuana. It's harmless enough that I'm not concerned about people smoking whenever they want. People can grow their own, or buy regulated product in the store.

As for the harder stuff, the answer's not that straight forward. For all the talk of decriminalization, I'm wary of any legislation that might induce demand and funnel more money into the black market that's controlled by ruthless cartels and gangs.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

About 10 years ago I got really curious about "hard drugs" and did a bunch of reading on them. I don't remember much about meth, but I believe cocaine and heroin are not much worse than alcohol as far as toxicity and addiction go. Heroin does have a reputation of being much more addictive, but I don't know if that's been proven in research or is just a broad perception, alcohol addiction is probably much more prevalent than people realize since the addicts can feed their addictions much more easily.

Even if you don't want to fully legalize the "hard drugs" I think completely decriminalizing them and getting rid of drug interdiction funding would do a lot of good.

The addiction rate of heroin, cocaine and some others are higher than alcohol. Alcholol is more dangerous because of the number of people who become intoxicated and as it's legal it's not hidden and people will drink to excess and engage in risky behavior. No one gets Hep C from his bourbon but his liver might not love it in the long run. Meth and related drugs? A fucking nightmare that can screw your brain up forever. Decriminalization and treatment should be the standard of care.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Maybe the answer really is to just legalize everything and pour money into rehab and treatment. I know a couple people that work as beer reps. When Rep A tries to sell product at a bar that already gets beer from Rep B, Reb B doesn't have Rep A killed for muscling in on his turf. But that's exactly what happens in inner cities across the country between rival gangs.

 

[Moonbeam]

Because it is my consciousness and I can do what I want with it. I am of the belief we only get one crazy trip in this thing called life, at least that's all we can count on, I'd like to experience things before the lights shut off. And with the reality of none of us are going to get out of this alive, none of us are going to live forever even through the best, most cautious of choices, people take risks and try and balance safety with daring, living a little and exploring what consciousness is and can be. It fascinates me to think one can take a simple chemical and completely alter the way in which you experience reality, how one as part of the universe experiences itself. That doesn't mean I am advocating for heroin or meth, but I think what one puts into their body is their choice and shouldn't necessarily be illegal.

Remember, it isn't an issue of "I'm far out, but rather you have never been anywhere." Your sig applies here.

And I am supposed to sit by while you experience crashing into a bus load of children? Who should be responsible for paying for your ambulance ride if your exploratory trip causes you to stop breathing?

What drives this need to experience something different?

 

[Blackjack200]

What drives this need to experience something different?

Capitalism is at the root of a whole bunch of social pathologies that lead to depression, alienation, anxiety, hopelessness etc., and these drugs help people cope.

I'm not suggesting that a socialist society wouldn't have drug abuse, but I think it would be far less prevalent.

 

[SlowSpyder]

And I am supposed to sit by while you experience crashing into a bus load of children? Who should be responsible for paying for your ambulance ride if your exploratory trip causes you to stop breathing?

What drives this need to experience something different?

Of course not and I am not advocating for that. I've a big believer in personal responsibility. And if we can demonstrate a given substance causes too much risk to society, as you suggest above, then we can try and keep that substance banned. But right now the government has far too overreaching of a ban and far too harsh of penalties. Lives shouldn't be ruined, felons created, for someone smoking a joint or putting something in their bodies that causes no one else any loss of rights / liklihood of a loss of rights.

 

[nakedfrog]

And I am supposed to sit by while you experience crashing into a bus load of children? Who should be responsible for paying for your ambulance ride if your exploratory trip causes you to stop breathing?

What drives this need to experience something different?

Being human?
New restaurant opens up in town, a common reaction is "we should try that!"

 

[Moonbeam]

Being human?
New restaurant opens up in town, a common reaction is "we should try that!"

Being human sounds like a good answer but do we maybe also need to have some idea as to why we are that way. You and SlowSpider, it seems to me, have the expectation that new experiences, either in the form of an altered conscious state, or a new taste experience, are somehow going to be pleasurable, but there are lots of crappy restaurants and the lives of alcoholics and drug addicts don't seem to offer what I would call happiness. So is it human nature to seek pleasure and avoid pain and which do you think may propel most to take drugs? I believe that you can wire a monkey so it can stimulate the pleasure center of its brain and it will do so rather than eat. Shouldn't we offer that to any who want it?

The issue I am leading to is that in my opinion the war on drugs should really be about how to properly deal with human pain. I think that while some want to explore their own minds on drugs, most people take them to avoid pain, and that even in the first case there must be some reason why one seeks novelty, perhaps out of boredom or some sense that something is missing, that one is somehow incomplete. Understanding in this area is also part of what some real understanding of what it means to be human is all about, no?

 

[Vic]

Legalize cannabis nationwide. Decriminalize simple possession of other drugs and mandate treatment instead of jail time. Eliminate mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent drug crimes.

 

[Moonbeam]

Of course not and I am not advocating for that. I've a big believer in personal responsibility. And if we can demonstrate a given substance causes too much risk to society, as you suggest above, then we can try and keep that substance banned. But right now the government has far too overreaching of a ban and far too harsh of penalties. Lives shouldn't be ruined, felons created, for someone smoking a joint or putting something in their bodies that causes no one else any loss of rights / liklihood of a loss of rights.

I don't disagree with this, but this means keeping the war on drugs alive in some cases. If we are going to end the war on drugs we will have to find a way to bulletproof people against destructive use. I suggest the reason that conversations always focus on what I call superficials is because a real address of the problem will require a recognition and methodology to treat emotional pain, the one subject matter, I believe, from which all of humanity is running.

 

[Moonbeam]

Legalize cannabis nationwide. Decriminalize simple possession of other drugs and mandate treatment instead of jail time. Eliminate mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent drug crimes.

What if we just created a country where the attitude toward life came out like that of Sir Thomas Brown:

“I am the happiest man alive. I have that in me that can convert poverty to riches, adversity to prosperity, and I am more invulnerable than Achilles; Fortune hath not one place to hit me.”

 

[blackangst1]

Biden continues the war on drugs

Biden targets drug traffickers with new executive orders (msn.com) [The Hill]

 

[digiram]

You know what’s funny about drugs is the people I know that want to close the border because all of the bad hombres bringing drugs over are the ones shoving it all up their nose. Anyhow, decriminalize it all. Are we not capitalists?

 

[MrSquished]

You know what’s funny about drugs is the people I know that want to close the border because all of the bad hombres bringing drugs over are the ones shoving it all up their nose. Anyhow, decriminalize it all. Are we not capitalists?

This guy my friend was hanging with was doing rails of coke, but didn't want the vaccine because he didn't want to put that in his body

 

[digiram]

This guy my friend was hanging with was doing rails of coke, but didn't want the vaccine because he didn't want to put that in his body

My cousin and I were literally talking about spiking maga drugs with the vaccine or just tell them the vaccine will be paid for by the fed for non anti vaxxers only. 😂

 

[Lanyap]

Biden continues the war on drugs

Biden targets drug traffickers with new executive orders (msn.com) [The Hill]

I know you realize this already but your original post was interpreted as referring “the war on drugs” as it relates to localized users and dealers within the US. Your link to the Biden initiative refers to transnational trafficking of synthetic drugs. I doubt you will get a response here that disagrees with this initiative or agrees that fentanyl should be trafficked in from other countries into the US for consumption.

 

[HomerJS]

The first step is pretty simple: Legalize marijuana. It's harmless enough that I'm not concerned about people smoking whenever they want. People can grow their own, or buy regulated product in the store.

As for the harder stuff, the answer's not that straight forward. For all the talk of decriminalization, I'm wary of any legislation that might induce demand and funnel more money into the black market that's controlled by ruthless cartels and gangs.

Can't Biden do that with just removing pot from the controlled substance list? I don't think we need to pass a law.

 

[MrSquished]

I know you realize this already but your original post was interpreted as referring “the war on drugs” as it relates to localized users and dealers within the US. Your link to the Biden initiative refers to transnational trafficking of synthetic drugs. I doubt you will get a response here that disagrees with this initiative or agrees that fentanyl should be trafficked in from other countries into the US for consumption.

It's a terrible comparison he used.

Ending the war on drugs has more to do with not criminalizing users and addicts and instead treating it as a health and rehabilitative issue, reducing penalties for small time dealers and it does not mean not stopping major international drug traffickers.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Can't Biden do that with just removing pot from the controlled substance list? I don't think we need to pass a law.

I guess so. I made that post a few years ago. If it's that easy, that is better than relying on Congress, which won't get past Republicans.

 

[ch33zw1z]

It's a terrible comparison he used.

Ending the war on drugs has more to do with not criminalizing users and addicts and instead treating it as a health and rehabilitative issue, reducing penalties for small time dealers and it does not mean not stopping major international drug traffickers.

Yea, but how can he attack Biden then.

 

[IronWing]

It's a terrible comparison he used.

Ending the war on drugs has more to do with not criminalizing users and addicts and instead treating it as a health and rehabilitative issue, reducing penalties for small time dealers and it does not mean not stopping major international drug traffickers.

Doing the former should reduce the perceived need to do the latter. Going after major traffickers is the more expensive, most violent, least effective method of addressing the drug problem.

 

[MrSquished]

Doing the former should reduce the perceived need to do the latter. Going after major traffickers is the more expensive, most violent, least effective method of addressing the drug problem.

I still think we should target the international trafficking of certain drugs, like fentanyl, heroin no matter what. But not weed, ecstasy, cocaine.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I still think we should target the international trafficking of certain drugs, like fentanyl, heroin no matter what. But not weed, ecstasy, cocaine.

Changing how we address usage will make a huge dent in their profits. Legalizing MJ nation wide is a great start. Do the other next

 

[sportage]

If there is to be a war on drugs, that should include a war on alcohol, cigarettes, and one might toss in Hostess Twinkies and Hostess cup cakes because after all... sugar is a powerful drug too and it can and will kill people especially over excessive use i.e. causing obesity.

On second thought, just legalize it all because everyone does drugs in some form and when it comes to doing drugs, why ever bother if you can not be excessive about doing it. Which reminds me, time for my morning cocktail.