About the "war on drugs"

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
21,478
992
126
Many have called for the end to the war on drugs. I'm curious... What does that mean? What laws would be undone? What funding would stop?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
30,456
11,375
136
Many have called for the end to the war on drugs. I'm curious... What does that mean? What laws would be undone? What funding would stop?
For me the bare minimum would be the repeal of mandatory sentencing. The other would be reclassification of drugs and an actual treatment program. Plus more scrutiny on those that deal drugs legally and penalties for those that prescribe drugs outside of acceptable practice.

I'm sure that's not what most people think of when they say they support ending the war on drugs.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
81,395
14,513
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There was never a real war on drugs. Reagan just wanted to look tough. By the time the 80's rolled around everyone knew the cold war was in fact not a real war and the term was losing its luster. But wars are good for reelection so you gotta have a war on something.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
30,456
11,375
136
There was never a real war on drugs. Reagan just wanted to look tough. By the time the 80's rolled around everyone knew the cold war was in fact not a real war and the term was losing its luster. But wars are good for reelection so you gotta have a war on something.
He did indeed start a war, he increased sentences for convictions and made crack worse than cocaine from a legal perspective. He created mandatory minimum sentencing and it was under his watch that the CIA allowed cocaine and crack (in larger amounts than before) into the inner cities.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
3,912
2,451
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Many have called for the end to the war on drugs. I'm curious... What does that mean? What laws would be undone? What funding would stop?
-Decriminalization of all recreational drugs to outright legalization of all recreational drugs.

Taxes from drug sales used to fund treatment programs for addiction while surplus from taxes used to improve elements of American life that drive people to drug use in the first place.

Amnesty for non-violent elements of the black market drug trade to promote underworld to join the open society.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
81,395
14,513
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He did indeed start a war, he increased sentences for convictions and made crack worse than cocaine from a legal perspective. He created mandatory minimum sentencing and it was under his watch that the CIA allowed cocaine and crack (in larger amounts than before) into the inner cities.

Thats not war. Thats abuse of the justice system.
War is entirely different.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
21,478
992
126
For me the bare minimum would be the repeal of mandatory sentencing. The other would be reclassification of drugs and an actual treatment program. Plus more scrutiny on those that deal drugs legally and penalties for those that prescribe drugs outside of acceptable practice.

I'm sure that's not what most people think of when they say they support ending the war on drugs.
I think those are great first steps
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
998
126
Stop imprisoning people over what they put into their own bodies. Decrease police use of civil forfeiture in non-violent drug cases. Legalize marijuana at the federal level.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
107,525
23,403
146
re-task the DEA and their funding dollars towards boarder enforcement, largely pertaining to enforcing newly-decriminalized laws regarding MJ and other recreational drugs, such that illegal transport doesn't interfere with home-grown legalized, taxed, crops.

Or maybe enforce a 1000% tariff on imported recreational drugs.

I'm still not sure what to do with cocaine, heroin, meth, and their related drugs, but I think some kind of measured, controlled allowance for addicts while de-toxing. The money being spent on killing narcos and others would be better spent on taking care of our own addicts and getting them straightened out.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,669
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re-task the DEA and their funding dollars towards boarder enforcement, largely pertaining to enforcing newly-decriminalized laws regarding MJ and other recreational drugs, such that illegal transport doesn't interfere with home-grown legalized, taxed, crops.

Or maybe enforce a 1000% tariff on imported recreational drugs.

I'm still not sure what to do with cocaine, heroin, meth, and their related drugs, but I think some kind of measured, controlled allowance for addicts while de-toxing. The money being spent on killing narcos and others would be better spent on taking care of our own addicts and getting them straightened out.
You didn't mention psychedelics but I would put those on the same as recreational drugs with some use restriction.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,994
1,680
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I'm still not sure what to do with cocaine, heroin, meth, and their related drugs, but I think some kind of measured, controlled allowance for addicts while de-toxing. The money being spent on killing narcos and others would be better spent on taking care of our own addicts and getting them straightened out.
About 10 years ago I got really curious about "hard drugs" and did a bunch of reading on them. I don't remember much about meth, but I believe cocaine and heroin are not much worse than alcohol as far as toxicity and addiction go. Heroin does have a reputation of being much more addictive, but I don't know if that's been proven in research or is just a broad perception, alcohol addiction is probably much more prevalent than people realize since the addicts can feed their addictions much more easily.

Even if you don't want to fully legalize the "hard drugs" I think completely decriminalizing them and getting rid of drug interdiction funding would do a lot of good.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
998
126
About 10 years ago I got really curious about "hard drugs" and did a bunch of reading on them. I don't remember much about meth, but I believe cocaine and heroin are not much worse than alcohol as far as toxicity and addiction go. Heroin does have a reputation of being much more addictive, but I don't know if that's been proven in research or is just a broad perception, alcohol addiction is probably much more prevalent than people realize since the addicts can feed their addictions much more easily.

Even if you don't want to fully legalize the "hard drugs" I think completely decriminalizing them and getting rid of drug interdiction funding would do a lot of good.

Alcohol, as a drug, is far worse than much of what is illegal. It is physically and mentally addictive, harmful to the body, and very intoxicating. Using alcohol as a measuring stick, it is bonkers that most of what is illegal, is in fact illegal.
 
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rchunter

Senior member
Feb 26, 2015
933
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I smoke weed daily for medical reasons. Naturally i'd like it legal in my state but it's not a huge deal as long as I can drive into WA. and pick it up from a legal dispensary. It's only like an hour away.

Trying to buy on the black market is kind of a pain, I used to grow when I was living in AZ but it's really not worth the risk anymore since now I can just walk in and legally buy whatever I need.

As far as harder drugs being legal, I'd rather not have that happen.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
39,582
16,592
136
1) Full legalization of MJ. States required to adopt their own plans.

2) Decriminalization of all other drugs. Get people into rehab and not prisons. Spend more time and money on education. This is a public health issue not a criminal one.

3) Pardons and expungement for non-violent drug offenses. Elimination of mandatory minimum sentences and and clemency for people who were sentenced under them.

4) End interdiction efforts in Central/South America that have imposed an enormous cost in lives and prosperity to millions. Help governments regain and improve the rule of law which will increase stability.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
107,525
23,403
146
About 10 years ago I got really curious about "hard drugs" and did a bunch of reading on them. I don't remember much about meth, but I believe cocaine and heroin are not much worse than alcohol as far as toxicity and addiction go. Heroin does have a reputation of being much more addictive, but I don't know if that's been proven in research or is just a broad perception, alcohol addiction is probably much more prevalent than people realize since the addicts can feed their addictions much more easily.

Even if you don't want to fully legalize the "hard drugs" I think completely decriminalizing them and getting rid of drug interdiction funding would do a lot of good.
I think in terms of addictive potential, it goes nicotine > opiates > alcohol, or something like that. It can be quantified based on the way the substances re-wire your biochemistry, and the titration of each substance required to achieve that.

But yeah, alcohol is far, far, far more destructive than all of those, because it is not only much easier to kill a human with a single dose, but it is certainly easier to obtain because it is legal and can be found anywhere. The human body tends to adjust much easier to its effects (we pretty much evolved to tolerate alcohol, as a necessity to survive various diseases), and so it generally has a longer, more damaging affect on individuals across whatever population.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
21,478
992
126
I agree with the comments on alcohol. I think if it were introduced today it would be a class 3 drug. The one drug I havent seen mentioned is meth. I have enough knowledge on this to say it is far, far more addictive than nicotine, alcohol, or opiates. Its a terrible drug.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
998
126
I agree with the comments on alcohol. I think if it were introduced today it would be a class 3 drug. The one drug I havent seen mentioned is meth. I have enough knowledge on this to say it is far, far more addictive than nicotine, alcohol, or opiates. Its a terrible drug.
Yet it is a legal drug that millions of people take daily in the form of Adderall (and it may be mixed in other ADHD type drugs).
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
11,601
6,052
136
1) Full legalization of MJ. States required to adopt their own plans.

2) Decriminalization of all other drugs. Get people into rehab and not prisons. Spend more time and money on education. This is a public health issue not a criminal one.

3) Pardons and expungement for non-violent drug offenses. Elimination of mandatory minimum sentences and and clemency for people who were sentenced under them.

4) End interdiction efforts in Central/South America that have imposed an enormous cost in lives and prosperity to millions. Help governments regain and improve the rule of law which will increase stability.
This is pretty much where I stand. I've never touched drugs, and I don't even drink, but the current war on drugs only destroys people's lives.

I don't think I'd sign up for being able to walk into a 7-11 and buying herion legally though, gotta keep that in the back.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
11,601
6,052
136
I think in terms of addictive potential, it goes nicotine > opiates > alcohol, or something like that. It can be quantified based on the way the substances re-wire your biochemistry, and the titration of each substance required to achieve that.

But yeah, alcohol is far, far, far more destructive than all of those, because it is not only much easier to kill a human with a single dose, but it is certainly easier to obtain because it is legal and can be found anywhere. The human body tends to adjust much easier to its effects (we pretty much evolved to tolerate alcohol, as a necessity to survive various diseases), and so it generally has a longer, more damaging affect on individuals across whatever population.
This is my biggest fear of legalization. Huge chunks of the population abuse alcohol because it is socially acceptable, cheap, easy to get, and has insane marketing budgets behind it. If the same happened with the harder drugs I think we'd end up much worse off. That is why I support decriminalization of recreational users, but not legalization.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
21,478
992
126
I think this ties into another very large and important issue, mental health. So many people use to mask mental illness, and here in 2018 it is still a taboo subject. Tell your co-workers youre bi-polar and I guarantee they'll slowly back away from you. And to add to that, treatment options are abysmal.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,994
1,680
126
Yet it is a legal drug that millions of people take daily in the form of Adderall (and it may be mixed in other ADHD type drugs).
Amphetamine is not the same thing as methamphetamine.

"Chemically, methamphetamine and amphetamines have very similar structures. There is one small structural difference that allows meth to enter your brain more quickly than an amphetamine can. This means that for anyone abusing meth, the rush or the high comes on more quickly and more intensely. This makes meth more susceptible to abuse, more addictive and more dangerous."

https://www.clarityway.com/blog/whats-difference-methamphetamine-amphetamines/
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
998
126
Amphetamine is not the same thing as methamphetamine.

"Chemically, methamphetamine and amphetamines have very similar structures. There is one small structural difference that allows meth to enter your brain more quickly than an amphetamine can. This means that for anyone abusing meth, the rush or the high comes on more quickly and more intensely. This makes meth more susceptible to abuse, more addictive and more dangerous."

https://www.clarityway.com/blog/whats-difference-methamphetamine-amphetamines/

I know what methamphetamine / amphetamines are, but I was wrong about it being an ingredient in Adderall. I thought it was one of the different amphetamines in Adderall, but I guess it is not. My bad there.

But, to my point, it is a schedule II drug meaning it has medical use and can be prescribed. The federal government schedules meth as a II and cannabis as a I. It just doesn't make sense.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
68,628
4,591
126
I think that asking the question “What would ending the war on drugs mean?”, leads to a rather fruitless discussion about our personal moral beliefs around that issue, in short, to discussion of our personal opinion of the social pros and cons evaluation of the social costs of drug policy. All well and good because it is public sentiment on various issues that influence and even drive elections. That fact, political use of the origin of the war on drugs as a tool to win elections has been noted by many and the dangers of that, the use of human fear of the other, what lies in our repressed feelings that the breakdown in self control offered by drugs might release.

But what we should really be talking about, in my opinion is why people take drugs in the first place and does understanding that issue on a personal level offer a different answer that might make the drug issue go away.

Why would anybody do anything to alter their conscious state, especially if it might cause addiction or have negative health effects.
How does the discussion change if we ask the question, “Why do people take drugs?”
 

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